Deities or Barbarians, which would you chose?

[kleomenes]

I've never really found that to be a problem.

My cleric can divine power for his entire rest timer. If he's soloing, he can stone body and battletide for most of it, too (approx. 20 minutes). They all last 56 rounds - so its not buff before every fight, its "reapply buffs every six minutes or so"

The only pre battle buff is lacing in a divine favour for tougher fights. Its a non-issue, really, although it does require a bit of management compared to barbarian, yes.

The biggest drag is the 20 buffs after resting, heh, and the weakness that having to buff so much brings to PVP (but my own crappiness at PVP is far more relevant there)

Obviously this is just in my experience, so a highly personal view

[dzidek1983]

6 minutes is an awfull short time when having fun...

[Invoker]

I've never really found that to be a problem.

My cleric can divine power for his entire rest timer. If he's soloing, he can stone body and battletide for most of it, too (approx. 20 minutes). They all last 56 rounds - so its not buff before every fight, its "reapply buffs every six minutes or so"

The only pre battle buff is lacing in a divine favour for tougher fights. Its a non-issue, really, although it does require a bit of management compared to barbarian, yes.

The biggest drag is the 20 buffs after resting, heh, and the weakness that having to buff so much brings to PVP (but my own crappiness at PVP is far more relevant there)

Obviously this is just in my experience, so a highly personal view

Clerics don't have that particular problem in PvP.

You just need to know which buffs you need, aside from the eternal ones (which are always up). Etherealness is your friend, in case you face dangerous foes.

In general, PvP on a Cleric is a war of attrition: you stay up, until you win.

Barbarian is good right now, but I would pick Cleric any day, especially because of the higher skill ceiling it has.

[dzidek1983]

PVP is a completely wrong point of view on our server, where nobody has to PVP ever.
You can run, talk your way out, etc. etc.
If you measure a characters strength its in PvM not PvP.

I guess ths skills ceiling was not a quote about skills per see as both classes have little skill points. I know that spells can do different things and add options to your character, but for thsoe to be effective you need DC's (well most of them), so you need to be a caster cleric which means you are even worse without buffs in melee.

And you cant really compare a caster character to a melee fighter. It doesnt add up.

For me a melee fighter that has all his power at a finger snap, cant loose it via dispelling and that power is comparable (if not greater) then a caster melee build will aways be better. Even if you consider that cleric can throw from a death ward or energy immunity.

The melee fighter has to balanced corectlly towards the enviroment, has to know how much AC is enough (some say you cant have enough end a barbarian can reach 70AC if you are such a person), ho much dmg is enough, what saves level is enough etc.etc.

If he is able to balance those things to match the dangers ahead then he will be sucessfull.

[K'yon Oblodra]

Clerics don't have that particular problem in PvP.

You just need to know which buffs you need, aside from the eternal ones (which are always up). Etherealness is your friend, in case you face dangerous foes.

In general, PvP on a Cleric is a war of attrition: you stay up, until you win.

Barbarian is good right now, but I would pick Cleric any day, especially because of the higher skill ceiling it has.

The problem with Clerics is their RP honestly think nothing is duller than Cleric RP... Well maybe that's just my opinion but they really are nothing I could currently imagine to RP... So zealous ;(

[Invoker]

Clerics don't have that particular problem in PvP.

You just need to know which buffs you need, aside from the eternal ones (which are always up). Etherealness is your friend, in case you face dangerous foes.

In general, PvP on a Cleric is a war of attrition: you stay up, until you win.

Barbarian is good right now, but I would pick Cleric any day, especially because of the higher skill ceiling it has.

The problem with Clerics is their RP honestly think nothing is duller than Cleric RP... Well maybe that's just my opinion but they really are nothing I could currently imagine to RP... So zealous ;(

Paladins are also zealous. Druids are definitely zealous.

I find Clerics and the aforementioned classes to be far from dull, RPwise.

Guess it's a matter of taste

[dedude]

To say all clerics are zealous is a bit of a generalization. It's like saying all fighters are grunts. Depends on the character, and definitely on the deity.

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

A well RPed cleric can be a immense asset to the whole server in a RP sense. I remember on a server called three kingdoms (NWN1) there was a guy who played a cleric so well and found a Paladin order with him at helm, I played one of these paladins. That was one of the best moments in my nwn time.

[Invoker]

PVP is a completely wrong point of view on our server, where nobody has to PVP ever.
You can run, talk your way out, etc. etc.
If you measure a characters strength its in PvM not PvP.

I mentioned PvP because the post I replied to refers to it.

Also, the statement "nobody has to PVP ever" is only valid if the player is willing to forfeit the encounter when the only "PvP Out" is surrender.

I guess ths skills ceiling was not a quote about skills per see as both classes have little skill points. I know that spells can do different things and add options to your character, but for thsoe to be effective you need DC's (well most of them), so you need to be a caster cleric which means you are even worse without buffs in melee.

And you cant really compare a caster character to a melee fighter. It doesnt add up.

"Skill ceiling" differences explained => a good player with a barbarian will have less chances to make a difference in comparison with a good player controlling a cleric (especially a caster cleric or a balanced cleric).

I can compare everything I am asked to compare. In the specific, the post I quoted was comparing Clerics and Barbarians.

Even a full WIS caster Cleric can melee just fine, btw.

For me a melee fighter that has all his power at a finger snap, cant loose it via dispelling and that power is comparable (if not greater) then a caster melee build will aways be better. Even if you consider that cleric can throw from a death ward or energy immunity.

I respect your opinion.

In my view, when soloing, the melee-oriented cleric is superior overall, but has a shorter time window with respect to the virtually unlimited one of the non-caster build.

