The "Epic Store"

[chad878262]

It's been stated in the past that things like additional epic shops are on the table and the items in each shop well be good for different character types. In addition, magic crafting is still in the pipeline which will allow for customization, though at lower power levels then what's available in Avernus.

Anyone who would like to put in the effort to create a merchant with epic wares need only to do the (insanely time consuming) work of building the merchant, lore, items and descriptions and submit to QC. We will work with you to review it and some items will probably be modified or removed of considered OP. Building merchants is not easy, many more have started to work on then then the couple that have been implemented because whoever was working on them stopped doing so...probably because of how time consuming it is. With any unpaid venture you get what one or more individuals are willing and able to deliver, because folks aren't going to work for free on something they don't want to do.

[Touri]

Hello all,

I don't do quests. They are boring and repetitive metagaming in my opinion. How many times can a halfling lose a key in the same dungeon?

Don't tell me you yet haven't come after their plan. The hins are evil from the core. They tell you they lost their key but actually they hide it somewhere in the ruins each time. Then they send poor adventurers (you and your friends!) to look for it in hope they fail, so they can steal their goods after they managed what is left of the goblins that have killed the adventurers.

Back to topic:

I'd ask everyone posting and reading to answer this question: does epic gear—DM granted via RP or purchased from a merchant PC/NPC—change how you/we, as individuals, Role-Play our Characters, our Character Sheet?

If the answer is no, then there is no problem here.

Yes. It would be strange, if the items would bring no changes. But in my opinion, that change is part of the game and mostly positive. It is no problem for me. I like to have different player charackters with unique powerfull items, different abillities and some yeah really powerfull friends or enemies(rp wise, sidekick to the class balance: Divine and arcane magic casters play the powerfull of Fearun). It would be very boring if everyone runs around with the same artefacts. Dungeons & Dragons is a game you have to play together. It should make you happy when your mate finds an epic item, gets a DM reward or after a very long run finally can purchase it. Even if you can't have such items, because of less play times, rp reaons or bad luck, you should accept that there are some out there that have it and also roleplay to have it. You can't win the game but have a lot of fun. There is no need to be green-eyed.

When I first read/heard of the shop, I was very concerned as well. And for sure still some items are pretty strong, like the belt with +3 strength and +3 constitution for less then 200k. But if you look through the hundreds of items, most of them are only slightly better than what I have already. So +1 better is just +1, so no huge impact to the balance. You have to ask yourself, if it is really worth to grind many many hours for the amount of gold you need to buy it?
Even those players who were rich, dropped down their money pretty fast and they are far far away from purchasing every item, they would like to have, to get +1 better. I don't know how many really have such great ammounts of gold like Karond or AC81 (Sorry for choosing you for example), but I bet there are only handfull active players out there.

So my fazit is:
+ The items in the shop are choosen very well (with some minor exceptions), compared to those items you can find in chests or get for DM rewards. It is very well done by the Quality Control Team. Thank you a lot for your hard efforts.

+ It adds a great ammount of long time motivation for me, even if I never will get many of the items.

+ the auction prices will drop down, so more people get better items

+ I like the rp background and where it is put. Sure the good one would like to close the portal, and sure he can try it. But sometimes there are things in a pw that remain for time and can't be changed with any small effort.

- some of us may get lost to an ultimate, and never ending grind feast to get all the gold you need. May the gods bless our lost souls

- I would like to see the shop items put to the loot table as well.

Kind regards

Touri

[Ravial]

This store first of all is located in Avernus. There's no RP reason (Edit: for good characters except maybe saving someone from damanation, but that's also sort of a suicide mission) whatsoever to go to Nine Hells where your soul can be forever damned. Good PCs would actually have interest in closing this portal down forever, but, frankly, i doubt this will happen, due to it being an open IG area, not a DM one.

What RP reason you have to go kill the FK, the lizard chief, the balor, or any other dungeon? Exploration, adventuring, getting there by mistake are just a few reasons i can think of, while tehre are other ways to acquire such items, since some are alreaedy sale them in auction. Finally, on a more personal note and something that will prove that you only need the will to do domething, I cant believe a player found a way to change the race of his character amd nmot find a reason to get to Avernus!!!!

