Bear Warrior Action Bar

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K'yon Oblodra
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by K'yon Oblodra »

aaron22 wrote:can we offer a separate attack mode that applies damage in the form of slash(claw), pierce( teeth), bludge(paw) to all damage for a period of time.

i cannot see a reason that adamantine, silver, holy(unholy) or cold iron would be applicable for a bear warrior lore and practice. my guess is it would be a magical transformation that may need some requirements attached to it. similar to silver fang i suppose but that comes from divine classes so makes more sense that way.
Complete Warrior wrote: Many people, particularly those in “uncivilized” regions of the world, revere bears as symbols of the warrior’s strength and battle prowess. By adopting the bear as a totem anima, warriors of these people hope to tap into some of the bear’s strength. Bear warriors, through a special relationship with bear spirits, literally adopt a bear’s strength in the rage of battle, actually transforming into bears while they fight.

NPC bear warriors are usually the champions of barbarian tribes, rustic villages, or warlike temples. They lead other warriors not through discipline and order, but by the inspiring example they present.


It's not much but it mentions their spiritual connection... So I am not pulling this out of the magic hat when I mention holy damage.
about middle age bear warriors wrote: The shamanism of the pre-Christian Norse and other Germanic peoples took several different forms. Among the most common of these forms, especially for men, was the attainment and use of an ecstatic battle-fury closely linked to a particular totem animal, usually a bear or a wolf, and often occurring within the context of certain formal, initiatory military groups.

During the Viking Age, these “warrior-shamans” typically fell into two groups: the berserkers (Old Norse berserkir, “bear-shirts”) and úlfheðnar (pronounced “oolv-HETH-nahr” with a hard “th” as in “the;” Old Norse for “wolf-hides”). These groups were a late development of the earlier Germanic warband,[1] and shared much in common with the warlike shamanism of other circumpolar peoples.[2]

As far as we can tell today, the berserkers and úlfheðnar shared a common set of shamanic practices, with the only substantial difference being that the totem animal of the berserkers was, as the name implies, the bear, while that of the úlfheðnar was the wolf. These names are a reference to the practice of dressing in a ritual costume made from the hide of the totem animal, an outward reminder of the wearer’s having gone beyond the confines of his humanity and become a divine predator.[3] It’s hard to imagine a grislier or more frightening thing to encounter on the late Iron Age battlefield.


I am pretty sure the class originates from these fierce fighters and they were pretty spiritual so yea ointments and holy damage aren't a too wild assumptions. I actually read a book about Boudica it had pretty detailed descriptions of the life and the way celtic bear warriors fought and there was a lot of spiritual rituals to heighten their senses and poison their enemies with fear but also with actual poison that caused them to hallucinate.
Complete Fighter wrote: At 10th level, a bear warrior can assume bear form three times per day and can choose between black, brown, and dire bear forms. While in dire bear form, he gains a +20 bonus to Strength, a +2 bonus to Dexterity, and a +8 bonus to Constitution.


The Bear Warrior on our server got more defense but quiet a bit less strength and compared to what other classes get it feels like he gets relatively little. So I suppose a bit extra cheese wouldn't hurt it.
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Akroma666
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by Akroma666 »

K'yon Oblodra wrote:
Complete Fighter wrote: At 10th level, a bear warrior can assume bear form three times per day and can choose between black, brown, and dire bear forms. While in dire bear form, he gains a +20 bonus to Strength, a +2 bonus to Dexterity, and a +8 bonus to Constitution.


The Bear Warrior on our server got more defense but quiet a bit less strength and compared to what other classes get it feels like he gets relatively little. So I suppose a bit extra cheese wouldn't hurt it.
I've tried arguing the damage point to QC for the last 9 months and they aren't budging at this point and time. I agree that the class should have a slight damage boost, but its just not practical tactic for right now as I've tried this whole time and tried to compromise with my last suggestion being an offensive feat seen here: viewtopic.php?f=443&t=57952
The biggest problem is overcoming the DR while only dealing around 35 max damage a hit. DR 15/- creatues will drain your precious rage timer resources and spend countless swings dealing 10-15 damage while you are in "Super Bear" mode.

At this point I've temporarily given up and decided to shift my focus to making the class more dynamic. The biggest problem being that the class is a martial class and it cannot use any of the abilities that make martial builds dynamic and entertaining to play. You cannot assume a defensive stance, swap gear, pop a potion, spam heal kits, expose weakness, use any of the new combat focus feats, etc. So, how do we fix this, with new hotbar clickables. Honestly just expanding the hotbar by 2 additional abilities, one to combat DR targets, and one focused on group gameplay would offer a lot to this class.

I noticed no one is focusing on my roar ability which I assume everyone seems to think is sound in nature (pun). So we can agree to submit that ability as is while we focus on the maul ability while overcoming DR. Keep in mind, QC does not like damage boosts, I feel the next best thing would be to give the bear warrior some sort of ability to overcome DR via admantiam fist or something that flat overcomes DR. I thought the ability to queue it up like a normal hit that lasts the full round would be best because you really only need to use it once in a while. My real question is, make it scale of Bear Warrior? or just give it a flat 1 round with a CD. Then, how long should that CD be? 30s? 14s?

The other major problem, which Valefort said he would address is the shape shift back con loss instant death. He said there's already a script for spirit shamans, and he could just implement that for Bear Warrior with a once per rest feature. This would solve a LOT of headaches and problems.

