Raising the Dead

[metaquad4]

So! Raise Dead and Resurrection are pretty cheap. Barring the bugs associated, why is it that priests charge gold, when adventurers never charge anything? Seems silly, considering the two spells don't actually cost anything to cast. This makes the whole thing rather easy. Perhaps, too easy!

I propose a change, to make death a have little more impact but to keep the server aligned away from a more hardcore mindset as well (such would only prove detrimental to us).

1) Remove the channeling from Raise Dead and Resurrection. It bugs out often.

2) Make Raise Dead cost 3000 gold pieces. Make Resurrection cost 6000 gold pieces.

3) Make priests charge 6500 gold pieces, as they are using resurrection. This also gives their church a donation, which is fitting for how they would actually operate.

4) Make Raise Dead and Resurrection have an impact on the character once they are raised. This is achieved by implementing the following together:
4a) Impose 10 negative levels upon being raised by Raise Dead, and 5 negative levels upon being raised by Resurrection. This represents both the loss of memory and strength that needs to be recovered. These negative levels will last 24 hours or until a Restoration/Greater Restoration spell is cast.
4b) Upon being Raised or Resurrected, the character is confused for 1d6 rounds, then knocked down for 1d2 rounds when the confuse elapses. This represents the mental strain of the resurrection and the confused state of the character. The character collapses after the confused state, and is back to normal after.

5) Change the Spirit Shaman's "Recall Spirit" to a Resurrection Spell 1/day instead of a Raise Dead Spell 1/day. Make it cost 50% of the regular gold cost.

6) When level 30s die, charge them 10*Level (3000) in gold if they speak to Myrkul.

7) When you die and get raised, you keep all negative effects you previously had (if possible). The exception to this are things such as paralyze, petrification, or other things that prevent movement.

This will make Raising the Dead have a cost associated for the caster, it will make casting from a scroll/wand more dangerous (normally, most who cast from a scroll aren't priests and don't have restoration on hand. Restoration scrolls and wands can then be used, as well), and it will make battlefield resurrections more risky (due to negative levels and confusion). It will, as well, serve to make death have more impact if the character cannot be immediately restored. This is due to the fact that (as we have the RP your character sheet rule), characters will need to RP those negative levels. As well, level 30s will have something to fear when speaking to Myrkul, same as anyone else.

At the same time, we won't be treading into the "hardcore" rule territory that would damage us, thus staying in keeping with our roots as a server.

[metaquad4]

As an alternative:

-Players can't die. Everyone has scrolls. There are no negative impacts either, so says my character sheet. Die? Cast it on them, have them stand up just fine. Fear of death? Eat your heart out!

-With channeling, clerics are actually more inefficient than scrolls.

-Do you have an ailment? Die and get raised. You are now cured of literally anything.

[Blackman D]

why is it that priests charge gold

because you are paying for a service...

and if you really wanted to aggravate people it would be more accurate and effective to have them require the proper amount of diamonds as a cost component, and if you have no diamonds the spell auto fails

with spirit shamans remaining unaffected because of their ability to speak with said spirit and convince it to return on its own

[Ariella]

Eh i would say go with the PnP cost if one is to be added, Although the channel really has to go. It is super buggy, The channel is broken by so many things and while broken you have to actually cast the spell separately x amount of times to finish the channel. Then it does not fix at all until you can rest.

[metaquad4]

why is it that priests charge gold

because you are paying for a service...

and if you really wanted to aggravate people it would be more accurate and effective to have them require the proper amount of diamonds as a cost component, and if you have no diamonds the spell auto fails

with spirit shamans remaining unaffected because of their ability to speak with said spirit and convince it to return on its own

If the cost is so dire, let's remove the cost (gold and time) from teleporting. Its clearly too much to bear, and is aggravating people like this will.

[Steve]

and if you really wanted to aggravate people it would be more accurate and effective to have them require the proper amount of diamonds as a cost component, and if you have no diamonds the spell auto fails

Yes please.

[flipside43]

Instead of basing this off of an economy dictated by established level 30 characters, why don't we base it off of the people who will be most effected, lower level characters and new players. So lets say four diamonds at 100 gold each. That's 400 gold if cast by a PC. Or leave it at 500 gold for an NPC. Plus price of scroll. This would mean putting in a diamond shop.

[Ariella]

Gem shop is a great idea, Especially if gems have a set value unaffected by appraise or buy/sell value.

[Blackman D]

Instead of basing this off of an economy dictated by established level 30 characters, why don't we base it off of the people who will be most effected, lower level characters and new players. So lets say four diamonds at 100 gold each. That's 400 gold if cast by a PC. Or leave it at 500 gold for an NPC. Plus price of scroll. This would mean putting in a diamond shop.

except...

raise dead

Hidden: show

Raise Dead
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 5
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: Dead creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than one day per caster level. In addition, the subject’s soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.

Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell loses one level (or 1 Hit Die) when it is raised, just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it loses 2 points of Constitution instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can’t be raised). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means. A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being raised, in addition to losing spells for losing a level. A spellcasting creature that doesn’t prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) has a 50% chance of losing any given unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell, in addition to losing spell slots for losing a level.