In a party, the non-casting fighter is usually better as a combat force (because others buff/support him, and thus he becomes the primary source of damage, or "carry" ), while the Cleric is as good as before, and can throw in strong party support to justify his presence. Overall, a caster Cleric is better for party play with respect to, say, an EDM Cleric.

The melee fighter has to balanced corectlly towards the enviroment, has to know how much AC is enough (some say you cant have enough end a barbarian can reach 70AC if you are such a person), ho much dmg is enough, what saves level is enough etc.etc.

If he is able to balance those things to match the dangers ahead then he will be sucessfull.

The Cleric has to do exactly the same, only with different parameters. In fact, MORE parameters, which is another factor contributing to the aforementioned "skill ceiling".

[Steve]

I'm very pleased with how now, all the "Conans" of the Sword Coast, can truly live up to their moniker.

[arakes99]

I didn't expect people to really want to know how to make one of these...
I will make a DB build, link it and note the differences later today. To reach 62 AC you are using mithral FP, taking full tumble and taking tower shield specialization.

What's really the best way to make them is 20 barb/10 Dervish where you can use a 2 handed weapon. While raging in mithral BP you will hit 55 AC unbuffed, 59 with a shield brooch and more with ICE. If you dervish dance while in rage, you will then have an equally high AB and damage. Allowing this character to out tank and out damage almost any other build available during the rage/dervish dance.

While I don't mind melee classes bridging the power gap, pvp is a consideration. It happens all the time and what about all the other martial classes, yo?

[arakes99]

http://nwn2db.com/build/?264159

You take that, you swap out the epic toughness for fast healing 1 and 2.

Rapid Reload does not exist as a bonus feat on our server.

Expert tactician is Tower Shield Spec.

There's a missing feat here you can take at 30 for Epic Rage which now only requires 21 Str using the barbarian level 20 bonus feat.

I used one of the bonus feats from WOD they don't actually get here because I am missing the level 10 bonus feat barbs now get.

Also bear in mind on BG this build is easier as half orcs get bonus +1 to con, and as an earth genasi or dwarf it works just as good if not better.

While raging you sit at a happy and healthy 62 AC with a shield. Though you have 600+ HP, DR and regen so...do ya really need the shield?

[Sun Wukong]

I clicked on a topic that I thought was about "Diets of Barbarians, which would you choose?" - boy was I wrong. Well, there is a reason why my Barbarian is a Dragonslayer...

Anyhow, the matter of role-playing a cleric really depends on the deity - for it to be fun - you kind of have to find a deity that is fun for you, which means diggin up as much information as you can and there really is not much you can read in game. You need to dig up some old source books that I cannot even name, was it Tome and Blood? Or have bit less information by reading stuff written down in here: http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/Gods.htm - and do few more clicks to find the deity that interests you.

As for Barbarian - they tend to be bit one note... Raaah! Reeee! Whatever. Smash, foes, etc.

Build mechanics just is not the only aspect of this decision. You can be very powerful, but in the long run it is also about what you need to roleplay as. For example, my previous Barbarian Build of Barbarian/Dragon Warrior/Fighter was in all essence and purpose far superior to my current Barbarian/Dragonslayer - I just find the whole dragonslayer stick a rather more interesting.

As a Cleric 30 example, I guess I could point towards a bit of an oldie but stilla goldie. A level 30 EDM Cleric of Lovitar with domains [urlhttp://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Strength_(domain)]Strength[/url] and Fury. What we are looking at is the domain powers that remain a single use per rest, but together add +12 Strength, +7 Dexterity, +7 Constitution, +7 Attack Bonus, +7 Damage, and 14/DR for "5 rounds + Charisma modifier" - just imagine this build on an Aasimar. You do not really need more than 16 or perhaps 15 in Wisdom stat, you could leave your dexterity and constitution uneven too. It is just monstrours and you can buff up in relative safety under that Ethereal Jaunt or Sanctuary spell. You could even choose to leave your Strength at 22, and just pump up Charisma up to 24 which after Eagle's gives you 28... '14 round duration for those two domain powers' - and +18 divine damage with EDM, and +9 AC from Divine Shield - or perhaps you just want to pump more strength for baseline AB and damage. You could easily go for Improved Power Attack, or Improved Combat Expertise on top, and maybe even make use that Northlander Hewing to pummel some truly astronomical non-critical hits with all the clerical +damage buffs. I dare you, just do the math.

As a side note, you are also pretty good at turning/rebuking undead. Far better than the stock cleric with charisma of 10.

But again, the real downside is, you pretty much have to role-play a worshipper of Lovitar and that might or might not be your thing. Alignment is centered around Lawful Evil - and a being deprevared aasimar really fits the bill - but the question always remains. Do you really want to worship Lovitar for the maximum burst of power... ?



Edit, they have adjusted the Divine Wrath ability of Divine CHampion... Basically, Barbarian 20/Divine Champion 10 is now one of the best builds ever! Divine Champion even gets feats you can spend of Epic Damage Reduction, Epic Toughness, and Epic Prowess!

[Hawke]

Moved to proper area.

[aaron22]

Edit, they have adjusted the Divine Wrath ability of Divine CHampion... Basically, Barbarian 20/Divine Champion 10 is now one of the best builds ever! Divine Champion even gets feats you can spend of Epic Damage Reduction, Epic Toughness, and Epic Prowess!

and when i make side by side's of barb20/AK10 and Barb20/DC10, i still think the AK build is better. if you have MFP, then i could see the DC build being slightly better, but now you are placing the onus on a piece of gear that costs half a mil.