On Avoiding 'Thought Projection' in RP Emotes

[Grimcheese]

We had the exact same discussion almost a year ago.

While I'm definitely for avoiding overt telepathy in descriptions (usually if I do it, it's for a DM's benefit), and I'd like people to at least work towards writing more towards "show, don't tell", we should also let bygones be bygones and not use this topic to start dictating how others should RP.

Great RP doesn't come in a day, after all.

[ragnarok1983]

Devil's advocate:

If the character does not emote "Looks at the strange warrior apprehensively." How will your character have the opportunity to use wisdom/spot/sense motive?

Also, sometimes it's easier to just *project* than it is to more accurately describe every single facial movement and nuance in speech/movement/posture.

Nobody wants to read/type five paragraphs about subtle muscular contractions, when you can just cut to the chase of "... she clearly feels uncomfortable around the diseased prostitute."

[ragnarok1983]

I... Now see that my thoughts are echoes of previous posts. Sorry for the redundancy.

*hangs his head in shame, then shuffles off to work like Milton, had someone taken his Swingline stapler.*

[JCVD1]

The only moment such OOC emotes should be used, is with friends/friendly people, and in silly emotes.

It brings nothing to the RP to express your ooc or your untold PC's opinion about my/any character, other than YOU wanting to point out something OOCly.

[Duster47]

It brings nothing to the RP to express your ooc or your untold PC's opinion about my/any character, other than YOU wanting to point out something OOCly.

Ages ago my Valqis, who "talqs Similar to tlhiS" due to her very thick accent, was countered with an emote along the lines of: *Sits there flustered because he cannot understand a damned word that foreign girl is saying*. IC-wise, I ignored it because there was no way Valqis could know she was not being understood.

To the OP's point, reiterated by JCVD1's quote, and IMHO, it would be much better for all, IC-wise, if the flustered player/PC shared something like, *Flustered tone* "Sorry, girl but damned if I can understand a work you're saying." Now she knows she is not being understood and may try to resolve the problem. If it is an OOC complaint, then... sorry, I'm RPing here.

If your PC does not want to say anything, then simply emote, *Flustered gaze toward the (foreign) girl*. This gives me/my-PC an IC-opening to productively respond. "Foreign" is optional depending on how many persons are in the immediate area who could believe the emote is directed towards them. Could just as easily substitute with something visually specific, such as what the target PC is wearing (e.g. blue dress).

[Dreme]

I do agree with you in some regards Steve .. There is a bit of thought projection used now and then.. It is not a problem when among friends who might not mind, but it can become a bad habit when it crosses into the open community..

Others here have their points too.. It mostly depends on how thought projection is used. In cases where it is used to explain a number of very complex and detailed facial expressions your character might make to get the point across, thought projection is better than spending a lot of time trying to explain your character's expression in such detail. The other options are to A) Over dramatize your expression... This would get the point across without listing a number of subtle facial/body movements. B) Spend a minute typing up an emote to express all of the slight expressions your character is making in response to something, only to have the moment pass before you hit the enter key.. The moment is gone, the situation has changed, and you only just not expressed your character's reaction to something a minute old... Not to mention, there's a time and place for everything, and a duchal court is no place for a wall of text! Not from emotes of everyone anyway.. Let the wall of text come from those speaking, not the crowd watching.. Also over emoting your expressions ends up taking away from the flow of things.. You lose the whole point of the emote somewhere in the wall of text...

I could make more points for thought projection but I will stop there.. Sometimes it is okay.. I think most of us can agree on that.. But I will say that sometimes it is used incorrectly as Steve points out...

When it is used to express your feelings or thoughts towards someone in ways that can't possible be emoted without using sign language.. It is being taken too far... I think it is nice to have this conversation... Unfortunately, because of the way the OP came off combined with the timing, I think some might be getting the feeling that it is aimed at them, or some personal attack.. I don't know Steve's thoughts, since thought projection doesn't happen IRL, but I don't think this is his intent.. Maybe I am naive but I think he just saw something and decided he wanted to talk about it.. which is cool.

Anyway.. ranted long enough.. My two copper pieces.. Hope it helps.

[Uther3867]

i am guilty of this sometimes, mostly it's when i lack the words to show the proper emotion, like when your trying to convey that your being annoyed but the typed words don't bring on the tone that you are.

[Steve]

I think we all are guilty of it, myself included.

And like JVCD mentioned, it can be fun and be appropriate to do this in private and with friends...though, that alone may make it difficult—more difficult than we need to make our RP efforts—in separating the "correct" situations in which to do/not do it.

Like I said in the OP, I don't want to call anyone out on this in particular, because often it is simply unconscious behavior. However, though unconscious and therefore tolerable in most instances, when it is exactly done on purpose, in order to subjugate the Other PC to your PC's description or to "paint" the Other in your PC's internal thought terms, THAT is, I think, something we can all learn to consciously avoid.

So I hope no hard feelings from anyone finding themselves offended.

[Passiflora]

Guys.

One way to go, which would please our Steves and ourselves at the same time, would be this way.


Doesn't like the wine? here:

Randall frowns after taking a sip of the bottle he just opened, 'as if he really disliked it'. "Bweah!" He says.

Doesn't respect the guy?

When the beast lays his eyes upon the man standing in front, he looks at him 'as if he was a pile of crap'. "Ye're so ugly even yer mom can't look at ye."


See? That's projection of one's mind, BUT, you never impose it on other PCs. It's always 'as if', but it might not really be that. It's just a summarisation of the character's facial expression, but it might be decieving.

[Tsidkenu]

Yes, a good point Passi. I think it's important to preface well thought out 'thought projections' with such conditional words/phrases as:

"...as though..."
"...as if..."
"...seemingly..."
"...apparently..."

Obviously there are other kinds of these 'thought emotes' which both Steve and Dagesh have mentioned that irk me just as much as they irk Steve but, as others have already said, they can simply be ignored entirely.