Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

[Blackman D]

The only real negative impact I can think is the diminished value in mediocre items that are usually used when leveling up (+2 gear etc.) these will now only have a purpose for newer players and while they are littered all over the auctioneers, they are worth less than the average price now.

yes this was a point that was brought up also, tho the flip to it was that by causing the prices to go down it should make it easier for newer people to also buy said gear they need

mid level stuff may drop in price but epic stuff that everyone wants is unlikely to change (or at least go down, tho i doubt it could get any higher reasonably either)

the catch here will likely become crafting if it ever goes live, but that will obviously change the market in some way shape or form

[vbaddict]

The only real negative impact I can think is the diminished value in mediocre items that are usually used when leveling up (+2 gear etc.) these will now only have a purpose for newer players and while they are littered all over the auctioneers, they are worth less than the average price now.

This is what I had trouble communicating earlier in the thread. There is an interesting category of items that used to serve a purpose that will now be sold to NPCs.

The most straight forward example of an improvement to BG due to the removal of level requirements appears to be:
If a new low level player loots a great item, they can immediately equip it.

So I was wondering... When an item is generated, how difficult would it be to compare its level to the character's level and take the lesser of the 2. Something like this might have more beneficial side effects than negative ones.

[Blackman D]

chest may be level restricted from stopping higher levels from looting them (tho with the loot change that arguably isnt needed anymore) but the loot generator doesnt care, it will randomly spit out something thats on the table

[aaron22]

on the positive. it will make some items that had a level restriction that was too high for it's usability will now become viable.

[Theodore01]

What are the levels where there is an issue with this change compared with the status that was before? Can someone tell me with an example?

Well, take the 'periapt of the lost witch (SR28)' for example.
A low level player with it can now laugh at most casters, magic missiles (hilltop,goblins,hagspawn) don't harm him anymore.

I see that as a big change as areas spellcasters were created with a level range in mind.

[Tsidkenu]

Yeah, assuming they don't find the merchant who sells that 32 SR cloak for about 80k first. . .

[Steve]

What are the levels where there is an issue with this change compared with the status that was before? Can someone tell me with an example?

Well, take the 'periapt of the lost witch (SR28)' for example.
A low level player with it can now laugh at most casters, magic missiles (hilltop,goblins,hagspawn) don't harm him anymore.

I see that as a big change as areas spellcasters were created with a level range in mind.

This.

As well, why would I RCR a Character I worked for years to level up, when I could now just God-Equip a Level 1, solo the entire Server for 3 weeks, and get into Epics?

No item restriction allows more soloing, and more importantly, which no one has addressed yet, is how does it make RP sense that now our Characters are instantly, exponentially more powerful because of gear?

Maecius, why do you immediately bring my suggestion on lowbie PvP to grieving? If I want to create a Chaotic Evil Gray Orc that desires to murder every non-Orc it finds, but has enough INT to know to prey upon this weaker than himself, PvPing within a appropriate CR area for the Character and using my Epic Horde Gear, would be legal RP.

The reason it can appear as one Player griefing another is because Characters don't die, no matter how many times they are a victim.

[vbaddict]

chest may be level restricted from stopping higher levels from looting them (tho with the loot change that arguably isnt needed anymore) but the loot generator doesnt care, it will randomly spit out something thats on the table

If, say, a level 10 pair of boots is generated for a level 5 player, is it possible for for this pair of boots to be spit out with a level requirement of 5 instead? If yes, then the primary aim of allowing a new player to immediately equip the item is achieved. The mid level stuff would still fill it's niche as leveling gear, but an interesting side effect would be the occasional special item generated by the low level character.

[Thorsson]

Still depends on the DM, and what campaign they are running.

No campaign I've ever been a part of. You'd have to make a very specific campaign for it to be true.

You mean you don't do that before due to item level restrictions?

No. If it was red it couldn't be used yet.

You roleplay while grinding?

I roleplay while adventuring.

Serious answer: My more pro-grinding character would just be happy to hang back and let the +4 dude do his thing. Maybe even provide (facetious) moral support while at it. She isn't turning down free money!

That seems to require a very particular character. I can't think of any of my characters who would behave like that. Many would just walk off.

It feels like all your points have just been made up to take a contrary position.