Also, do note, as of currently right now, bear warriors damage is bugged and not properly adding the elemental damage as it was intended with the new QC change. This should boost the damage next patch by a little bit (maximum 1d6 element or whatever is on a weapon).
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dedude
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by dedude »

Is 35 physical + 1d4 elemental damage considered low? Seems pretty decent to me. I agree though that the class could use some flavor fluff, seeing as most feats won't work while shifted.
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Valefort
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by Valefort »

35 + 1d4 is a lot, that's why the "more damage" was always shot down.
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Akroma666
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by Akroma666 »

Please note, the 35 damage is with MAX damage build -ipa. I'm litterally minmaxed to the extreme with fighter levels, fist of the forest, power attack, and max strength modifier.

The only reason damage was ever suggested is because I'm a power builder, I felt the class should​ be more new user friendly. Also more baseline damage could divert focus to rp, I do agree it has rich rp.. just not with fotf. /Facepalm

I agree the damage is fair, for a normal build.. the fact one needs to​ power build to get there is what I had beef with. But, I digress, I really want this flavor stuff. Specially the roar for rp.
Storm - The Blade Flurry
Druegar Grizzleclaw - The Mountain Ruin Tsar
Akroma Thuul - The Creepy Enchanter
Liliana Duskblade - The B*tch of Bane
Jamie Dawnbringer - The Light in the Darkness
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aaron22
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by aaron22 »

well if we wanted to be real with it. the "strength" of a brown bear when placing against the strongest human ever having a score of 30. then the brown bear would be at 100 or more and most likely about 300. a bear is built for strength in so many ways that go beyond just its sheer size. which can reach as high as 10' tall and 1500lbs (kodiak).

i wish i had a video, but i think it was on an old show called "animal face off" where a polar bear smashes through some very thick ice then pulls a huge beluga whale out of the water to the ice to eat it. DR that. the two paw downward smash that bears can do would bypass any sort of DR that anything could possibly have. it would be like saying i can dive into an active volcano because i have fire resistance 15. a big brown bear can fold a dumpster into an airplane.

to me. more damage is the only thing that makes sense. maybe a +damage -AB swap is in order. but damage should do nothing but go UP in bear form.
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

I am under the assumption that currently Northlander Hewing does not work with bear shape... So how about this 'MAUL' thing working kind of like that while in bear shape? You know, you take a hit in AB, AC, and number of attacks, but gain more damage in return. It doesn't have to be copy and past NH, it could be adjusted to fit better for the bearwarrior.
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aaron22
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by aaron22 »

can you KD in bear form?
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Akroma666
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by Akroma666 »

aaron22 wrote:can you KD in bear form?
Yes you can. Just KD and Charge.
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Druegar Grizzleclaw - The Mountain Ruin Tsar
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aaron22
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by aaron22 »

ok so does it calculate the proper size of the bear in the KD attempt?
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Akroma666
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by Akroma666 »

aaron22 wrote:ok so does it calculate the proper size of the bear in the KD attempt?
I think so, but i will differ to Valefort on this one.

I wouldn't be opposed to a bear form of Northlander hewing, I just feel maul should have a wounding on it of some sorts..
Storm - The Blade Flurry
Druegar Grizzleclaw - The Mountain Ruin Tsar
Akroma Thuul - The Creepy Enchanter
Liliana Duskblade - The B*tch of Bane
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aaron22
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by aaron22 »

well im just thinking that we could give something similar to SA dice on prone (KD'd) mobs. the bear would be a perfect charge/KD/maul/KD/maul. that would address the DR but only situationally. and that may be a bit more digestible to QC.
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

Not about this topic, but does Weapon Finesse work with the bear 'creature' weapon?
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by Akroma666 »

Comments Only wrote:Not about this topic, but does Weapon Finesse work with the bear 'creature' weapon?
Not sure, I have not tested. But bear warrior gives you +12 str.. that's going to have to be some serious stat manipulation to overcome.
Storm - The Blade Flurry
Druegar Grizzleclaw - The Mountain Ruin Tsar
Akroma Thuul - The Creepy Enchanter
Liliana Duskblade - The B*tch of Bane
Jamie Dawnbringer - The Light in the Darkness
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Akroma666
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Re: Bear Warrior Action Bar

Unread post by Akroma666 »

[quote]Image
Maul
Specifics: The Bear Warrior mauls his victim in an all out assault, ignoring his defenses while increasing the ferocity of his attacks. As a full round action you swing with two wounding attacks dealing​ 2 times your strength modifier plus your bear warrior levels in additional slashing damage. In addition, you also lose AC and suffer an attack penalty equal to half your bear warrior levels rounded up.
Duration: Instant
Cooldown: 30 Seconds
Rational: This was the suggested bear warrior version of Northlander Hewing that was more a clicky than a mode. Basically you drop all attacks and only get two swings, one with each paw for one massive all out assult round.
Wasn't sure if it was too powerful and maybe we should drop it to a flat 1-to-1 ratio on the drawbacks? Would be kind of neat to do a big power slams move and it would combo with the knockdown because of the attack penalty and AC loss. Attacks are slashing damage so are still reduced by most mobs, but are strong enough to overcome DR in a burst. The attacks still inflict wounding because i just love the concept of being bear mauled to death. [/quote]


Another option i was considering, thoughts?
Storm - The Blade Flurry
Druegar Grizzleclaw - The Mountain Ruin Tsar
Akroma Thuul - The Creepy Enchanter
Liliana Duskblade - The B*tch of Bane
Jamie Dawnbringer - The Light in the Darkness
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