Yes, well, I don't have any RP reason for it and therefor I don't really walk around and go dungeoneering like others. It's not appealing to me to explore the same dungeons repeatedly over the course of... whole playtime, but that's just me and you can call it an issue on my side. That personal note, while accurate, (let's look at Hoihe and Viridiana, alright, although Viridiana's case is entirely because of a character creation error), I don't think it hits the context entirely. Avernus, being one of Layers of Hell is, normally, a ridiculously dangerous place where going there is practically... well, suicide. Except few cases of being clever and powerful enough to gate yourself out maybe before your soul is damned. Most of devils aren't fluffy deal-making types. So yes. I don't have any reason to go to Avernus with my Chaotic Good Character, knowing all dangers of that place and what it imposes with itself. It's basicly tagged "Avoid at all cost unless you want to die horribly and never see the light again". But. Then again. That's my choice and my personal opinion on that matter and I won't impose it on anyone.

Second of all: This store seems like a HUGE slap in the face for all the people that ever worked hard for DM rewards. I mean, seriously. Most (if not all) DM rewards granted to players are right now, thanks to that store... they don't hold any merit beside a sentimental value. They are considered garbage.

I talked about the slap in the face above. You got it the otehr way around. Why i quoted this is for this: How many DM rewards you get? Normally it is one per year other two. The majority of players get none. Being able to work with a DM on plot ( and get rewards ) is a priviledge. The fact you get items is a bonus. Such rewards, in my view should be the customizations of items ( stats ) to fit the unique player character.

Fair point, all in all. The shop being in Hells, though, still bugs me

Third of all: This store is a paradise for all kinds of players mostly oriented on Causal Grinding and earning ridiculous amounts of gold (I know a PC that has so much gold, he can buy every single item from the epic shop three times and still it feels like it didn't cost him much), and PvP mongering powerbuilders, who RP cocky arrogant persons just to hook people into RP offing a pvp and killing them for pleasure. (I already seen it)

Wow... So just because i like that shop I belong to one of these categories??? Honestly, reading posts like that, is the most elitist crap i have ever heard. As i said before, the server ( thank god) provides support for many options. Not just campfire RP. Just because you chose to play with one option in mind doesnt mean that is all you can do.

In summary, this shop had the opposite results than what some in this thread claim. It made epic gear for players like kellendril and ravial not only available to them, but affordable as well, compared to what was before. Instead of complaining about it, I would try to fit adventuring in my playing time and get those items.

You may call me elitist, sure. It's my opinion and I do think it's a paradise for such types, but I've never said that everyone who uses this shop is one. You can be a heavy RPer or no and go there buy stuff. Alright, I don't have anything against that. I don't aim to be rude here or imposing myself and my style of playing on others, (if I'm doing this, I can already say I am sorry for it) just expressing my own concerns about this. Thing is, I believe, that our characters (Kellendril's and mine) need a good enough reason to go into such a place like Avernus (Again, think about it. It's Nine Hells), and in most cases it's not going to happen. Now put there other like-minded PCs/Players. It may be generally available to all, and it's cool, I like that, but from the standards we apparently both follow and some other players may or may not, it doesn't make it very much accessable to us/them. Affordable -- maybe.

It's all my personal opinion on the matter, you can disagree and I respect that.

All in all, I read through the thread and there are some very good points mentioned there and they made me think. Mainly I'd like to point out Tsidkenu and Asmodea's posts, but some of those 100% favouring the shop also made me stop and think.
Please people, keep this thread in good spirit

[Storm Munin]

Alignment whatever toon asks around for a certain object with special characteristic at the local market.
Intrepid trader overhears and offers to get the item in question (at a premium brokering fare of course).
A bargain are struck, a couple of days/weeks later lo and behold the item are delivered (from Hell, but why tell the customer this?) and everyone are pleased.

Alignment whatever got his item without going to Hell, city of Dark Weaving or wherever else deemed uncharacteristic.
Trading toon got to do its profession and roleplay a deal, yay.
Everyone wins?

Or:

Wait until the crafting finally are implemented and order said item directly from the crafter (or by broker).
Everyone are still content immersionwise too.


Or:
Find a reason for whatever alignment toon to go to Hell and just do it.

But it is a rather hostile environment.
Epic favored soul revived epic powerbuilt fighter 6 times just heading in.


Life will always find a way.

