Going to Leave the Evil to the DMs

[Steve]

Steve, your main problem with evil (I won't speak for your other PC's because I haven't interacted with you on them) has always been that you detest the idea of being the indian and want the chieftain position too badly.

Well, thids, I appreciate the observation. I'm somewhat surprised by this, because I would say you are confusing my desire to make things happen, with the need to be chieftain. You may remember that in the last chance we had to RP Evil characters together, my toon specifically asked what would "prove" his merit to those of more established Evil background/guilds, and pretty much, none would speak up or make use of that offer. If that isn't knowing when to play subservient when necessary to build up the Evil (relationship), then yes, I guess I am misguided. Which then, is another reason for me to step away from it, right?

I can honestly tell you I've never, ever had one inkling of a desire to be chief of the Zhents, of the Thayans...though I had hoped to share-build up the TG a long time ago, but that Player had to focus on RL instead of keep the push going. But the TG isn't really evil....

...shoving it in their face, thus achieving the opposite effect.

Agreed. My Evil RP interest is Chaotic Stupid trying to bash in heads. But if you are talking about Max in your references, well..the dude DOES have a giant evil castle at his back, so rightly so, he should be feared. If one extrapolates from that to say that to be feared, a PC needs to fit within a larger context, well...maybe very, very true. However, having tried to make the context of the Church of Umberlee have any real validity and fearrespect in Baldur's Gate, well, that failed because not a single PC even should one ounce of fear toward the Bitch Queen, and her powers. Only mockery.... So if it takes 2 to tango, then one half was not wantin' to dance the dancy dance.

As for NPC's? Put in an effort into typing out your RP, and roll your intimidate then watch them soil themselves. Seriously, the current DM team is highly receptive of such RP from my experiences.

Have had zero IG contact with DMs and Events since Bloodlust retired, related to Evil RP. That is an entire year of nothing. Not going to spend another year hoping this is my year! lol. But in that year, I did ask a number of times for support, but as it is the DMs prerogative, they only shall pick up RP ideas when they have a desire to engage in it. And I respect that.

Which...brings me back to the ideas of any form of Evil RP consortium, so that the few-but-spread-out players of Evil RP could have reason to be together and then VERY LIKELY get DM support for ideas/events/etc. So, maybe that is happening know, I can't say...because I was shut out of RP from OOC disagreements...don't you remember!??

But cheers, thids.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

In my experience too many players want to be cartoon evil. They threaten, insult, and chase off everyone. When they encounter someone who doesn't feel threatened they assume it is ooc or a cheap feat/heroism spell. Most likely it is because the last 9 people that character met all said a variation of "fear me cuz I'll kill you in a heartbeat". If I encountered that in real life Is stop being scared too.

I have never encountered an evil character portrayed like Lex Luther, Anton Chigurh, only Zeno came close to a Joker evil, and I have never seen a Bizarro evil. People seem to only portray a secret evil in the low levels to survive the grinding with goodies or to spy.

TLDR: If you think your evil character should be feared they are a dime a dozen.

[kkrazlite]

Going to give you my honest opinion here steve. . .

Coming from a person who has played Evil on this server since 09. . . There is a bit of a learning curve when trying to pertain the title of "Evil". . . There are different types. . . different avenues you can take. . . different catch phrases you can use. . . But nothing comes close to actually pulling out your cards when things are happening. . . I find that alot of the Evil players that i knew over the years NEVER. . . And i mean only once in a blue moon threw down their black eyes red dragon evil card in main DM event opportunities. . . They like to talk about how they are thieves and robbers. . . How they work in the shadows and "Obtain" information from the goodies. . .

