Barbarian build for my come back(looking for Feedback)

[Valefort]

45-50 AC is enough for the server, between high AC and DR this build has plenty of survivability but that won't help him much if he kills so slowly he'll get hurt by mobs rolling 20s. Aaaand if you go with a sword and a shield you don't have a ton of damage, even when raging : 1d8 (base) +4 (EB) + 10 (STR mod) + 3 (PA) = 21.5 which is playable but low for a meleer, you'll need some time to kill your enemies, which doesn't go well with short rage duration.

This build has 8 rages per day, extra rage and extend rage I feat taken into account that's a rage duration of :

8 *(8+ CON mod +5) = 8 * 20 = 160 rounds, 16 minutes of rage per day

It's playable but not comfortable imo, the rest timer is superior to 16 minutes eventually.

[WhatsInTheBox]

I could go aasimar but an annointed knight isn't so much a knight as it is just a dude who studied some alchemy and learned how to use some oils and what not. At least I don't think they are any sort of actual knight?

[Valefort]

From the class description :

The anointed knight is a holy soldier who has taken great pains to learn the intricacies of alchemy in order to become a more capable combatant. Armed with an ancestral weapon, she searches for obscure lore, consults with alchemists and sages, and communes with the powers of good. Her unquenchable thirst for knowledge is matched only by her extraordinary combat prowess.

An anointed knight crafts and draws power from magically created oils. By anointing herself with these oils, she unlocks new supernatural powers within her being. She also coats her ancestral weapon with special oils that bestow additional qualities upon the weapon.

Anointed knights are typically paladins or fighters with one or more wizard or cleric levels. Occasionally, an anointed knight emerges from the ranks of single-class wizards, sorcerers, clerics, or bards.

[WhatsInTheBox]

I thought base rage duration was 5 rounds plus the 5 extra plus con mod of 7 with gear = 17 rounds per rage. if its then 15 rounds per rage at 8 uses = 120 rounds of rage or with extend rage I instead of PA as you say 160 rounds. With northlander hewing AND PA using a two handed weapon I'd have a 48 AC and a 41 ab (44 if you count expose weakness as AB) and I'd do 49 dmg per hit. (I'm adding +1 elemental dmg from the annointed knight weapon and using a base +3 EB weapon as my sample with no added dmg on it. )

and 4 attacks a round.

If I try to increase my damage past 40 something I'd have to go with a frenzied berserker version but then I'd lose alot of saves and AC likely from not taking AK prolly.

For pure damage builds unfortunately its best to go with a fighter frenzied berserker build I'd think but that wouldn't be a barbarian build : P. I'd also have a 11 str mod when raging not 10 . 21+12(10 from rage 2 from item)= 33.


I would like to get tankiness and amazing damage but I don't think there is anyway to do that without being a fighter frenzied berserker WD .

I mean these barb buffs helped but they still aren't as good as other classes unfortunately but its enough to make me willing to try and play one.

My RP reasoning for taking AK was going to involve lycanthropy and his interest in finding a cure for it, not for himself but for someone else. However now I feel crappy about taking AK :S . Damn... I dunno what the hell I'm gonna do now lol.

I really wanted to play a barbarian and make it as strong as possible but I don't think I'm satisfied with these numbers...

Screw it, just gonna do it. Right? he doesn't have as much more lore or craft alchemy as I'd like for the RP of AK but.... I can't spare any more skill points to it.

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

I have the same problem with deciding how to build Barbarian. There are couple of key points to consider, first being wether or not to go full STR or balance CON and STR.

Strength version - pick a race which has bonus to STR. This way, you replace 3 EDR feats which you would normally pick if you had 21 CON with 3 Great Strength feats. With this, 20 starting STR score, 2 from item, 10 from Epic Rage you end up on 42 STR score which equals +24 to damage with a two handed weapon, and allows you to knockdown foes regulary even without Improved version of the feat (this also allows you to save up on Intelligence score, you can easily leave it at 10 as Barbarian naturally has 4 skill points per level).

