Ideas to help new players settle on BG

[dedude]

There seem to be this weird notion that any level below 30 sucks, and not until you reach that ultimate level will you be able to have fun and enjoy your character. Well my guess is, if you feel like that you will probably be disappointed once you do get there. Life doesn't start at 30.

• Make the quests non-repeatable. Or at least with a level cap.

• Double the cap on RP xp

• Add the XP pool that was suggested, but give it a low-ish cap so you need to go drain it regularly. This should alleviate at least one possible exploit.

• Re-introduce the level cap on chests. I hate seeing higher level characters running in mindless circles each reset, very immersion breaking.

• Bump the loot drops + xp from boss'es way up. This can include chests and treasures at the end of dungeons as well. Give people an incentive to group up and go do that hard dungeon instead of just rolling through the orc cave one more time.

• Challenge the area builders to come up with dungeons that require a group with multiple roles

[Steve]

There seem to be this weird notion that any level below 30 sucks, and not until you reach that ultimate level will you be able to have fun and enjoy your character.

Yes, this is more or less the Unsolvable Issue. There are plenty of reasons behind this, of course, but I'd like to point out just 2: 1) when you have a sandbox with Levels 1–30, the lower-in-power levels will ALWAYS feel inadequate, and thus, the Players behind those "weaker" Characters will do whatever they can to "fix" the problem; 2) lack of Server Wide Campaign + regular DM Events that cater to low levels, so those PCs—and thus the Players behind them—can feel like having a low level PC can actually be MEANINGFUL to the Server (and not just an ego that sits out the fight or has little to offer the entrenched lvl 30 near god-like Characters that have been on BGTSCC for years).

But no one is listening.

Make the quests non-repeatable. Or at least with a level cap.

Some do have a level cap, currently. Nonetheless, it has been suggested many times in the past that Quests could be set to 1-time-per-PC, and drastically increase their 1-time payout. Thus, a newbie could gain some actual Levels on doing the quests right away, or, hold off until Epic Levels, and maybe even collect 1–2 levels from doing "The Quest Tour."

But no one is listening.

Double the cap on RP xp

Has been suggested many times before.

But no one is listening.

Add the XP pool that was suggested, but give it a low-ish cap so you need to go drain it regularly. This should alleviate at least one possible exploit.

Has also been suggested before, many times.

But no one is listening.

Re-introduce the level cap on chests. I hate seeing higher level characters running in mindless circles each reset, very immersion breaking.

Has been suggested before. But the reason it probably won't ever change is because the current paradigm seems to be to have Players chest-grind for low level items to sell at NPC merchants, so that they can acquire coin at Player-leisure, and then spend that coin at Epic Level NPC merchants (in the bloody, stinkin', immersion breaking Wal-Mart of the HELLZ!!!). So you'd have to convince some to change the change that was recently made to bring the Server to this point.

But no one is listening.

Bump the loot drops + xp from boss'es way up. This can include chests and treasures at the end of dungeons as well. Give people an incentive to group up and go do that hard dungeon instead of just rolling through the orc cave one more time.

Has been suggested before. But making difficult dungeons and setting the Loot drops requires someone to actually do this. That's volunteers and hours put into the Toolset.

Is anyone listening?

Challenge the area builders to come up with dungeons that require a group with multiple roles

There are already a few of these—the Devs have listened, from time to time. You'd be surprised about how many complaints are actually made because of this—people want to solo, mate!! And cooperation and grouping slows down the solo-loot-grind-free-for-all. Don't stop the rock!!!

But let's hope someone is listening!!

EDIT: Thing is, so much is actually said and discussed in private chats related to what the Server is about and where it is headed in the future. That the general Forum user is often kept in the dark, unintentionally I assume. Maecius was always a good chap by keeping the State of the Server regularly updated, and that really helps to show a sense of direction for BGTSCC. The mantra has been for a long time to not publicly say anything, so that one doesn't have to feel pressured to deliver. But I, for one, believe that more sunshine on the admin of the Server AND some detailing of what is being developed, helps the community-at-large feel like they are "in the know" and actually part of what is going on here...beside the Role-play IG aspect of the Server.