But for what. . . When i do evil i prefer mine to be seen clearly. It is not always a smack in your face storm lord of destruction Zeno Zelot (Who mind you did destroy a whole town in an event shout out to that DM who helped me with that I won't give out his name though. . .) But there are ways to make your character even more scary that people DON'T want you to play your hand of cards and choose not to mess with you because of it. Even now. . . I play a character who is similar to Zeno but not an all out evil war master. . . Everyone know's he is evil. . . He summons undead. . . He turns into demons and devils in-front of everyone without a care in the world. . . He conjured a whole blizzard with the help of some of his loyal subjects and made a town into a tundra. . . But the best thing about it is he does it and people have tried to stop him. . . Three days ago marked his 4th survival of an assassination attempt on him from another PC.

Not only that but people fear him in a since that they choose to stay on his good side for the sake of security when in his presence.

You don't always need to be a leader to get things done on the evil rp side of the world. . . But you don't need to be a follower as well. Evil can be done with or without DM's and or a guild all it takes is the dedication to show those who view your character that their's a dark aura about you. . . And when it comes down to it throw down your cards when needed.

(( I can't tell you how many times ive had to kill someones Angel that summoned next to me))

In short steve. . . I wish you luck in what ever decision you choose man. . . There are evil oppurtunites out there even a HUGE one coming this weekend. But there is always more room for inspiring good guys who do more then hang out at the FAI campfire and talk about what they had for breakfast.

Your will is your way and i respect that,

Pepper.

[Face]

Last time i asked a DM to do evil in one of his events all i had to do was give a reason and he told me to go for it and it was not the only time , Think you just have to ask and give reason that just what i seen so far from my side.

And i think we all remember Samara the black dragon

[Steve]

There are evil oppurtunites out there even a HUGE one coming this weekend.

And I wish you luck. If I were to attend, it would be the 6th time an event or meeting such as this was attempted in my 6 years of playing on BGTSCC, and I've never seen real changes to the environment emerge, from such a thing.

But always the chance that this time it is gonna be the ONE!!!

The Evil RP, for me, has not led anywhere significant, even when spending 1–2 years with a Character, working the Forums and IG interactions, trying to build up RP reason to see changes manifest. Actually, I did this twice. In an attempt to not be bitter about 4 RL years of trying, I'm just walking away from it. The game is supposed to be fun. If it isn't fun, then either you quit playing, or you change the paradigm. Simple as that. That is why I'm happy to cheer on the others that still want to try. Or...you can stop trying, and let the DMs provide the Evil RP, which is much easier!!

[Tekill]

I had a pc that started evil but was slowly transitioned towards nuetral. Still being newish to the server I found it hard do find anything evil to do. So he joined a neutral faction. Had lots of nuetral and good RP and nuetral and good adventures...lots of good and nuetral dm events. It was fun. But I still got bored with this toon.
I agree with what steve is saying and I have been at the same crossroads in terms of staying with the frustrating uphill battle of trying to RP evil toons or to turn good/nuetral.
I think the reason I stuck with evil was that the evil side of my evil pc's seem to have an extra dimension to them that I missed with this toon when he turned nuetral. I'm always looking for that opportunity to do something wicked. To cause a bit of trouble to try and convince otherwise goodish pc to do somthing wicked (darkside stuff). I like to try to team up with other evils and support evil factions that I align with. I just like being part of the society of evil. Its possible to do everything the nuetrals/goods can do plus try to get away with more.

I find BGTSCC to be a bit of a care bear server. Conflict and pvp basically has to be on a permission basis. People are touchy about pvp and bullying RP. I find that it tends to make a lot of RP flat predictable and homoginized.
I have noticed as a result of the overly strict rules it represses opportunities preventing great conflict between characters. I find, instead of RPing this conflict - said players just start ignoring each other instead, not wanting to deal with the hassle of navigating pvp rules/protocal. I think this happens so much that it creates the formation of cliques (partially made by IC reasons but also for OCC reasons). Instead of calling someone out, you just stick with you own kind/pals.
I have tried throwing gasoline onto this fire before, to stir up dialogue and maybe some change. We definately have all had this conversation multiple times- which shows there is a problem/issue. The evil players are the most vocal about it, but there are good and nuetral players also distressed about being ineffectual in this game.
In my opinion is the solution is to allow more non voluntary player versus player conflict. How we could do that, I am not sure exactly
The arguement I predict hearing is that basically some players just cant handle the added responibility and feedom any changes this would give us all requiring that the current rules need to be enforced. But I still think its the solution to the current problem. Players would be albe to better generate their own conflict and not need to wait for a DM event.
So yeah, long story short, the current system is not ideal for me personally but I can accept it because I am still having fun playing, and playing evil feels like it gives me more style and options.

