Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

For Issues, Ideas, or Subjects That Do Not Fit Elsewhere

Moderators: Moderator, DM

User avatar
Tsidkenu
Posts: 3962
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 12:04 am
Location: Terra Nullis

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by Tsidkenu »

Steve wrote:
haps this question of mine is off topic? To me it seems the most relevant though, so I will ask it here. When I find that magic ring that of course fits my finger perfectly, as all rings found in dusty chests do, why can't I put it on immediately, from an in character perspective? Something my character is lacking, maybe, but if it is only experience lacking, that just feels silly to me. Isn't it a little ridiculous that we all constantly find items that depend on a point system of quantified experience?
Lore Skill. Without enough of it, your Character wouldn't know how to activate the magic.
Despite the fact that in the FR campaign setting, 40% of all magical items are self-identifying (1-40 on d% according to p. 136 of Magic of Faerun) and reveal their powers and means of use to the user, one per minute of concentration upon the item, or instantaneously for a successful DC 20 bardic lore check?

If a ring has been identified, its powers are known by the identifier and, by extension, to whomsoever they want to reveal it (eg. merchant when selling, fellow adventurer for their use, etc). Fortunately our server also has a balance between unidentified and self-identifying items meaning that either can apply for the sake of RP.

You don't need lore to know what an item does if somone else, or the item itself, tells you!
User avatar
Steve
Recognized Donor
Posts: 8136
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:42 am
Location: Paradise in GMT +1

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by Steve »

mrm3ntalist wrote:[Grinding from lvl1 to lvl11 was a very easy thing to do even before this change.
Maecius wrote:It will make it somewhat easier to level through the lower levels, which we have been frequently told isn't easy to begin with
Sometimes two different things are being said to justify the situation. :|

Anyway, it is what it is. The change makes my own Characters much more powerful than before, and the Server less challenging to Level-play. But it seems that was the goal, so the Staff looks to have succeeded.

Level Requirements were, in my humble opinion, valuable in giving inspiration for a Character to gain experience—and XP—in order to better master the magic power of Things. It was a Role-play aspect that I view was/is now removed, in order to give more OOC "fun" to the Server in general. For me, ease of play is not fun—I prefer challenged and attaining value or possibility through investment. With this change, an aspect of that is gone.

Though I was planning to give a Pro v Con list to M3nt, I think the decision will not be swayed, so better to redirect that time elsewhere (as in, Staff is fully convinced of its choice here).

I do however sincerely hope the Staff understands that this issue is an example of Staff making insider decisions and dumping those on the Community without warning or explanation, was not the best execution for Server Improvement. I hope it CAN be different in the future.

Talsorian the Conjuransmuter - The (someTIMEs) Traveler

The half-MAN, the MYrchanT(H), the LEGENDermaine ~ Jon Smythe [Bio]

Brinn Essebrenanath — Volamtar, seeking wisdom within the earth dream [Bio]
User avatar
Steve
Recognized Donor
Posts: 8136
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:42 am
Location: Paradise in GMT +1

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by Steve »

Tsidkenu wrote: You don't need lore to know what an item does if somone else, or the item itself, tells you!
Well, I've had plenty of Characters that cannot identify a +1 item. :|

And it seems solely OOC convenient that every Jane Merchant can tell you the Epic History of whatever for between 25—100 coin.

Wouldn't it be more RP Lore-ish if a Character would need to visit the Temple of Mystra, Camdlekeep, or some mystic shaman to divine/determine that great powers that exist within magic items?

Magic Items as it is are so prevalent and devalued on BGTSCC, they're called trinkets by Characters and deposited at Maltz like junk. I mean, the way magic items appear on the Sword Coast, you'd think the Weave would have been nearly drained away by now!!! :twisted:

Talsorian the Conjuransmuter - The (someTIMEs) Traveler

The half-MAN, the MYrchanT(H), the LEGENDermaine ~ Jon Smythe [Bio]

Brinn Essebrenanath — Volamtar, seeking wisdom within the earth dream [Bio]
User avatar
mrm3ntalist
Retired Staff
Posts: 7746
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: US of A

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by mrm3ntalist »

Steve wrote:
mrm3ntalist wrote:[Grinding from lvl1 to lvl11 was a very easy thing to do even before this change.
Maecius wrote:It will make it somewhat easier to level through the lower levels, which we have been frequently told isn't easy to begin with
Sometimes two different things are being said to justify the situation. :|
Steve, again you are being very generic.

Isnt it easy to level from lvl1 to lvl 11 in hours, even before this change?

Isnt difficult for drow to progress through the initial levels ( this is were most of the complaints came from )?
Anyway, it is what it is. The change makes my own Characters much more powerful than before, and the Server less challenging to Level-play. But it seems that was the goal, so the Staff looks to have succeeded.

