Incoming Update

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Snarfy
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by Snarfy »

Hoihe wrote:If you lower the level cap, you lower the range of customization available both for the sake of multiclassing and prcs

Not everyone goes for single class or classic builds.

Wizard shadowdancer on anything but tiefling/moon/sun elf/drow will be impossible.

Assassin will be impossible to properly use.
+1. Thank you.
Rhifox wrote:I'm not sure why having the full 10 levels in them is necessary? DnD games are not based around playing only with maximized builds. Hell, BG will be the first NWN server I've played on where I can actually expect/will maximize my build. I'm used to servers with a level 15 soft cap where the idea of maximizing your planned build is something that is likely to be attained until far in the future.
Thanks for ducking the question! :lol: Heck, I'll just answer it myself! As an example of why we should never bring up the subject of lowering the level cap ever again, here's what someone who wants to try out the Archmage PRC will face:
Requirements:
Cross Class: Must be Arcane Scholar, Frost Mage, Pale Master, Red Wizard, Harper agent, Blood Magus, Sorcerer, or Wizard.
Race: Any
Alignment: Any.
Skills: Spellcraft 15 ranks, Lore 15.
Feats: Skill Focus Spellcraft and Two spell focus feats of any school (but not the same school), Once you have the two spell focus feats you will be given a qualifying feat for archmage. You still need to get Skill focus Spellcraft however.
Spellcasting: Able to cast 7th-circle arcane spells.
Given the skill requirements alone, and under a level 15 cap, the most levels anyone will ever be able to take in the Archmage PRC is a whopping three. That's it, that's all. You might as well throw that one in the trash. I could go on and on but... meeehhh, I don't want to, and I don't think I need to. :P
Steve wrote:
Steve wrote:I'll bet a small donation to the Server it will be in a few days! :D

Any takers?!?
My suggestion and question was much more exciting...and realistic!! :shock:
It really was! Soooo... how about that update? Sounds exciting. *rolls a 4 bluff*
There are no level 30's, only level 20's with benefits...
Calantyr
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by Calantyr »

Is a changelog of the patch posted somewhere? I've been looking over the forums for the last two days and I can't find anything, except some mention of pommel bash being added.
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Saerin Hrathan - Thing Knower, Ysrai Rikharr - Gray Wolf Uthgardt Warrior
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mrm3ntalist
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by mrm3ntalist »

Calantyr wrote:Is a changelog of the patch posted somewhere? I've been looking over the forums for the last two days and I can't find anything, except some mention of pommel bash being added.
Its such a big update, that even the changelog needs a lot of work :D

Lets give Duster some breathing room to make the update happen, then we can have the changelog
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Rhifox
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by Rhifox »

Snarfy wrote:Given the skill requirements alone, and under a level 15 cap, the most levels anyone will ever be able to take in the Archmage PRC is a whopping three.
I don't see the issue, and I would still take it on a character I had Archmage planned for.
Calantyr wrote:Is a changelog of the patch posted somewhere? I've been looking over the forums for the last two days and I can't find anything, except some mention of pommel bash being added.
http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?p=634487#p634487
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Snarfy
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by Snarfy »