Side note ,I have been trying to play more in the UD. If the player base could increase there- I think that is a great staging point for us evil minded players to get together- maybe start sticking it to the surface goodies!

[Aspect of Sorrow]

PG13, Medium RP, all for the middle ground "for all players" reason. PvP isn't effective if conclusion doesn't supply change. There's a myriad of solutions, but not many that fit this module.

[Vesgar]

I find BGTSCC to be a bit of a care bear server. Conflict and pvp basically has to be on a permission basis. People are touchy about pvp and bullying RP. I find that it tends to make a lot of RP flat predictable and homoginized.

I don't know, maybe you are right about that, but on the other hand, forced pvp would make the server population dwindle as the game is not balanced around the idea of pvp and people would be forced to choose from a handful of classes/builds if they prefer to live.

[Cubicle]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=56530

Ever thought about becoming a pro-evil DM? I know I have. Try out, see what happens!

[Steve]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=56530

Ever thought about becoming a pro-evil DM? I know I have. Try out, see what happens!

I was once Head DM of BGTSCC mate!! So, I know a few things (very few, a but a few!!).

[Steve]

PG13, Medium RP, all for the middle ground "for all players" reason. PvP isn't effective if conclusion doesn't supply change. There's a myriad of solutions, but not many that fit this module.

Yes, agreed. In a Gameworld where have have to practically ask permission to fight, and death is not an outcome but a willful choice, any real sense of Fear from going up against Evil Groups and Evil Plots, is a wash because you, as Player, know everything will remain static/status quo. So it is far to easy to roll your eyes and ignore role-play initiatives.

But Players rarely ignore DM initiative, because DM event = reward. I know that is kinda crass, but also very true. Reward also equals seeing the environment change (possibly), from your PCs actions. I'd say the biggest reward for RP effort!!!

[Face]

I had a pc that started evil but was slowly transitioned towards nuetral. Still being newish to the server I found it hard do find anything evil to do. So he joined a neutral faction. Had lots of nuetral and good RP and nuetral and good adventures...lots of good and nuetral dm events. It was fun. But I still got bored with this toon.
I agree with what steve is saying and I have been at the same crossroads in terms of staying with the frustrating uphill battle of trying to RP evil toons or to turn good/nuetral.
I think the reason I stuck with evil was that the evil side of my evil pc's seem to have an extra dimension to them that I missed with this toon when he turned nuetral. I'm always looking for that opportunity to do something wicked. To cause a bit of trouble to try and convince otherwise goodish pc to do somthing wicked (darkside stuff). I like to try to team up with other evils and support evil factions that I align with. I just like being part of the society of evil. Its possible to do everything the nuetrals/goods can do plus try to get away with more.

I find BGTSCC to be a bit of a care bear server. Conflict and pvp basically has to be on a permission basis. People are touchy about pvp and bullying RP. I find that it tends to make a lot of RP flat predictable and homoginized.
I have noticed as a result of the overly strict rules it represses opportunities preventing great conflict between characters. I find, instead of RPing this conflict - said players just start ignoring each other instead, not wanting to deal with the hassle of navigating pvp rules/protocal. I think this happens so much that it creates the formation of cliques (partially made by IC reasons but also for OCC reasons). Instead of calling someone out, you just stick with you own kind/pals.
I have tried throwing gasoline onto this fire before, to stir up dialogue and maybe some change. We definately have all had this conversation multiple times- which shows there is a problem/issue. The evil players are the most vocal about it, but there are good and nuetral players also distressed about being ineffectual in this game.
In my opinion is the solution is to allow more non voluntary player versus player conflict. How we could do that, I am not sure exactly
The arguement I predict hearing is that basically some players just cant handle the added responibility and feedom any changes this would give us all requiring that the current rules need to be enforced. But I still think its the solution to the current problem. Players would be albe to better generate their own conflict and not need to wait for a DM event.
So yeah, long story short, the current system is not ideal for me personally but I can accept it because I am still having fun playing, and playing evil feels like it gives me more style and options.