Level Requirements were, in my humble opinion, valuable in giving inspiration for a Character to gain experience—and XP—in order to better master the magic power of Things. It was a Role-play aspect that I view was/is now removed, in order to give more OOC "fun" to the Server in general. For me, ease of play is not fun—I prefer challenged and attaining value or possibility through investment. With this change, an aspect of that is gone.

Though I was planning to give a Pro v Con list to M3nt, I think the decision will not be swayed, so better to redirect that time elsewhere (as in, Staff is fully convinced of its choice here).

I do however sincerely hope the Staff understands that this issue is an example of Staff making insider decisions and dumping those on the Community without warning or explanation, was not the best execution for Server Improvement. I hope it CAN be different in the future.
I think you are stretching this too much steve. I know you are someone who cares greatly for this community and you worry about, but is this really such a big thing?

I will agree with you that there are some small level range, that will be things easier for them but i think the positives will be much better.

If you do that list with pros and cons and specificly think where they apply ( what lvl range etc ) I think we will be able to come to an understanding.
Last edited by mrm3ntalist on Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mendel - Villi of En Dharasha Everae | Nikos Berenicus - Initiate of the Mirari | Efialtes Rodius - Blood Magus | Olaf Garaeif - Dwarven Slayer

Spelling mistakes are purposely entered for your entertainment! ChatGPT "ruined" the fun :(
User avatar
Asmodea
Posts: 353
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by Asmodea »

I do want to say that I like the idea of knowing now that I can hand my weapon to a lowbie to assist them on some quest without having to worry about level. It actually already got used once as a low level asked Izzy for help dealing with some random spawns and I was stuck in RP so I was like: "Here you go. Take my blade as my help. I am busy... but bring it back." Instant-RP! And this whole debate actually brought it to mind as a possibility.
Player of Isabella Villame
---------------------------------------------
"You are what you often do."
User avatar
Thorsson
Posts: 1293
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by Thorsson »

Pimple wrote:Perhaps this question of mine is off topic? To me it seems the most relevant though, so I will ask it here. When I find that magic ring that of course fits my finger perfectly, as all rings found in dusty chests do, why can't I put it on immediately, from an in character perspective?
Not really relevant. The restrictions fit 99.9% of PnP campaigns (I exclude Grimcheese's, which are clearly different), where you get more powerful items as you advance levels; this was in place because of the way loot drops work here, which has not fundamentally changed. It's hardly as though BGTSCC is the only PW to have them in place, so it's not some weird anomaly that has been corrected.

I'm still waiting for an explanation of why this was not thought worthy of a community discussion before implementation.
Life is far too important a thing ever to talk seriously about it
User avatar
Steve
Recognized Donor
Posts: 8136
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:42 am
Location: Paradise in GMT +1

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by Steve »

mrm3ntalist wrote: If you do that list with pros and cons and specificly think where they apply ( what lvl range etc ) I think we will be able to come to an understanding.
What understanding are you assuming? One where I no longer consider the change questionable, on a number of levels, both OOC/mechanics and Role-play?

Hence why I would not wish to spend the time making such a list, because it is very clear the decision is made, and that is final, final and...final.

Like I said before: it totally benefits me mechanically. I should be happy about that, right? But it also lowers the challenge of the CR progression for my Characters, and I will assume, the rest of the Server as well. THAT issue, makes BGTSCC far less interesting to me.

BGTSCC should be providing more challenges and rewards, against time investment and role-play investment, not less. The only other reason to play on BGTSCC, without these, is in order to have a social network "hang out." But I kinda though the IRC was there for that?!?
M3nt wrote:Steve, again you are being very generic.

Isnt it easy to level from lvl1 to lvl 11 in hours, even before this change?
If it was already easy, then why in the world would any go and make it easier?? If it is specifically to make UD leveling easier—and there are by far more than Drow in the UD M3nt—then why not lower the CR difficulty for those few lowbie Areas, instead?

You can label my comments as "generic" all you want, over and over, but that doesn't make them so. I've been specific, actually, on a number of fronts, during this discussion. If I didn't know you to be a real standup, helpful guy, I'd say you were simply trying to condescend here.

So again, to be EXTRA specific for you: A full set of Epic Gear on a lowbie and midbie toon allows now for an exponential increase in XP gain vs. CR of area/level of Character. Where before, with gear that was Level Restricted, and though I could twink, I was limited to 25–30 XP per kill rate. Now, that I can increase the gear to full Epic Inventory, I can probably reach 40 XP per kill, soloing Areas that my low(er) level toon could never do alone, before.

And ratchet that up to a Group, then grinding is so much easier. Like, way.

If the above is purely anecdotal and so minimal of the actual activity of the majority of Players on BGTSCC, then yes, let it have no effect on the already made decision. But from what I've seen from statements on these Forums, less grinding and less soloing as the Numero Uno means for leveling, is what the Playerbase wants...not to have it be made easier.