Rhifox wrote:
Snarfy wrote:Given the skill requirements alone, and under a level 15 cap, the most levels anyone will ever be able to take in the Archmage PRC is a whopping three.
I don't see the issue, and I would still take it on a character I had Archmage planned for.
... huh. Well, at least there's one of you who would. ....?? :? heh. Personally speaking, I'd rather have the availability to explore a class or PRC to it's fullest potential. But maybe that's just me.
Calantyr wrote:Is a changelog of the patch posted somewhere? I've been looking over the forums for the last two days and I can't find anything, except some mention of pommel bash being added.
I believe you're looking for this, Calantyr... *shifty-eyes left and right, then crawls back under his bridge*
AlwaysSummer Day wrote:PATCH NOTES RELEASED
*All loot removed to reduce forum posts
*Jedi Knight released as PRC - requires 20 levels of spirit shaman to take
*Game will now take place in Cormyr
*Microtransactions added in line with new Pay2Win model
*Guards now turn hostile if ooc "///" is detected
*DM is now an elected position requiring 2/3rds of Sshamath Citizens to appoint
*Horses added as Paladin special ability at level 31
*Nihm has been resurrected
*Deacon is now the only character allowed to use magic missile
*Bards and Favored souls are now the favored class of all races to reflect RP
*Drinking will now cause 1d20 words in each sentence to be randomized
*Dwarves are immune to this
*20d1 words dwarves say will be randomized
*Spellplague is now active
*Master Chief Petty Officer John 117's armor appearence is now in game
*Server will now actively DDoS back in retaliation
*Storm of Vengeance now requires you to stick a fork in the nearest outlet first
*Ulgoths beard has been shaved
*Gamespy is now a raidable dungeon
( Seriously, like Ivan said, best post of 2016... maybe even the best post of all time! *wipes tears away*)
There are no level 30's, only level 20's with benefits...
chad878262
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by chad878262 »

The new Hierophant class (included in the upcoming release) requires ability to cast level 7 spells...so you can't take it until level 14... Yeah, level 15 cap isn't likely.
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nezzerscape
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by nezzerscape »

So I have played and am playing on servers with lower hard caps and have lower soft caps still.

They are very fun indeed and it gives the staff a range of monsters that are too powerful to solo (independent of build).

But here is the few things necessary for them to work:
1) The cap needs to be in place day 1 (or have a server wipe, but no one’s happy with that)
2) Items / equipment / income needs to adjusted for it.
3) If possible adjusted / create new classes to provide enough variation.

Also note soft caps are problematic for they alienate those that are unable to play as often.

I do not see BG (or any server) lower the cap without losing / pissing off a bunch of great players. Let’s be honest people IRL have put a lot of energy into their characters.

My suggestion to the staff is before looking at this type of thing, add level 35 content and allow one to delevel on XP loss due to death. I would go as far as to say loss of gold too. While it makes sense to lose items on death that would upset too many. Gold and XP are things we as players can make up.

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Calantyr
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by Calantyr »

Rhifox wrote:
Calantyr wrote:Is a changelog of the patch posted somewhere? I've been looking over the forums for the last two days and I can't find anything, except some mention of pommel bash being added.
http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?p=634487#p634487
Cheers, I wasn't sure if it was outdated. I like how languages may become more relevant.
Calantyr Thantos - Wandering Sellsword, Helaeya Tor - Accidental Warlock
Saerin Hrathan - Thing Knower, Ysrai Rikharr - Gray Wolf Uthgardt Warrior
Vicaeria Keniryn - Unsheathed Blade, Rikvi Stalvaskr - Falling Paladin
Rhaeya Koadessin - Netherese Survivor, Thokk - THOKK SMASH!
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Rhifox
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by Rhifox »

Snarfy wrote:
Rhifox wrote:
Snarfy wrote:Given the skill requirements alone, and under a level 15 cap, the most levels anyone will ever be able to take in the Archmage PRC is a whopping three.
I don't see the issue, and I would still take it on a character I had Archmage planned for.
... huh. Well, at least there's one of you who would. ....?? :? heh. Personally speaking, I'd rather have the availability to explore a class or PRC to it's fullest potential. But maybe that's just me.
It's not just you. I'm the outlier, from what I have seen in my time here.

I certainly like to get more levels in the classes I pick. It's fun to get more toys. I just don't feel I need to have them all to play the character. I create a character and then pick the classes that fit that character, rather than vice versa. The mechanics are nice, but they're an afterthought next to the flavor of the class, for me. For me the main benefit of the Archmage class is, well, being an Archmage.

As I said in a previous post, I'm personally not asking for the server to change the cap, nor would I expect it to. I'm just debating personal preferences.
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flyingchair
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by flyingchair »

Rhifox wrote:
It's not just you. I'm the outlier, from what I have seen in my time here.