Side note ,I have been trying to play more in the UD. If the player base could increase there- I think that is a great staging point for us evil minded players to get together- maybe start sticking it to the surface goodies!

Remove the rp out and watch how toons start to behave difrent.
And for all of you who think there would be a pvp flood think agen , When players know there are consequences they realy start to think twice before they do any thing in the game world and thats a good thing in my opinion.

[Steve]

When players know there are consequences they realy start to think twice before they do any thing in the game world and thats a good thing in my opinion.

I can't agree with this more. Thanks for posting it Face.

[Face]

Its logic mate

[Invoker]

if you are within a Good Side Group (DA, EDE, OSR, KH, EC, etc.)

I don't get where people get this notion that EDE is a "good side group". So weird.

i do not oppose PvP, i usually stray away from it because of OOC feedback. in PvP, i treat the players with respect and expect the same with sad disappointment.

Sadly, agreed in toto.

Our PCs are outside this reality. How do I know? PCs only "die" when the Player retires them.

That's surely a very big problem.

"Oh look! It's a creepy masked guy lurking in the shadows! He must be really evil—or ugly—if he's too afraid to show his face!" I actually had something like this happen just three days ago. I logged off because of it, since last time I had something similar happen, and I PvP'd those "without fear," I received a bag of (#2) in Tells about how my high level Character shouldn't be trolling low level areas and what super (person) I was!"

Well, at least you got them to consent. When it happened to my character, those people literally ignored my actions from there on because they were afraid to PvP, but also didn't want to lose face taking the RP out.

There's plenty of fear. I am by now fully convinced lots of players (so, OOCly) live in perpetual fear. But it's the damaging kind, it's fear of the wrong things (like losing PvP, or losing in events, or other OOC forms of "losing" which are anything but).

On the other hand, I have found evil characters to be the least susceptible to RPing fear. No matter how you approach them, majority of them will be defiant and try to measure e-peens with you. Then again, everyone reserves the right to have their PC's react to other PC's as they wish, regardless of motivations.

Because of the above mentioned meaninglessness of death, and the fear of "losing", I can't even remember one single time anyone even tried to scare my character.
Perhaps the only one was Golem's shadow demigod Shovotar, and he did quite a good job of it, right before pounding him to dust in an amazing event. Good times.

As for NPC's? Put in an effort into typing out your RP, and roll your intimidate then watch them soil themselves. Seriously, the current DM team is highly receptive of such RP from my experiences.

It's been my experience through the years as well.

I did ask a number of times for support, but as it is the DMs prerogative, they only shall pick up RP ideas when they have a desire to engage in it. And I respect that.

I've always believed active DMs are there to help and support everyone asking, their prerogatives being the relevant timeframe and degree of effort they can afford.

Don't know if anything changed, these days, but I guess (hope?) not.

Most likely it is because the last 9 people that character met all said a variation of "fear me cuz I'll kill you in a heartbeat". If I encountered that in real life Is stop being scared too.

Because you would be dead. You'd stop living, first, and corpses don't scare easily.

Remove the rp out and watch how toons start to behave difrent.
And for all of you who think there would be a pvp flood think agen , When players know there are consequences they realy start to think twice before they do any thing in the game world and thats a good thing in my opinion.

+1

And extended to "meaningful" deaths' consequences.

Playing Evil isn't the problem at all.