A raised creature has a number of hit points equal to its current Hit Dice. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of raising the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creature’s equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this spell.

A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.
Material Component

Diamonds worth a total of least 5,000 gp.

resurrection

Hidden: show

Resurrection
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 7
Casting Time: 10 minutes

This spell functions like raise dead, except that you are able to restore life and complete strength to any deceased creature.

The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death. (The remains of a creature hit by a disintegrate spell count as a small portion of its body.) The creature can have been dead no longer than 10 years per caster level.

Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of prepared spells. However, the subject loses one level, or 2 points of Constitution if the subject was 1st level. (If this reduction would bring its Con to 0 or lower, it can’t be resurrected). This level loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means.

You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. You cannot resurrect someone who has died of old age. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be resurrected.
Material Component

A sprinkle of holy water and diamonds worth a total of at least 10,000 gp.

so diamonds would have to be worth 1,000g each and then raise dead would require 5 and resurrection requires 10

or you can put them at 500g and make it 10 and 20, but the value of the diamonds is already a set requirement

[flipside43]

I understand where you are coming from but in this case do we need to strictly follow PnP lore when its going to severely impact the play-ability of the module in early levels and for newer players?

Instead of basing this off of an economy dictated by established level 30 characters, why don't we base it off of the people who will be most effected, lower level characters and new players. So lets say four diamonds at 100 gold each. That's 400 gold if cast by a PC. Or leave it at 500 gold for an NPC. Plus price of scroll. This would mean putting in a diamond shop.

except...

raise dead

Hidden: show

Raise Dead
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 5
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: Dead creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than one day per caster level. In addition, the subject’s soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.

Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell loses one level (or 1 Hit Die) when it is raised, just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it loses 2 points of Constitution instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can’t be raised). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means. A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being raised, in addition to losing spells for losing a level. A spellcasting creature that doesn’t prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) has a 50% chance of losing any given unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell, in addition to losing spell slots for losing a level.

A raised creature has a number of hit points equal to its current Hit Dice. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of raising the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creature’s equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this spell.

A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.
Material Component

Diamonds worth a total of least 5,000 gp.

resurrection

Hidden: show

Resurrection
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 7
Casting Time: 10 minutes

This spell functions like raise dead, except that you are able to restore life and complete strength to any deceased creature.

The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death. (The remains of a creature hit by a disintegrate spell count as a small portion of its body.) The creature can have been dead no longer than 10 years per caster level.

Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of prepared spells. However, the subject loses one level, or 2 points of Constitution if the subject was 1st level. (If this reduction would bring its Con to 0 or lower, it can’t be resurrected). This level loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means.

You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. You cannot resurrect someone who has died of old age. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be resurrected.
Material Component

A sprinkle of holy water and diamonds worth a total of at least 10,000 gp.

so diamonds would have to be worth 1,000g each and then raise dead would require 5 and resurrection requires 10

or you can put them at 500g and make it 10 and 20, but the value of the diamonds is already a set requirement

[metaquad4]

We were homebrew from the moment we started playing on nwn2. Of course we can modify the requirements to best fit the server's needs.

[Blackman D]

I understand where you are coming from but in this case do we need to strictly follow PnP lore when its going to severely impact the play-ability of the module in early levels and for newer players?

why would it? death affects epics way worse than it does new and low levels, its much easier to make up 500xp than it is 2500xp

[flipside43]

I understand where you are coming from but in this case do we need to strictly follow PnP lore when its going to severely impact the play-ability of the module in early levels and for newer players?

why would it? death affects epics way worse than it does new and low levels, its much easier to make up 500xp than it is 2500xp

Fair enough!

[Aeb Ankor]

For years Diamonds have sold for ~5000gp regularly on the Auctioneer and RP trading, why would it not just be Raise Dead = 1 Diamond, Resurrection = 2 Diamonds???

Who has or even has inventory space to carry around multiple stacks of diamonds for the off chance you want to save SOMEONE ELSE at 5 to 20 for each casting? Ridiculous.

Just say 1 or 2 and call it good enough to move toward PnP.

Adding diamonds to gem shops would spoil nearly all RP player to player diamond trading. If there is a shop to sell Raise Dead/ Res needed diamonds that is exactly the same as charging gold but adding inventory space for components (for only those two spells)... there is no value to the actual diamonds it is just who has the gold to buy them and have 100k gold in on hand diamonds to Raise a party or event group... Rich people, is who... poor people just lose exp. A poor character finds a diamond is it equal then to saving a life or their own life, thus diamonds would have value. Vendor shop diamonds = less RP and less value of life vs fear of death

Adding the gem shops that sell gems has already ruined the market for those other types of standard gem stones since who'd buy one from a player on a regular basis for more than a shop sell/ buy those for?!? Emeralds are far rarer and before modern times more valuable than diamonds and those are now easy to buy from the gem shops for less than a +1 weapon?!? Then you can sell them back for the weaker max vendor buy price... tiny margins to buy from player then transport to a gem shop just to sell for a bit of profit in bulk gems is a wasted use of gems in a fantasy setting.

[Kiran]

Not sure how this benefits roleplay... Just seems to make something more difficult than it needs to be currently.

Like making us only able to rest once a day or some such..