/M

[Darkcloud777]

The epic store is a travesty. No offense meant to the developers that put in hard work to get it in game, but it is.

I've played BGTSCC for several years now, and in all that time, received one DM reward for my RP with Eowiel. 2 weeks later, that item was nerfed, and so far less useful. I've never found anything useful in a chest, ever.

Now, there is an "epic store" where those who grind out millions of gold can go and alter the balance of the server at a whim. I don't know how else to put it, but this sucks. At present, y character of 4 years has 8000 gold. She has had more than 100k gold one time..after selling the same DM granted item I mentioned above...3 years ago.

I think this store is a unfair. Many of us cannot EVER afford the wares for sale there. Ever.

It's enough to make me consider a change of server, to be honest, even though I think of this as "home". It breaks immersion. It alters balance. It tilts the balance of power even further toward the grinders who make millions of gold playing every day and doing nothing but grinding, away from those that RP.

If this is the path I am not sure I want to be on it.

A travesty? A slap on the face? Really? Lets take the shop out. How were you able to buy epic items then? A +4pair of boots went for 700K with no stats. How on earth were you able to get them before. All the players you derogatory call looters, grinders etc, were able to purchase those items. So back then, not only you had to pay more, but you also had to compete with those "bad" players in order to get them.

Then this shop comes and makes such epic items abailable TO ALL. There is no need to compete with all those players you mentioned above.

This server offers many options and choosing one does not mean you cannot do another. Adventuring, Campfire Rp, Social events, combat events etc. Just because you chose to focus on one aspect, doesnt mean the rest of us should do the same, or the server should be designed to accomodate fully your unique playstyle.

The three negative posts made here, happen to be from three players from the same guild. At least two of them spend many hours in game and of course they create much RP for all of us to enjoy. How hard is during those ours to make one or two patrols to hit a dungeon or two. Hell, the minotaur takes just 10mins to complete and has 8 chests that everyone can loot. making a couple of thousand there is not much and if by chance you get to find an item you can sell, you can make much more for that. So, the part where you say that you only have 8k is a weak excuse and it happens because you CHOSE to.

Finally, the only travesty, the only slap in the face is to those that had epic items before. A pair of +4 boots with +3hide/ms would sell for a couple of milions and a couple epic items. Now they worth less than the ones in the shop. The same with +4 amulets and the weapons etc. People like me, had their items that were acquired by many hours of looting/grinding/trading lose so much value, that i should have been raging in the forums and threatening to leave. Players like me should have been making posts like yours. I dont see anyone doing that. Not only because it is a FAIR change in general for the whole payerbase, but it seems that such players accept the new challenges the devs and dms put ahead of them, instead of complaining in the forums.

Long story short, you got this the other way around. Not only now you have access to ipec items you wouldnt before ( while others did ) but you can also acquire them without spending millions or giving away any epic items. You should be happy about that.

This store first of all is located in Avernus. There's no RP reason (Edit: for good characters except maybe saving someone from damanation, but that's also sort of a suicide mission) whatsoever to go to Nine Hells where your soul can be forever damned. Good PCs would actually have interest in closing this portal down forever, but, frankly, i doubt this will happen, due to it being an open IG area, not a DM one.

What RP reason you have to go kill the FK, the lizard chief, the balor, or any other dungeon? Exploration, adventuring, getting there by mistake are just a few reasons i can think of, while tehre are other ways to acquire such items, since some are alreaedy sale them in auction. Finally, on a more personal note and something that will prove that you only need the will to do domething, I cant believe a player found a way to change the race of his character amd nmot find a reason to get to Avernus!!!!

Second of all: This store seems like a HUGE slap in the face for all the people that ever worked hard for DM rewards. I mean, seriously. Most (if not all) DM rewards granted to players are right now, thanks to that store... they don't hold any merit beside a sentimental value. They are considered garbage.

I talked about the slap in the face above. You got it the otehr way around. Why i quoted this is for this: How many DM rewards you get? Normally it is one per year other two. The majority of players get none. Being able to work with a DM on plot ( and get rewards ) is a priviledge. The fact you get items is a bonus. Such rewards, in my view should be the customizations of items ( stats ) to fit the unique player character.

Also what about those that do not have the time to take part in events ( or dont want to ). Those that do not sit around waiting for DM events to happen? No items for those players?

