Master Archer - a ranged PRC

[Sun Wukong]

Master Archer

For a Master Archer, perfection is found in the mastery of a single ranged weapon. A Master Archer seeks to unite this weapon of choice with the body to make them one and to use the weapon as naturally and without thought as any other limb.

Requirements:
Race: Any
Alignment: Any.
Skills: Spot 4 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Feats: Weapon Focus in any ranged weapon (Shortbow, Longbow, Light Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Throwing Axe, Dart, Shuriken, or Sling), Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Dash


Class Features:
- Hit Die: d10
- Base Attack Bonus: High
- High Saves: Dexterity
- Weapon Proficiencies: None
- Armor Proficiencies: None
- Skill Points: 2 + Int Modifier.
- Class Skills: Craft Weapon, Intimidate, Lore, Parry, Spot, Taunt, Tumble


Class Abilities:
Level 1: Ki Damage 1/Day, Weapon of Choice
Level 2: Ki Damage 2/Day
Level 3: Ki Damage 3/Day, 1d4 Massive Critical
Level 4: Ki Damage 4/Day
Level 5: Ki Damage 5/Day, Superior Weapon Focus, Increased Multiplier
Level 6: Ki Damage 6/Day, 2d4 Massive Critical
Level 7: Ki Damage 7/Day
Level 8: Ki Damage 8/Day
Level 9: Ki Damage 9/Day, 3d4 Massive Critical
Level 10: Ki Damage 10/Day, Ki Critical


Weapon Choice: When characters acquires their first level of Master Archer, they must select a single ranged weapon type (Shortbow, Longbow, Light Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Throwing Axe, Dart, Shuriken, or Sling) as their Weapon of Choice. Their Master Archer abilities only function when they have a weapon of the selected type equipped.


Ki Damage: Once per day per level, a Master Archer may choose to make a special attack with her weapon of choice. If this attack hits, it automatically inflicts maximum damage.


Increased Multiplier: At 5th level, the Weapon Master’s critical multiplier with their chosen weapon increases by +1, i.e. x2 becomes x3, x3 becomes x4, etc.


Superior Weapon Focus: At 5th-level, the Master Archer gains +1 to their attack rolls with their Weapon of Choice.


Ki Critical: At 10th level, the Weapon Master increases their threat range by 2 when using their weapon of choice.


Massive Critical: At 3rd level Master Archer gains 1d4 Massivive Critical with his weapon of choice. This is improved to 2d4 at sixth level, and 3d4 at ninth level.

FEel free to comment if you would like to see this in game. It might get added.

[Tantive]

Now I like the idea of a nice archer prc as there are a few to choose from, but there are several existing prcs from sourcebooks to pick from which come close to what you are looking for.

For instance, Peerless Archer, from Silver Marshes sourcebook page 115. I wish I could link you easily but alcyius seems to be down.

There is also an archer prc which goes by the way of critical and keens named Deepwood Sniper from Masters of the Wild. I think this one is closer to what you have in mind.

Order of the Bow initiate seems to have 2 different variants after reviewal, complete Warrior and Sword and Fist.

Please don't think I'm trying to overwrite your suggestion, just simply wanting to notify you that in the sourcebooks there is one what looks like what you're trying to do here.

[Sun Wukong]

No problem whatsoever. It is basically just slightly adjusted ranged version of Weapon Master.

[K'yon Oblodra]

Feels very passive ability wise.

Would be cool if we could get some more active abilities besides the ki-damage.

Maybe something that ignores armor... A piercing shot dunno don't have the best ideas atm.

[Hrafnar]

I really like this. Sure it's a bit home-brewed but it feels a lot like the archer kit from the original BG, in the sense that that was the ranged equivalent of the kensai. Would play one for sure.

[AC81]

I think the increased multiplier and threat range are pretty OP when combined with many shot and rapid shot. Throw in the 3d4 mass crits and a longbow, that is 12d4 extra damage every crit. At least weapon masters have less attacks and have to get up close and personal to deliver their damage.
There are many ways to make non- AA ranged pc's, is this power leap needed?

[Sun Wukong]

I think the increased multiplier and threat range are pretty OP when combined with many shot and rapid shot.

Manyshot only applies to three attacks, and reduces the attack bonus of those attacks by 8 each. But in theory you could say that an archer with 26 BAB could get '10' attacks per round.

But a two handed Power Attack costs -3 AB and gives +6 damage. Improved Power attack costs -6 AB and gives +12 damage. With five levels of Frenzied Berserker we are looking at +10 damage with former and +20 damage with the latter.