[Pimple]

Lots of grumbling inhere

I don't really care about the discussion, but want to say I approve of this change. Don't really care about balancing issues either, or preventing abuse systematically. If I'm playing with people who would abuse any of this I think it's going to suck no matter which way things are set up.

I do wonder if there are any reasons why any random person shouldn't be able to wield that glowing sword of epeen+4 that the guy standing next to him had no issue using? Reasons I could use in RP. I mean the whole levels thing is an attempt at emulating something sort of remotely realistic, no? Even if it fails to achieve this, I think the discussion has gone off track when it is more about controlling player behavior and less about what a character in the setting should be able to do from a purely IC perspective.

Perhaps this question of mine is off topic? To me it seems the most relevant though, so I will ask it here. When I find that magic ring that of course fits my finger perfectly, as all rings found in dusty chests do, why can't I put it on immediately, from an in character perspective? Something my character is lacking, maybe, but if it is only experience lacking, that just feels silly to me. Isn't it a little ridiculous that we all constantly find items that depend on a point system of quantified experience?

Just my thoughts. If anyone wants to tell me how they RP level restrictions, send me a PM

#apathy #dontcare #whatever

[Passiflora]

I find it fascinating how long it takes for a thread to reach 6 pages.

I'm glad I'm not in the moderator team anymore, I pity you guys.

[Steve]

haps this question of mine is off topic? To me it seems the most relevant though, so I will ask it here. When I find that magic ring that of course fits my finger perfectly, as all rings found in dusty chests do, why can't I put it on immediately, from an in character perspective? Something my character is lacking, maybe, but if it is only experience lacking, that just feels silly to me. Isn't it a little ridiculous that we all constantly find items that depend on a point system of quantified experience?

Lore Skill. Without enough of it, your Character wouldn't know how to activate the magic.

[mrm3ntalist]

What are the levels where there is an issue with this change compared with the status that was before? Can someone tell me with an example?

Well, take the 'periapt of the lost witch (SR28)' for example.
A low level player with it can now laugh at most casters, magic missiles (hilltop,goblins,hagspawn) don't harm him anymore.

I see that as a big change as areas spellcasters were created with a level range in mind.

This.

As well, why would I RCR a Character I worked for years to level up, when I could now just God-Equip a Level 1, solo the entire Server for 3 weeks, and get into Epics?

No item restriction allows more soloing, and more importantly, which no one has addressed yet, is how does it make RP sense that now our Characters are instantly, exponentially more powerful because of gear?

Maecius, why do you immediately bring my suggestion on lowbie PvP to grieving? If I want to create a Chaotic Evil Gray Orc that desires to murder every non-Orc it finds, but has enough INT to know to prey upon this weaker than himself, PvPing within a appropriate CR area for the Character and using my Epic Horde Gear, would be legal RP.

The reason it can appear as one Player griefing another is because Characters don't die, no matter how many times they are a victim.

Steve, i am sorry to say it but you are speaking very generic. Even before the change, you can equip a character to the teeth to have the number you want, for example high AC for the mobs AC, items that gave minor hp etc. Grinding from lvl1 to lvl11 was a very easy thing to do even before this change. I want even touch having your character buffed to the teeth, which could be done IC, or even use consumables.. Again, be specific how it will make you grind easier compared to before and at which levels.

The SR was one of the issues that was brought up. For the following reasons:
- There is already an SR20(?) item equipable at level 2
- SR items had much higher level restriction. Even if we didnt make this change, the levels of the sr items would have dropped
- There is no heavy casting in low levels but even if we see that it is a problem, spells with no SR checks can be put in the mix.

[Nyeleni]

SNIP

Nyeleni, your concern has a little more merit if you were relying on item level restrictions to price your gear, though I'd definitely encourage you to check out Karond's item guide to get a better idea of how to value your items if you haven't already: http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=149&t=18282

SNIP

Well I was. I certainly mostly undervalued most of the items. But I liked to sell the item as level minus 2 or 3k of gold. Some items who I know are much searched after, I would price accordingly, though again not as exorbitantly as I have seen them on the forum auction.

And some items who had a far too high level for their worth I sold for much less than the level minus some gold.

As said, it was a nice little help.

And as said, also, I don't mind the change much.

Otoh, I agree in some points with Steve. But not enough to start a revolution over it. It doesn't matter that much.

[Pimple]

Lore Skill. Without enough of it, your Character wouldn't know how to activate the magic.

Some classes will be sorry to hear it