Third of all: This store is a paradise for all kinds of players mostly oriented on Causal Grinding and earning ridiculous amounts of gold (I know a PC that has so much gold, he can buy every single item from the epic shop three times and still it feels like it didn't cost him much), and PvP mongering powerbuilders, who RP cocky arrogant persons just to hook people into RP offing a pvp and killing them for pleasure. (I already seen it)

Wow... So just because i like that shop I belong to one of these categories??? Honestly, reading posts like that, is the most elitist crap i have ever heard. As i said before, the server ( thank god) provides support for many options. Not just campfire RP. Just because you chose to play with one option in mind doesnt mean that is all you can do.

In summary, this shop had the opposite results than what some in this thread claim. It made epic gear for players like kellendril and ravial not only available to them, but affordable as well, compared to what was before. Instead of complaining about it, I would try to fit adventuring in my playing time and get those items.

+1

++1

[Akroma666]

A friendly reminder to keep it civil folks, no namecalling.

[Boddynock]

While I don't agree or disagree with Mendel pointing out that these +4 items with extras are now cheaper and thus easier to get, I will add that the other side to this is this: These items being in a shop changed the values of all items on the server, so technically it costs less to get them, but the items you now sell to earn that much are also worth significantly less.

With that in mind, whether or not these items are actually easier to acquire simply because they are in a shop remains to be seen.

[mrm3ntalist]

With that in mind, whether or not these items are actually easier to acquire simply because they are in a shop remains to be seen.

I dont know what there is to see.

Buying +4boots in the past meant you had to bid around 700K and usually there were other that counter bid.

Now, not only they are cheaper but there is no worry of someone bidding higher than you. That is the definition of easier ( better availability and better price ).

[Tantive]

With that in mind, whether or not these items are actually easier to acquire simply because they are in a shop remains to be seen.

I dont know what there is to see.

Buying +4boots in the past meant you had to bid around 700K and usually there were other that counter bid.

Now, not only they are cheaper but there is no worry of someone bidding higher than you. That is the definition of easier ( better availability and better price ).

The value of items you would sell on the auction houses have changed, with the standard set by the new epics.

[mrm3ntalist]

The value of items you would sell on the auction houses have changed, with the standard set by the new epics.

What do you mean?

[Tantive]

The value of items you would sell on the auction houses have changed, with the standard set by the new epics.

What do you mean?

Prices. What value you could receive from loot runs booty will be revalued in coin on the player market. Mostly, they will all be pushed down. So while epics are cheaper to buy, the value gained from a good item found that you would sell, is lessened. This in turn makes it more difficult to gain coin to buy the items from the epic store.

[mrm3ntalist]

The value of items you would sell on the auction houses have changed, with the standard set by the new epics.

What do you mean?

Prices. What value you could receive from loot runs booty will be revalued in coin on the player market. Mostly, they will all be pushed down. So while cheaper to buy, the value gained from a good item found that you would sell, is lessened.

Have you tried to sell anything lately? I have been selling daily +3 items and all are sold at the same price as before.

The big devalue is for epic items such as +4boots or +4amulets. Good luck selling those for even half the price they were sold before the epic shop.

Anyway, I am convinced. Lets roll back the server vaults and remove the epic shop

[Tantive]

How exactly the pricing has effected, I will leave it to those who play the market and feel the trends. That said, the shop has been placed recently. And the epic items are slowly coming to the market by players buying them, and selling them on the surface. I wouldn't expect an immediate change.

[mrm3ntalist]

How exactly the pricing has effected, I will leave it to those who play the market and feel the trends. That said, the shop has been placed recently. And the epic items are slowly coming to the market by players buying them, and selling them on the surface. I wouldn't expect an immediate change.

Ye, i get it. You think that the epic is so bad, that anything is looked from a negative point of view. It doesnt matter that plain +4 items are sold for half the price, it doesnt matter that they are available to all, it doesnt matter that as you say, the items are still slowly coming in, later on even those would be sold less...

I just hope you could try to buy an epic item before this shop went in. Then you can tell me how easy that was. When you either had to buy it from the likes of me, or to compete against the likes of me.

[Kauaiian]

*snip*
When you either had to buy it from the likes of me, or to compete against the likes of me.

In which only a handful came even close!