[Rhifox]

There seem to be this weird notion that any level below 30 sucks, and not until you reach that ultimate level will you be able to have fun and enjoy your character.

Yes, this is more or less the Unsolvable Issue. There are plenty of reasons behind this, of course, but I'd like to point out just 2: 1) when you have a sandbox with Levels 1–30, the lower-in-power levels will ALWAYS feel inadequate, and thus, the Players behind those "weaker" Characters will do whatever they can to "fix" the problem; 2) lack of Server Wide Campaign + regular DM Events that cater to low levels, so those PCs—and thus the Players behind them—can feel like having a low level PC can actually be MEANINGFUL to the Server (and not just an ego that sits out the fight or has little to offer the entrenched lvl 30 near god-like Characters that have been on BGTSCC for years).

I don't think #2 would change anything, honestly. It's the completion principle: leaving something incomplete is inherently unfulfilling. As long as there is a cap, people will want to reach that cap purely because it is there and they won't feel whole until they reach it. Even if you had DMs catering specifically and regularly to low level PCs, you'd run into the same problem you have already: That low level PCs are a revolving door of characters that either ascend to higher levels or stop being played after only a few months. Players are not leveling because of a "lack of content" at lower levels, or really a desire for greater power (though there is certainly the want to be at an equal playing field to other players). They are leveling for the sake of leveling.

It's the same principle that makes achievement systems in most of today's games such an addictive mechanic, and it's the same reason that on servers with lower level caps, there will be constant requests to raise the level cap. NWN2 allows for a 30 cap normally, and so players, naturally desiring completion, want the server to allow them to achieve that completion.


I do feel this is an unsolvable position, really. Every DnD server seems to have this need to impose a MMO-style leveling system on a game system that is set up for keeping all players at the same level as the other players. DnD is not designed or intended for this kind of level variance. I still feel that the best solution is to just eliminate the level range. Set the cap at wherever you want, but there should be no more than 5 levels between the highest level character and the lowest level one. Players should start at no more than 5 levels below whatever the cap is and all content should be balanced for that narrow level range. This would have the effect of insuring that all players in our community can adventure together, that issues of power equality are all but eliminated, and that PvE/DM content can be much more easily balanced.

[Diamore]

Trying to encourage partying, but wanting players out of areas where other players are.

Often while doing a quest, I will bump into new or low level characters grinding, looting or questing. This frequently prompts me to assist them, help out with quests, knowledge on item locations or roleplay with them in more general terms.

If a player is not interested in roleplaying while in quest/treasure areas, that is their loss. It really shouldn't be considered a problem as there is virtually no downside to having that character nearby or in that area. If they are not actively causing you grief, they will do their thing and leave. This is no different than someone using *Waves and nods* on the tradeway and moving on without any further interactions. It might be exceedingly light as far as RP goes but there is nothing wrong with that approach on the server.


The removal of quests.

Quests are good for players who have limited time and would still like to progress with their characters. They are also good for characters who struggle to xp when alone, have few options for partying or who can't stand grinding areas for experience.

The desire to progress with your character, or see improvements after your investments should not be lumped into a "grind for 30" mentality. I only reached level 30 two weeks ago, a majority of my experience coming from running quests and RP Xp as I utterly hate grinding.


Improvements I would like to see.

I would love to see the RP Xp improved in some way. Likewise, I would like to see a pool of bonus experience from RP Xp, a quest trigger or at each reset that increases experience gains from fighting monsters of a certain level or higher.

Changes to the caps on party levels would be a good way to smooth over several issues mentioned. Party numbers is another strange one, there is probably a reason for it, but when we have few areas that players actively group together to grind in, it seems silly to limit/punish them for doing so.

[chad878262]

The removal of quests.

