How many Areas currently on BGTSCC?

[Steve]

Does anyone have the total number of Areas available to PCs — not DM Areas — both on the Surface and in the UD?

If that information is not, like, totally sitting on your Desktop waiting just for this question to be asked, does anyone have a good idea about how to find that out without attempting to travel the entire Server and manually count?! Like, can I uncompress a certain .hak and find all the areas listed there?

[illithid]

That would include DM areas and guild halls too

[Steve]

Alright, I counted up and subtracted extraneous files and what I've come up with are:

Surface: 214 areas
Underdark: 57
DM: 72

I have to parse the names better, because what I'm really interested in is how many Surface and Underdark areas contain mobs, i.e., places used for gaining XP (excluding fishing).

Anyone want to challenge those numbers?

[Duster47]

For what it is worth, there are about a dozen client-side area files (.trx) and ten haks (bg_pi_*.hak) that are no longer used. This is from my consolidating areas and haks and/or deleting obsolete content.

[Steve]

For what it is worth, there are about a dozen client-side area files (.trx) and ten haks (bg_pi_*.hak) that are no longer used. This is from my consolidating areas and haks and/or deleting obsolete content.

A ha! Those are probably what are bloating those .zip files I made for when the Autodownloader chokes!!

[Steve]

My rough count:

68 Surface Areas in which mobs occur
(I've counted some areas, like Durlag's or Cloakwood Mines, as a single Area for this, though it may contain multiple area maps).

37 Underdark Areas in which mobs occur
(very few Areas were combined into a single value)

What I'm getting at here:

While I do my RL job, I've been thinking of the BGTSCC recurring issue of gaining Experience—via the acquisition of XP points—and the general disconnect between having to RP for it, or Grind for it...and the speed to which it seems mostly unsatisfactorily gained, by most Players. Or, I could be wrong on this, and it is just the most vocal Players!!

Anyway, I think we can generally agree that Grinding in general is less focused toward Role-play, and more focused to Level acquisition, which is often argued supports Role-play...eventually...based on Player need and preference. However! What most Players seem to universally care to experience is a sense of Story, both in the general experience of BGTSCC, but also in the particular experience of their PC's path to ultimate Experience gain (this being mechanically based statement, since many—though not all—have reached Lvl 30 with their PCs and those PCs still need plenty to learn ( ) and continue to gain "experience" through Role-play means). But I have to state there: that factor cannot be gauged, at least, like the Lvl 30-requires-X number of Points-to-reach-X-power level. Etc etc.

Why I started counting Areas is that it occurred to me that one alternative to Grinding for XP, is to base Leveling off of Actual Experience, as it pertains to the Server as it exists.

In short: Levels 1–10 require a single "token" to advance each level. That is 10 Tokens. Levels 11–20 require two Tokens to advance each level. That is 20 Tokens. Levels 21–30 require three Tokens to advance each level. That is 30 Tokens.

All in all, the advancement from Level 1 to 30, would require 50 Tokens. Where are the Tokens coming from? 2 sources. The first source would be from reaching the End Point of an Area. Completed Hill Top ruins by reaching the wyrm? Automatically gain 1 token. Take that Token to a "Training NPC." Receive that particular Level. For example: if Hilltop Ruins are rated CR 8, then that particular Token grants Lvl 8.

The second source would be DM granted-for-Story-development Tokens. Maybe these count as half-value Tokens? However, for the Player, it could go something like this: develop and carry out a Player-initiated Storyline, document it or enact an effect both or separately via the Forums and IG, and just like the DMs evaluate and grant/deny Player Requests, the PC/Player can be rewarded a "Storyline Token" for the time and investment in...wait for it...Role-play.

So essentially, my idea here is to create 2 somewhat simple forms for Game Play: the adventuring-experience where each "successful" journey can lead to a direct gain of Experience; the non-adventuring-experience can lead to a direct gain of Experience. They have equal value!

The great thing is a Player can do both, and...Grinding for XP goes the way of the dinosaur (in RL) and Players are encouraged to travel the Entire Server (as must as can be directed) to gain Experience, and Leveling can actually be attributed to something gained/learned, over mindless killing and implausible repetitiveness.

This is the Working Idea, in brief form. There are many issues still to work out.

Like:

- Can XP via killing mobs be turned off?
- 68 Surface Areas exist, 50 Tokens needed for full advancement. Are there enough Areas in various CR ranges to spread evenly (?) for interesting/appropriate Level advancement? Can a Token be scripted to only grant a certain Level?
- Would Leveling be then far too fast? Could a Lvl 30 PC do an assisted "walk-through" of all the Areas with another newbie PC and have that newbie gain all the required 50 Tokens for advancement?
- How would Death—namely Fugue death—affect or not-affect this process?
- What can be gained be revisiting an Area after gaining its Token? How would that affect Loot?
- How can it be made more exciting, with additional challenges? Could there be Token trades, for example? As in: forgo the Token-for-Level trade, and gain something else (like: a house; a custom Item; some permanency for your PC's efforts built into the PW itself)?

Now I go back to work (RL job work). lol.

[V'rass]

I am leery of any changes which punish grinders and pvp'ers any more then they already are in the name of rp. I guarantee you if that change gets put in there will be a mass exodus from the server. Its happened before on other servers and contrary to some opinions it can happen here. The server is already balanced enough between the various groups and plenty of rp is being generated as is. As the saying goes... if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Steve]

I am leery of any changes which punish grinders and pvp'ers any more then they already are in the name of rp.

How does an idea of Tokens "punish" grinders and pvp'ers?

[V'rass]

It takes away grinding which some people enjoy, it makes getting to max lv take even longer then it already does which is years, it forces everyone to rp rather then do quests or kill monsters. It also would cause every single dungeon to be overflowed with toons trying to earn tokens which would lead to traffic jams on a scale similar to NYC not to mention increase lag exponentially as a result of that. Simply put its a bad idea lol. The server is fine as it is configured currently.

[Steve]

I never suggested taking away grinding—a Player could kill monsters as much as they'd like. They simply wouldn't have to kill thousands over hours in order to level—they'd only have to kill as many as it would take to reach the place of the Area where they could acquire a token.

A PC could venture back to that dungeon as much as they'd like, but doing so would only be for chances for Loot.

How would it make reaching max lvl take longer? That issue or idea was stated, but still open to discussion/resolve. You provide no factors to take into consideration.

"Forces everyone to RP" is an interesting statement to argue, considering this IS a RP Server. RP does not exclude quests or killing monsters. Not at all.

As for traffic in dungeons: would it actually differ any to toons occupying dungeons by the hour(s) in order to acquire RP? From what I have read in the last year(s), the time investment in grinding is THE most painful. So why not try to make it a one-time challenge, to level, than keep a situation where Players have to mindlessly grind (and thus, occupy an Area for a very long time).

"Simply put its a bad idea." If the Server is fine as it is configured, why have another update ever again?

[Kauaiian]

I like the general idea. I like that it promotes area exploration and character/story development. Maybe in consideration for those that like to run in circles looking for the phat lootz and try to get themselves dizzy, you could just make the tokens voluntary for advancement, not mandatory.