If you want a more balanced build, you can end up on 38 STR (this way you won't have to take Great Strength feats, or you can pick a non STR bonus race).

Other version is 22 STR/21 CON which allows you to qualify for both Epic Rage and Epic DR feats - you get much better defense but 4 AB and 6 damage less than STR version.

However, you have to keep in mind your Rage duration. That is the other key point. You live and die by your Rage as a Barbarian. I did some tests and the way I understand base duration is 10 rounds (with the new changes) + CON modifier and Extend Rages.

With rest timer set to 30 minutes for 30 level character, you will want at least 20 minutes of Rage duration. Here, the CON version of the build is at advantage because the modifier efectivelly counts as an additional Extended Rage feat (+7 modifier versus +2). A full, 30 level barbarian with 24 CON can probably afford not to take feats (Extended Rage/Extra Rage) but only buy that amulet. This way, his rage duration would be :

Rage duration :

10 base + 7 modifier + 5 Extend Rage = 22 rounds x 10 uses per day = 220 rounds which equals 22 minutes of Rage. With that, you will be able to cover 73% of your time with Rage, which is passable, IMO. Any other version and you will have to skip on the item and pick the whole line.

Small digression regarding the item, since it is important factor - the alternative cost of using this item is for example an amulet which grants +3 to universal saves, which is a thing to consider.

And last, you have to decide wether or not to go full 30 Barbarian, or 20 Barbarian/10 AK or something else (but AK 10 is by far the best choice of all the multiclass options, IMO).

So, with a base of 20 Barbarian, with the 10 next Barbarian levels you get :

+3 bonus epic feats (24th, 28th, 30th levels)
+2 uses of Rage per day
+3 DR
+20 HP (when compared to d10 hit die classes)

10 levels of AK will grant you :

+2 bonus epic feats (9th and 10th levels)
+2 bonus mandatory feats (Blind Fight and Toughness) + Alertness
+1d4 extra damage
better Will save
-1 requirement feat (Iron Will - but it has it's uses)
access to Heal, Spellcraft and Tumble (effectivelly +2 AC and +3 to saves versus spells)

So effectively, bonus feats cancel each other out, with AK version losing on 3 DR and 2 uses of Rage for +1d4 damage and much better Will save as well as access to Heal, Tumble and Spellcraft skills.

IMO, AK version is clearly better, but the downside is that is really hard to justify mixing Barbarian and Anointed KNIGHT. The only version in which Barbarian 30 would be better is the one I mentioned earlier - with 24 CON and not having to pick Extended Rage line of feats and Extra Rage (5 feats saved) you can round up your character with other essential feats which you would be hard pressed to fit otherwise. (Steadfast Determination, Luck of Heroes, Able Learner etc).

So, to summarize, you have to consider 3 key points when building the "new" Barbarian :

1. STR or CON version
2. Rage duration (amulet?)
3. Barbarian 30 or 20

[WhatsInTheBox]

Ok So one thing... I've heard the rest timer at 30 is 30 minutes and I've heard its 20 minutes.... which is it?

[Valefort]

It's 45 seconds per HD, with some exceptions for low levels.

45*30 = 22 minutes 30 seconds

[WhatsInTheBox]

Thanks!

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

It's 45 seconds per HD, with some exceptions for low levels.

45*30 = 22 minutes 30 seconds

Good to hear, this changes things.

[Steve]

I built a Dwarven Barbarian/Dervish recently, that does not maximize Rage duration/use, but can compete when not Raging:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?255610

DR matters a lot, I've learned. High HP matters a lot, as well. I've learned to build considering AC more important than AB or DMG, but, one cannot forget the latter two either.

I think what is great is that QC managed to look at the Barbarian base class and provide upgrades that make a straight 30 build exciting to play, however, one can easily multi-class a Barbarian and get some fun options out of it.

MORE FUN!