Quests are good for players who have limited time and would still like to progress with their characters. They are also good for characters who struggle to xp when alone, have few options for partying or who can't stand grinding areas for experience.

The desire to progress with your character, or see improvements after your investments should not be lumped into a "grind for 30" mentality. I only reached level 30 two weeks ago, a majority of my experience coming from running quests and RP Xp as I utterly hate grinding

As someone who has been and will be again that player with limited time it would help FAR more to be able to progress the character through RP AND through XP in shorter periods of time rather than making a mad sprint around BG, followed by boat ride, boat ride, mad sprint around UB, boat ride or teleport, mad sprint around the southern and central maps, boat ride or teleport back to BG to turn everything in. Simply put the idea is not to do away with quests with the XP simply gone. The idea is to allow that XP to be gained in multiple ways.

You get a pool of XP, let's say for the sake of argument it's 10,000 XP in a pool. At the end of each week, any XP left in the pool are deleted and the pool for each PC starts again at 10K. If you do a quest, the XP reward is the same and comes out of the pool, if you kill a monster you get double the XP, and the non-doubled amount comes out of the pool (so a 30XP kill gives you 60 XP, the extra 30 coming out of the pool). When you RP, you gain double rewards with the bonus portion coming out of the pool. Empty the pool and no more quests grant XP and no more bonus XP from RP and kills.

So again, the point has never been about taking questing away from those who like it, but when my time is limited, the last thing I want to do is log in on the surface and run quests for 3 hours, especially if I know I am only going to play 3 hours the whole week. I want to RP and adventure, but if I do that I might finish, like one or two quests. Would be nice if I could just meet up with a couple other people and go on adventure without feeling like I lost the ability to advance my character.

This would also help with the large discrepancy in the Underdark. You can only get ~5K / week (a 1K quests has been broken since before I started playing down there consistently). Compound this by the fact that as you level closer to 20 (or 18 with an ECL2) the XP slows dramatically and it only gets worse in epics. A change like this would serve to somewhat normalize the UD with the surface since the weekly bonus would be the same, the fewer quests would no longer be a major issue.

[Face]

The removal of quests.

Quests are good for players who have limited time and would still like to progress with their characters. They are also good for characters who struggle to xp when alone, have few options for partying or who can't stand grinding areas for experience.

The desire to progress with your character, or see improvements after your investments should not be lumped into a "grind for 30" mentality. I only reached level 30 two weeks ago, a majority of my experience coming from running quests and RP Xp as I utterly hate grinding

As someone who has been and will be again that player with limited time it would help FAR more to be able to progress the character through RP AND through XP in shorter periods of time rather than making a mad sprint around BG, followed by boat ride, boat ride, mad sprint around UB, boat ride or teleport, mad sprint around the southern and central maps, boat ride or teleport back to BG to turn everything in. Simply put the idea is not to do away with quests with the XP simply gone. The idea is to allow that XP to be gained in multiple ways.

You get a pool of XP, let's say for the sake of argument it's 10,000 XP in a pool. At the end of each week, any XP left in the pool are deleted and the pool for each PC starts again at 10K. If you do a quest, the XP reward is the same and comes out of the pool, if you kill a monster you get double the XP, and the non-doubled amount comes out of the pool (so a 30XP kill gives you 60 XP, the extra 30 coming out of the pool). When you RP, you gain double rewards with the bonus portion coming out of the pool. Empty the pool and no more quests grant XP and no more bonus XP from RP and kills.

So again, the point has never been about taking questing away from those who like it, but when my time is limited, the last thing I want to do is log in on the surface and run quests for 3 hours, especially if I know I am only going to play 3 hours the whole week. I want to RP and adventure, but if I do that I might finish, like one or two quests. Would be nice if I could just meet up with a couple other people and go on adventure without feeling like I lost the ability to advance my character.

