Maximvs wrote:Well, I guess you just consider elementals to be able to talk with a proper vocal apparatus while others don't. Your argument remains based on logical deductions, while Dm echo and flemix's quote gives the other side more substance, along with their own logical deductions.
To make your -theory- work, you need to dumb down fantastic languages to simple, modern day chinese or spanish or whatever... but if you read on other fantastic languages, like Abyssal with it's endless buzzing of sounds of animals and natural occurrences, or Infernal with it's endless titles and flattery and hidden cues, why not add a fantastic element to the elemental tongues as well? You dumb down the elemental languages to make your theory work, and when you say things like "how can the sound of crashing waves send double meanings and hidden puns" shows that you don't understand how a language works. Yes, you can send double meanings with any kind of sound, doesn't matter if they're normal english words or vibrating the stones in your body or shifting the wind around you or blowing bubbles and rattling your throat.
Your lore book quote doesn't prove your theory to be 100 % sure, yet you talk as if you are 100 % sure of yourself. See the phaerimm for example. They communicate with themselves by shifting the wind around their body ( sounds similar to an air elemental? ) and communicate with other beings telepatically, because they know common and because their mouths and vocal chords doesn't really allow it, just like you cannot talk common while in the form of a cat. They know common but that doesn't mean they can speak it. You claim others should prove you wrong, but you are the one that must provide proof because the DM ruling is in effect and you want to break it. All you gotta do is dig in any DnD book and find an elemental that speaks common and produces the words.
Stop arguing. Open some books and find us an example of a normal elemental speaking common to some npc hero. Go on.
I did provide examples of a a rulebook stating a normal elemental was capable of speaking common. And once again, Flasmix's quote (Flemix is the name of no one in this thread) AND his argument supports elementals being able to speak common, and it is also sourced.
Please, re-read carefully enough to get the names right, and I think you will find a plethora of evidence for our side, and virtually none for your own.
Liam the Golden Illdraen, Guerilla Skirmisher of Sshamath Guy "Knife-Ears" Masterson
Boddynock Namfoodle, Illusionist Extraordinaire! (temporary leave of absence, again)
"Liam the Golden, so I have heard,
Yet truly none can polish a..." - Ameris Santraeger, 2016
Lol. Whatever man. I'm tired of reading 90% of fancy social sparring and 10 % of substance. Truth is, in 100 lore books and 200 novel books, you can't find an actual elemental that speaks common, only vague rules that left a lot to the interpretation, and the DM's get to fill the blanks.
As the previously mentioned Flasmix, or Flemix to some, my post with direct links to the information should be showing that I'm in favour of all Elementals being able to speak whatever languages the Druid knows.
If you could do what I did and provide links to wizards if the coast webpages on mechanics or entries from the book, if not, you are merely stating an opinion which does not contribute to the debate at hand.
I'm very fluent in D20 mechanics and can rule lawyer all day.
Wirg to Pug: "Iz lat dun?"
Pugratix to a snarky militia man: "Mmmm. Not yet. I will live for hundreds of years and be heralded as one of the greatest forces of destruction on the face of the world. The only thing you can destroy is the outhouse."
Maximvs wrote:I'm tired of reading 90% of fancy social sparring and 10 % of substance.
Even if that were true (and it isn't) 10% substance from us is still 10% more substance than you provided.
Liam the Golden Illdraen, Guerilla Skirmisher of Sshamath Guy "Knife-Ears" Masterson
Boddynock Namfoodle, Illusionist Extraordinaire! (temporary leave of absence, again)
"Liam the Golden, so I have heard,
Yet truly none can polish a..." - Ameris Santraeger, 2016
Maecius wrote:Opinions don't carry more weight just because you repeat them. Please allow other people a chance to share their thoughts and opinions as well, so we can get a more representative picture of how people actually feel about this ruling, and whether it actually needs to be reviewed.
Unfortunately, I worry that this thread may have already jumped that shark, and will not prove productive now that it's reached an intimidating five pages in length.
Perhaps a neutral party could start a new thread with a poll ("should elementals be able to speak common, yes or no")?
A new rule requiring function ruling to have their cases made in a single post with one rebuttal, and the playerbase voting their relative favor.
Maecius wrote:Opinions don't carry more weight just because you repeat them. Please allow other people a chance to share their thoughts and opinions as well, so we can get a more representative picture of how people actually feel about this ruling, and whether it actually needs to be reviewed.
Unfortunately, I worry that this thread may have already jumped that shark, and will not prove productive now that it's reached an intimidating five pages in length.
Perhaps a neutral party could start a new thread with a poll ("should elementals be able to speak common, yes or no")?
A new rule requiring function ruling to have their cases made in a single post with one rebuttal, and the playerbase voting their relative favor.
Bit off topic, but I did propose developing some sort of debate rules to Echo via PM.
Liam the Golden Illdraen, Guerilla Skirmisher of Sshamath Guy "Knife-Ears" Masterson
Boddynock Namfoodle, Illusionist Extraordinaire! (temporary leave of absence, again)
"Liam the Golden, so I have heard,
Yet truly none can polish a..." - Ameris Santraeger, 2016
Wirg to Pug: "Iz lat dun?"
Pugratix to a snarky militia man: "Mmmm. Not yet. I will live for hundreds of years and be heralded as one of the greatest forces of destruction on the face of the world. The only thing you can destroy is the outhouse."
Hawke wrote:Personal attacks will not be tolerated, last warning.
Threads may not be the only things closed, please just treat each other with respect. If you don't agree fine, but enough of the personal jabs.
Are you talking about me? If so, I forfeit my rights. Don't lock this just to protect me. It's just an argument, there wasn't any personal attacks in this thread, at least from my definition of personal attacks.
Hawke wrote:Personal attacks will not be tolerated, last warning.
Threads may not be the only things closed, please just treat each other with respect. If you don't agree fine, but enough of the personal jabs.
Are you talking about me? If so, I forfeit my rights. Don't lock this just to protect me. It's just an argument, there wasn't any personal attacks in this thread, at least from my definition of personal attacks.
Indeed. I find Maximvs's argument lacking, but I don't feel like he has come after me, only my stance on the issue.
Liam the Golden Illdraen, Guerilla Skirmisher of Sshamath Guy "Knife-Ears" Masterson
Boddynock Namfoodle, Illusionist Extraordinaire! (temporary leave of absence, again)
"Liam the Golden, so I have heard,
Yet truly none can polish a..." - Ameris Santraeger, 2016
Boddynock wrote:
Indeed. I find Maximvs's argument lacking
Yeah yeah. You just keep holding on to two lines of "lore" in a supplement book made for powergamers. How to play a monster race with +8 strength. lol.
Unfortunately, I worry that this thread may have already jumped that shark, and will not prove productive now that it's reached an intimidating five pages in length.