Throw in the 3d4 mass crits and a longbow, that is 12d4 extra damage every crit.

That 12d4~ would be roughly +30~ damage per critical hit.

But, based on the weapon, that previously mentioned damage from Power Attack could be multiplied with 3, 4, or 5 on critical hits based on nothing but the weapon used with just 7 levels of Weapon Master.

At least weapon masters have less attacks and have to get up close and personal to deliver their damage.

Where they actually hold quite an advantage with their ability to perform Supreme Cleave thanks to the virtue of five levels of Frenzied Berserker. Whenever they kill an opponent, they get to do two additional attacks on a nearby enemy. Not to mention how their Strength ability modifier increases their AB and damage multiplied by 1,5, and multiplied further with critical hits.

There are many ways to make non- AA ranged pc's, is this power leap needed?

Could you present some examples?

[AC81]

Well, you didn't answer my last question, but yeah, here are some examples:

Bard26/Fighter4
Ranger30
Ranger21/Assassin9
F14/EA5/R3/Assassin8
R13/F12/EA5
F12/AK4/EA4/Assassin10
etc
etc
etc

Didn't even include Marksman builds (for when the prc is fixed), didn't explore all Ranger builds, nor all Bard builds, didn't include any Wilderness Stalker builds, nor any Shadow Dancer builds. Didn't include any Warsling Sniper builds. Didn't include any EDM ranged builds. Didn't throw in any rogue heavy builds, nor did I even consider Crossbow Sniper builds but I'm sure you get the idea.

The mention of -8 AB penalty due to manyshot is not a great argument, as we both know archers can get sky-high AB's, well in excess of 50 and they usually have HiPS. Hitting is not an issue for archers, nor will it ever be.

These guys don't need more damage (have you ever grouped with or played a dedicated archer?), they need ways to not get butchered at epic levels when they get surrounded. Same as most rogue builds really. But then, is that an inherent weakness that needs fixing?

So, my last question - is the power leap needed?

Edit: Also, forgot to mention zen archers and brutal throwers! Ranged characters have PLENTY of variety.

[Theodore01]

Slingers do need more damage to be useful in the epics ?
(i'm not talking about deathattacking-manyshot abusers)

The warsling PRC does not really help with that.
Maybe if the PRC would improve sling damage overall and not only at a ricochette throw.- but it does not help.
Another point what make slingers worthless is the decreased range (and therefore almost constant ab malus) they have nowadays.

[Sun Wukong]

Well, you didn't answer my last question, but yeah, here are some examples:

Bard26/Fighter4
Ranger30
Ranger21/Assassin9
F14/EA5/R3/Assassin8
R13/F12/EA5
F12/AK4/EA4/Assassin10
etc
etc
etc

Thank you.

Bard 26/Fighter 4 is a caster.
Ranger 30, Zen Archery or not, is a caster.
Ranger 21/Assassin 9 is caster.
Fighter 14/Elemental Archer 5/Rogue 3/Assassin 8 is a very easily dispelled caster,
Rogue 13/Fighter 12/Elemental Archer 5 is not a caster.
Fighter 12/Anointed Knight 4/Elemental Archer 4/Assassin 10 is a very easily dispelled caster.

Didn't even include Marksman builds (for when the prc is fixed), didn't explore all Ranger builds, nor all Bard builds, didn't include any Wilderness Stalker builds, nor any Shadow Dancer builds. Didn't include any Warsling Sniper builds. Didn't include any EDM ranged builds. Didn't throw in any rogue heavy builds, nor did I even consider Crossbow Sniper builds but I'm sure you get the idea.

Order of the Bow Initiate - is going to be renamed into Marksman? No issue with that from me. But as for the previously mentioned, etc... I believe we have established a bit of a trend here. Archers tend to be spellcasters - and in the odd case that they are not - there is a heavy investment for sneak attack dice. As for crossbow sniper feats, does the bonus damage even multiply on critical hits? (As for those builds in question, well, I would be surprised if those would differ from the template of a spellcaster with/or without sneak attack dice.)

The mention of -8 AB penalty due to manyshot is not a great argument, as we both know archers can get sky-high AB's, well in excess of 50 and they usually have HiPS. Hitting is not an issue for archers, nor will it ever be.

Let us look at the potential base damage multiplied on a critical hit with that Longbow.

1d8 (Base damage) + 5 (Mighty) + 8 (Feats) + 4 (Enchantment Bonus) = 21,5~

With this PRC as it is suggested, a critical hit would deal that potential 94,5~ damage on average.