This would also help with the large discrepancy in the Underdark. You can only get ~5K / week (a 1K quests has been broken since before I started playing down there consistently). Compound this by the fact that as you level closer to 20 (or 18 with an ECL2) the XP slows dramatically and it only gets worse in epics. A change like this would serve to somewhat normalize the UD with the surface since the weekly bonus would be the same, the fewer quests would no longer be a major issue.

Sounds good make it happen

[chad878262]

Sounds good make it happen

I keep trying!

[Sun Wukong]

Edited upon the request of Chad...

I dont agree on increasing exp per kill. Too easy- the main reason mmo's all suck.
You can make the quests monthly instead of weekly. I betcha this has been recommended before, and it might create a good balance.

You do not have to agree on increase on experience. If you find it too easy, then it is a perfectly feasible option for you to make a character that is so terrible that you find the sufficient amount of challenge. If you need help with coming up with such a build, I am more than willing to assist.

As for making quests monthly, what positive change would that produce? It would only make the grind even more laborious, and with that an ever larger number of people would just say 'this task does not peck my peckish needs' and go on to far greener pastures.

And I agree about capping the chests. Chest grinding is very of unrealisic. Think about what these players are doing. Routinely searching the same areas, over and over again, waiting for the magic chest faeries to fill the chests so that the chests can then be farmed. Just silly.

Alright, how many Dungeon Masters do you have routinely on out of the maximum player cap of 75? One or perhaps two if you are lucky, or are you looking at a big fat number zero? As a player, do you demand that any DM that happens to log in has to magically whip up some entertainment just for you? This game runs on bunch of rules derived from a set called "DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS" ....

I have been going through the server after the chest change, and not once have I run into anyone running around unrealistically looting chests. A single character can loot one chest once per reset, and if you are able to witness someone loot the same area server reset after reset, don't you think that whatever you are doing to witness it... is beyond just silly, it is creepy and weird.

Edited by Hawke - Rule #2 broken. Please do not attack other players.

[Sun Wukong]

But no one is listening.

That is not true. You have gotten on board with some wild monkey-man ideas... You've even claimed the blame for some of them!

This server has always attracted very different kinds of people with very different preferences... It is impossible to cater for them all, and so often the status quo just gets maintained. But people are listening, it just takes time to move a mountain...

[dedude]

The idea is to allow that XP to be gained in multiple ways.

This guy gets it!

If you can get the same effect (xp+loot) from doing something fun, wouldn't you prefer that to grinding the same quest for the gazzillionth time.

(My autocorrect actually approved "gazzillionth" as a word )

[aaron22]

I guess I don't understand. If you don't like doing the quests. Don't do them. You don't like hanging out at the campfire. Don't do it. I don't like these things. I don't do them. I only do the parts I like. Sometimes rp has taken me from things I like, but that's because I wanted to. I have never felt pressure to do things I didn't like on the server. So I cannot understand why anyone else would.

But this thread is about how to get new players settled in on the server. What does any of this have to do with that.

[Tekill]

Edited...moderator dealt with him. So I changed my response.

One thing we need to do to keep players, is to respect other people's opinions and styles.

Instead of calling someone a cancer perhaps try and show them why their opinion or actions are wrong/hurtful.

Keep it positive- don't get mad...don't take things that irritate you so seriously. A lot of us are here to just have fun and to blow off some steam.

When folk take the game too seriously it can harshen other people's mellow. Keep it fun.

If we all focus on that it will seem a lot less intimidating to newbs

[DM Lobo]

Yes, please be civil guys -- no need to argue. That said, some great ideas here which I am sure QC have noted for future updates.

[WhatsInTheBox]

I'd say increase the XP per kill of creatures and have better loot drops so people don't have to nor feel compelled to grind so much. I personally see no issue with someone being able to get to level 30 in a month without having to play 10 hours a day or more.

[Face]

I'd say increase the XP per kill of creatures and have better loot drops so people don't have to nor feel compelled to grind so much. I personally see no issue with someone being able to get to level 30 in a month without having to play 10 hours a day or more.

I feel the same way.