Should the quests be considered OOC?

[tfunke]

I don't get this post?
What's the point in having quests at all, if they are done only in OOC?

I never claimed to be great at roleplaying, but I'd often incorporate my quests into my roleplay, otherwise... what else am I suppose to do? To me, it was always an easy excuse to go somewhere too. I prefer my roleplay to be centered around combat. Want to go fight some orcs at level 10ish? Get the orc head quest and find others around my level who are willing to help me in my endeavor... etc etc.

I've been back, building the past month, and was speaking with Duster recently about maybe focusing solely on (new) quests. Sadly though, this post makes me think twice about doing that.


EDIT: I don't think I've ever done the hilltop ruins quests in the early stages of the game and NOT had others doing it through roleplay. I wonder if it could be a server cultural thing? As people get higher in level, they take quests less seriously?

[Zanniej]

I don't get this post?
What's the point in having quests at all, if they are done only in OOC?

I never claimed to be great at roleplaying, but I'd often incorporate my quests into my roleplay, otherwise... what else am I suppose to do? To me, it was always an easy excuse to go somewhere too. I prefer my roleplay to be centered around combat. Want to go fight some orcs at level 10ish? Get the orc head quest and find others around my level who are willing to help me in my endeavor... etc etc.

I've been back, building the past month, and was speaking with Duster recently about maybe focusing solely on (new) quests. Sadly though, this post makes me think twice about doing that.


EDIT: I don't think I've ever done the hilltop ruins quests in the early stages of the game and NOT had others doing it through roleplay. I wonder if it could be a server cultural thing? As people get higher in level, they take quests less seriously?

The primary point is that the quests point you in a certain direction, and can be repeated even when it makes no sense.

I think two ways to tackle this point would be:

• Let the rewards stay the same, but make people able to make choices based on their general RP / alignment. Now you're forced into being good if you want the most XP out of a quest (and XP makes the world go round).
• Give quests a logical reason to be repeatable, or make sure they're not repeatable.

The issue is that there are reasons to not consider the quests as IC (as mentioned above), as you cripple yourself by doing so. Sure, I try to make up reasons IC to do the quests. But it's quite weird for a greedy person to say no to coin, because then I get more XP.

[Duster47]

Sure, I try to make up reasons IC to do the quests. But it's quite weird for a greedy person to say no to coin, because then I get more XP.

As I mentioned before, many of the quests with different pay-outs used to have a one-point alignment shift associated with a lower XP earned. These were stripped out ages ago leaving the (often poor) IC-wise choices.

It would be great to go through all of the quests and update the dialog's for the PCs to have more neutral-ish options. Unfortunately, there are 50+ of them, the work is extrodinarily tedious, and as noted here, a big chunk of the player just blast through the choices based on muscle memory. Hardly an incentive for someone to take on the task as Tfunke mentioned above.

[Steve]

Is it possible to randomize the "reward" of doing Quests? Or does it have to be static, scripted? Can Quests also provide an item(s), like Chests?

The work to "fix" quests would be more rewarding if:

A) the quests became "universal" in regard to IC choices during the Dialogue.
B) the quests "payed out" something more than just coin/XP.
C) the quests were made level restrictive (like Lizard Eggs), one time affairs, better "pay out," and their current XP gain-per-week was balanced out by increasing the daily allotment gain of RP XP (not the cap atm, but maybe later?!).

I once did offered to fix/make-more-relevant the Halfling's Lost Key quest, but Luna explained to me that quests would no longer be changed/updated after the Troll Hide quest borking fiasco.

Has this view now changed?

[Grimdark Hitman]

I think burbles illustrated the point well of quests manifesting a redundancy that messes with our suspension of disbelief. To me roleplaying the quests destroys the integrity of the setting, and I don't think it is a nice way to treat people; imposing your RP on them for doing the imp quest on a paladin or layman, for instance.

Having said that, I'd be happy ridding ourselves of the quests (I usually only did two quests regularly anyway).

[Snarfy]

Unfortunately, there are 50+ of them, the work is extrodinarily tedious, and as noted here, a big chunk of the player just blast through the choices based on muscle memory. Hardly an incentive for someone to take on the task as Tfunke mentioned above.

Sounds like a lot of unnecessary work to me. Even if it could be managed, you can bet your bottom dollar that many players would just continue to treat quests OOC'ly.

Having said that, I'd be happy ridding ourselves of the quests (I usually only did two quests regularly anyway).

I do quests on my 8 alts rather religiously, and I also would be perfectly fine with the abolition of quests... as long as we're given an alternate means of gaining the lost xp that doesn't require us to grind like madmen. Arbitrarily removing the quests without offering an alternative means of gaining this XP, which should ideally be a boost to RP experience, will do nothing but hamstring players who prefer utilizing quests over grinding to progress/level up their characters.

I can only speak for myself here, but when the server has a low turn out, or the majority of characters online are "IC'ly" (*laugh*) satisfying their genocidal urges(grinding), or rp'ing behind closed doors, I tend to quest. Removing the quests would pretty much wipe out my desire to level up any more characters(unless the RP xp was given a kick in the pants, that is).