I certainly like to get more levels in the classes I pick. It's fun to get more toys. I just don't feel I need to have them all to play the character. I create a character and then pick the classes that fit that character, rather than vice versa. The mechanics are nice, but they're an afterthought next to the flavor of the class, for me. For me the main benefit of the Archmage class is, well, being an Archmage.

As I said in a previous post, I'm personally not asking for the server to change the cap, nor would I expect it to. I'm just debating personal preferences.
I think for something like that to be succesful, it needs to be like that from the start of the server, the moment players put time enough into making several epic level characters its no longer a realistic goal, especially not with all the content on the server thats made for epics.
Very Chairish.

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Rhifox
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by Rhifox »

Yes. Deleveling people who have already leveled, or wiping a server, is terrible and should not be done. Caps are a fun thing to discuss on a theoretical level, but BG is a 30-cap server and there should be no expectations or demands for that to change.
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thids
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by thids »

Introducing a level 15 cap on a server like BG would require ridiculous amounts of work. From re-balancing the environment to re-balancing the classes and items.

Hoihe, what you are looking for is some kind of roleplaying system that's not D&D. Preferably one without classes and with unlimited amounts of unrestricted skills.
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MopKnight
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by MopKnight »

DnD 3.5 isn't a good system past level 15ish. Most of the balance issues we see are primarily due to overdependence on multiclassing and the marginalisation of the d20 roll for randomisation.

DnD 5 is far more random and unstable than 3.5, at any level and as such is a far, far better system for ensuring a lack of dominance of classes or specific builds, even though it is still entirely possible to powerbuild.

Generally, the smaller the difference between a level 1 and a level 20 (meaning a mob of level 1s can deal with a 20), the better the system. You can't do that in 3.5 no matter what level cap you have in.

Moving towards 5 in general would actually be a great move and I'd love to see how feasible it would be.
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Invoker
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by Invoker »

MopKnight wrote:DnD 3.5 isn't a good system past level 15ish. Most of the balance issues we see are primarily due to overdependence on multiclassing and the marginalisation of the d20 roll for randomisation.
I don't think there is an overdependence on multiclassing, as many classes are powerhouses even when pure (Paladin, Ranger, Warlock, Cleric, Wizard, Monk, Druid and Bard make for truly excellent pure characters, pretty much on par with any and all powerbuilds you can create). I'd say it's a mixed bag, at that.

I personally view the marginalization of the random aspect of combat a positive thing, allowing great plays instead of making literally everything a matter of luck. Coupled with the incontrovertible fact that everything added in game has counterplay, it makes for a healthy game environment where your skill floor remains very low, and the skill ceiling is higher than your version (basically, characters become stronger as players do).
DnD 5 is far more random and unstable than 3.5, at any level and as such is a far, far better system for ensuring a lack of dominance of classes or specific builds, even though it is still entirely possible to powerbuild.
We really don't have such a dominance in BGTSCC. A great many characters and character concepts do exceedingly well here. Instability just diminishes the good player's weight on the game, which on NWN2 (excluding PvP, which is however irrelevant) is significative.
Generally, the smaller the difference between a level 1 and a level 20 (meaning a mob of level 1s can deal with a 20), the better the system. You can't do that in 3.5 no matter what level cap you have in.
I view this as intentional. As example, you can take the Lord of the Rings universe: Thranduil won't be killed by simple orcs...no matter how many they are. In the last Hobbit movie, he charges alone in the middle of their army across a bridge, and by the end of it, he had a few piles of corpses around him. That's what a NWN2 character can represent, if its player wants: someone far beyond "commoners'" league.
Moving towards 5 in general would actually be a great move and I'd love to see how feasible it would be.
I respect your opinion, and maybe it would be.

It's just not the way I want to play this game, and not the way NWN2 was created.
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Lockonnow
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Re: Incoming Update

Unread post by Lockonnow »

if you build a class that is a RP you focus on then it is you need skills point not a powerbuild
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