And removing Level Restriction makes it easier to level. So has the Paradigm of slowing down leveling been changed, in the minds of Staff?

No, M3nt, the Level Restriction removal is not a "big thing." But it IS a thing, something the Staff seemed ill prepared to but into context, when applying to the Server. It has both OOC mechanical and Role-play consequences, neither addressed in the change to the Community, just dumped on in.

Anyway, I'm going now to log in and Gear Up my Characters to massively take advantage of this new paradigm...and go look for some Paladins or Zhentarim to PWN (see...I'm equal opportunity PvPer... :twisted: ).

On a final note: THANK YOU QC for trying to make changes of improvement on the Server. In general, the Community needs you to assure us of the quality of requests by Players and additions by Devs. I understand and appreciate the time/energy commitment you all make, though I may not appreciate the decision as it effects my experience of the Server. Obviously, when decisions are made behind closed doors, the outcome can be seen as questionable, and though you all as "invested" members of the Community with more rights than the rest of us, you DO get to make these decisions, I'd like to say that it would be kinder, maybe more polite, to inquire or inform the Community before you do it.

Because there is always that 1% chance the change really isn't even warranted.

Talsorian the Conjuransmuter - The (someTIMEs) Traveler

The half-MAN, the MYrchanT(H), the LEGENDermaine ~ Jon Smythe [Bio]

Brinn Essebrenanath — Volamtar, seeking wisdom within the earth dream [Bio]
User avatar
Nyeleni
Recognized Donor
Posts: 1432
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:09 pm
Location: Catalonia

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by Nyeleni »

I would just add, more duties and rights, if at all.
Truman Capote, Breakfast At Tiffany's
"... - it's better to look at the sky than live there. Such an empty place; so vague. Just a country where the thunder goes and things disappear."
User avatar
Thorsson
Posts: 1293
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by Thorsson »

There seems a relentless dumbing down of the server.
Life is far too important a thing ever to talk seriously about it
User avatar
ShortRedandLoud
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:52 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by ShortRedandLoud »

I'm confused.

This change is so minor as to be almost pointless, but people are... upset?

A fresh character relying purely on loot they find and the auction house will maybe get a few slightly early bonuses, depending on how well/luckily they loot.

A veteran's character getting muled loot will get a significant bonus, but they already get a significant bonus via gold and getting a significant amount of gear upgrades ASAP. And because chances are they have friends who can just break the challenge of any area by providing epic buffs that can effectively replace much of the powerful gear anyways.

If you want a challenge you can just not mule or get buffs. Those who don't will find a way to bypass the challenge anyways.

Talk of it breaking immersion is a joke when you have something like the RCR system in existence. (Though for the record I like the RCR system, even though I basically never use it.)
A gnome. It menaces with a fell and terrible power. - - - (148)
User avatar
Grimcheese
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by Grimcheese »

To paraphrase a saying, "people will complain about anything on God's green earth, including God and green earth".

A lot of the complaints seem to be centered around how others will react to the change, and curiously very little around themselves. I'll admit that it's hard to complain that you can suddenly now wield your +4 arsenal with a straight face. :lol:

If interacting with people superpowered by twink gear gets your goat, form an adventuring party with the rule forbidding muled/bought gear. Judging by the number of posters here protesting over the change, I bet anyone starting the party is not going to be shy of volunteers.

Also, think of what else could have been: The servers I've been on that had no level requirement for their gear also had rules against muling between characters. If nothing else, I will also bet my next month's paycheque that the forums would be in more of an uproar over not being able to mule gear if the DMs passed that alongside the level requirement abolishment.
Last edited by Grimcheese on Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Thorsson
Posts: 1293
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by Thorsson »

ShortRedandLoud wrote:I'm confused.
Clearly.
ShortRedandLoud wrote:A veteran's character getting muled loot will get a significant bonus...
So let's make it bigger, eh?

Genius.

P.S. Ban RCR & Ban Muling. That would be fine by me, Grimcheese.
Life is far too important a thing ever to talk seriously about it
User avatar
Moridin
Retired Staff
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:14 pm
Location: SK, Canada

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by Moridin »

If one were to ban muling, it would be good to set up a storage system ingame no?
Characters:
Lomith Dy'nesen Journal
User avatar
Thorsson
Posts: 1293
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by Thorsson »

Moridin wrote:If one were to ban muling, it would be good to set up a storage system ingame no?
Explain your logic. I can't see a direct relationship.
Life is far too important a thing ever to talk seriously about it
User avatar
Aspect of Sorrow
Custom Content
Posts: 2649
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:11 pm
Location: Reliquary

Re: Minimum Lvl Requirement gone?

Unread post by Aspect of Sorrow »

Persistent storage and RCR are best left for a different topic gents.
Locked

Return to “General Discussion”