I tolerate people doing quests out-of-characterly because this is a game. As do most other players.

That said: tolerance is not an invincible shield.

I feel that other players and NPCs may challenge you on your presence somewhere, particularly if they alluded to the fact that they were following you, or otherwise involving you in on-going roleplay. Regardless of whether you had an AFK sign up.

In the past we have treated PvP and rumor mongering due to quests that way. Live and let live. I'd follow precedent on that.

Well said.

[Grimdark Hitman]

Don't mean to steer the convo but I do intend to dredge up some remnant of will to pontificate my point here with my fat mouth... after trying out a few other servers, I've noticed gaining levels here is enormously slower.

If we made it to where leveling-up was beared more "fruit"; then that alone compensates for the tragic disappearance of the Quests and all their "contributive realism" the nazgul-forked tongues speak of.

[NegInfinity]

Last time I played (it has been quite a while ago), it was supposed to be a RP server. Meaning, that quests and everything you do should be IC, including quests.

Which means, if you want to enter cities, don't play Gray Orcs, and if you want to help the imp, do not play good. This is the price to pay for playing your character, in the same way where ECL race will gimp all your combat xp. Arguably, doing BG quests as a race banned from cities would be godmodding the guards.

If the quests are treated as OOC means of getting xp, they should be removed from the world and be replaced by some other OOC means of gaining xp, that doesn't interfere with the game world.

I remember proposing a weekly xp stipend, proposition was shot down.
I also remember proposing permadeath feat that would increase your xp gain (or just keep giving xp at regular intervals), but would permanently delete your char after X death, that was shot down too.

Yet here we go again, people are complaining about XP problems, not roleplay, yet stubbornly object removing RP xp cap, implementing XP stipend, boosting combat xp, or doing pretty much anything that could possibly improve the situation.

This kind of community behavior still doesn't make sense to me.

[Grimdark Hitman]

If I just had one character actively played and didn't have a job; then sure.... I would not be concerned about the XP-rate gain. A system that incentivizes alternative characters, or playing several at once leads to better RP IMO (added perk: people don't get so attached to their characters, and can see things clearly).

[Rhifox]

Here's what I would like to see:

Make quests one time only.

For weekly exp gain, just expand the fishing system. Right now the fishing system is an exp-gain that gives most benefit to Survival-oriented characters. Why not duplicate the system with some slight changes to the dialogue/skill checks/locations to account for other skills?

Some examples:

• Spell research/crafting/practice that is more successful with higher Spellcraft. Must be done in mage towers/near magic workbenches.
• Singing/entertaining that is more successful with higher Perform. Must be done in taverns/theaters.
• Meditation/prayer that is more successful with higher Concentration. Must be done in temples/monasteries.
• Reading/researching, more successful with higher Lore. Must be done in libraries.
• Exercise/gymnastics, more successful with higher Tumble. Must be done in training areas.
• Etc.

Have some use up component/reward objects like fishing does, while others don't require using any components but don't reward anything other than exp.

I'd also remove the cap-per-reset. As has been said elsewhere, there's no cap on daily grinding, so there shouldn't be a cap on RP activities. If people want to level by doing the things their characters are actually skilled at, they should be allowed to.

[Steve]

A number of DMs and Staff commented here, but I'm thinking no real Guidelines have been established.

[Synthnine]

I did imp quest on every single one of my good and neutral aligned characters, and I refuse rewards for quests if it means higher xp income on all of my evil characters. I do not care in the slightest if someone views me as a "lesser" roleplayer because of this. This is the BG system of gaining xp in epic levels, and I play along.

I agree here. However, I think situationally if you are with a group of buddies doing a quest it could be considered IC if you want it to be. I've seen a lot of good characters do the imp quest for example as others have mentioned, which really makes me want to suggest it should be OOC.

[DM Golem]

As it stands, it is open to players to treat individual quests their own characters undertake as IC; alternatively they can treat the quests as OOC. As an exception to this, when undertaking quests in settlements in which they would not be permitted (Baldur's Gate, Ulgoth's Beard, and "uncivlised" orcs in Nashkel and Beregost), Grey Orcs must use an AFK tag, not interact IC within the settlement and keep the time spent there to a minimum.

Please note this is a temporary ruling, to account for the fact that currently there is unfair access to quests across the alignment spectrum and for the various races.

We understand some of the quests seem strange to be repeatable. This can be put in the same box as travelling hundreds of miles in a few transitions, and the mass slaughter of grinding/levelling up - a concession to the game world.

The staff is looking for ways to to revamp the various quests available throughout the world, subject to a space and willing bodies in the development window. The goal would be to make access to quests fairer and remove the need for any OOC questing or use of AFK tags. We're also brainstorming ways to revise the nature of quests to make them easier to understand in IC terms. This quest review, however, is a large task and is a project for the post update period.