[WhatsInTheBox]

Does anyone know if the strength from frenzy stacks on top of rage as perhaps just a flat AB and dmg bonus?

If so .... http://nwn2db.com/build/?259539 that build while raging and frenzying would have a 45(42 without frenzy stacking) ab with IPA and Northland hewing on and do 2d6 + 24(str and a half) +4 EB + 16 northlander hewing +20 IPA= 76 damage a hit(without frenzy stacking or 79 with frenzy stacking) and 4 attacks a round regardless while frenzying because I'm fairly sure that part would still be active. Obviously the saves and AC are garbage so it'd be a kill before you get killed sort of character if I did use that build

[ARHicks00]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?256647

Fighters can get Fort 20/Will & Ref 16 and 49 AB (54 AB with the current items on server). There AC can reach 45 AC (With all item considered and a 10 tumble), but AC 47 if you get a martial weapon instead of exotic weapon. (46 if you get an exotic weapon as you get defensive feats) Despite being a feat based class, end up with less than other classes and mediocre feats that do very little once you reach epic levels. Because Tumble got gutted for all fighter type builds (Don't know why), would only need to invest 10 skills instead of the full 30. What happens to other 20 minute point is up to you, but Fighters don't have many venues for the skill points.

Now you can take what I showed you in this build and apply it to the barbarian and you would get a similar AC and AB, but far less feats, skill, and saves. I like barbarian in PNP, but they leave much to be desired in NWN2 as they come off as featless fighters. With that being said, I understand you wanted to play a Barbarian roleplaying wise and I'm not discouraging you from that, but gameplay wise, Fighters are superior and you're better off going fighter as a barbarian, you're trying to get the same items as a Fighter anyway.

[Valefort]

Evasion ?

DR ?

AC when two-handing ?

Take another look at Barbarian and come again ARHicks00 ! They allow different playstyles.

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

Barbarian 30 will have 17 DR, 10 AC and 360 HP more than Fighter 30, as well as Evasion and Expose Weakness. I don't see how they even compare. Fighter is an excellent class when used as a platform or a dip.

[ARHicks00]

Evasion ?

DR ?

AC when two-handing ?

Take another look at Barbarian and come again ARHicks00 ! They allow different playstyles.

1. You realize Evasion is only good with a high reflex save right?

http://nwn2db.com/build/?257877

When a fighter puts evasion to use that have to pair up with a class(es) that has high Ref to use it properly. You're taking a class that's highest Ref is barely over 13 on a given day. Even with a reasonable amount of universal saves and dexterity item, I can a barbarian getting 19 vs a possible 26 to 32. (18 to 24 with frenzy berserker) I imagine at epic levels the DC is around 36 to 40. (Highest spell DC is 44) A normal fighter get Ref 18 to 24 as well.

2. DR is good against physical attacks, but some early and high level characters like the ooze and giant rely more on elemental attacks than physical attacks. I'm not saying DR isn't good, but in the long run you are relying on the same items as Fighters, which is to reduce elemental damage.

3. Yeah, I read up on that Northern feat and it is access to everyone as I playing a bard when I saw the feat in my general feats selection. Fighters can do both one hand and two hand.

On thing you didn't mention is Ww Frenzy Barbarian get +7 to 9 extra AC in the long run, if they get epic rage.

Barbarian 30 will have 17 DR, 10 AC and 360 HP more than Fighter 30, as well as Evasion and Expose Weakness. I don't see how they even compare. Fighter is an excellent class when used as a platform or a dip.

17 DR is through Constitution build. They can't get without investing in that, which means they'll have lower AB and damage.

9 AC Ww Frenzy gives 5 extra AC and Ice Troll give +8 extra AC, but the natural AC does not stack. A Barbarian will have 420 HP yes, but if you pick Ww Frenzy, you won't get any Con bonus than standard rage. If you go Constitution, you'll end up with a lower AB and damage.

Expose Weakness is good for one on one pvp, but -3 AC and period damage against hordes of enemies? Great Cleave> EW