Thus let us compare it to the Frenzied Berserker Weapon Master (12 levels in total) of earlier.

1d8 (Base damage of a longsword) +15 (Strength) +8 (Feats) + 4 (Enchantment Bonus) + 20 (IPA) = 51.5~

With the melee PRCs as they are, a critical hit would deal that potential 154,5~ damage on average. I am sure that both of us know that it is possible to get more damage than that simply be focusing on another weapon. Great Axe: 214~ on a critical hit. Scythe: 260~ on a critical hit.

These guys don't need more damage (have you ever grouped with or played a dedicated archer?), they need ways to not get butchered at epic levels when they get surrounded. Same as most rogue builds really. But then, is that an inherent weakness that needs fixing?

Currently I have wisdom based cleric archer, and a wisdom based ranger archer - and big surprise - both of them are spellcasters. I have grouped up with several archer characters, Arcane Archers or not, and some of them have had epic bows that leave my three epic ranged weapons to shame. As for the whole 'more damage thing' I'll get to it shortly.

So, my last question - is the power leap needed?

Edit: Also, forgot to mention zen archers and brutal throwers! Ranged characters have PLENTY of variety.

What I have suggested is a 10 level PRC that does nothing but grant +1 AB if it ever goes against a critical hit immunity and the big question is what are you going to spend your remaining three classes and twenty levels in. Moreover, if the members of QC feel that 5 levels is enough due to Increased Multiplier, it could be swapped to be granted at level 10, and Ki Critical could be offered at level 5. Moreover, the massive critical damage progression could be reduced by any number of ways. Perhaps 1d4, 1d6, and 1d8 or maybe a little bit more with 1d4, 1d8, and 1d12 - or whatever tickles your fancy.

But anyhow, it is a 10 level PRC and were you to look at the builds you mentioned before, you cannot really squeeze it in without also giving up something else in return.

And as for ranged characters having plenty variety... The only solid Brutal Thrower build I have come up with is a Ranger/Stormlord, and it is a spellcaster. The only solid Zen Archery thrower I have come up with was a Monk/Assassin, and it is a very easily dispelled spellcaster with sneak attack dice.

Moreover, as for Order of the Bow Initiate, or Marksman, it is a PRC that is limited to short and long bows. You get nothing with crossbows, throwning axes, darts, or shurikens. And honestly, how do you role-play being an Elemental Archer? What if the whole Anointed Knight with strange oils or Warrior of Darkness with scars is not your thing? What if being a 'Dragon Samurai' is not your character's cup of tea?

Now, this Master Archer PRC is something very easy to understand. You are agile and when your arrows hit - those hit true. You are basically Legolas from the LotR movie equipped with whatever ranged weapon you want, without the need for some weird spellcasting or to be sneaky for sneak attack dice's sake.

[Theodore01]

Wait, does a crossbow sniper need more damage ?

[AlfarinIcebreaker]

I would much more prefer if we delivered Hunter as a different option for archer characters.

[K'yon Oblodra]

I would much more prefer if we delivered Hunter as a different option for archer characters.

So want that hunter class!!!

[aaron22]

i have a pure archer PC. her spell casting is minimal and is dex based ranger, EA, OOBI, fighter. she has an AB ~60 and her initial MS flurry will connect for about 250-350 damage. she has an AC of 39 that i bring up to 43 with shield pot/spell. 49 with ICE. she uses mirrors and displacement to make her tough to hit when closed in on. and with nearly 400 HP's she has some room to get hit and not be toast. multiple DR mobs are a true weakness as with any dex based character that deal physical damage primarily. I do not feel that she is OP, but she is certainly not gimpy and if one builds properly (no massive self gimping) archers do not need more attention. they, like all fighters types, are VERY GEAR DEPENDENT. get the gear and your effectiveness and survivability will climb.

buff the archers? not needed. add PrC's that give archer builds a boost? not needed. but with that said, i wouldn't be apposed to being better

lets work on getting that Orc PrC going. vale's time could be better served elsewhere.

[Sun Wukong]

*Just looks at the responses and gives a long, long sigh.*

Well, how about you use the suggested PRC to present a build with it, since we seem to have the benchmark to compare it with.

So want that hunter class!!!

If my memory servers, it is going to be a Ranger Variant.

Wait, does a crossbow sniper need more damage ?

The question here is, does the crossbow sniper damage even multiply on critical hits?