Mornling lord of Lathander

[Kiran]

Hi all.

Pondering a turner Cleric and saw mornling lord of lathander as a prc.

However I want to know does it actually progress turning like cleric does? And are there any other classes except paladin that progresses turning? Or do I have to make a level 30 cleric to get the best out of the highest turning undead etc? Love some advice.

Currently I am looking at a build which has 17 cleric, 3 monk, 10 lathander (Monk for the ac bonus for robes, skills and other goodies)

I know the 3 in monk will of course hurt me, I could go paladin instead and just wear full plate, but how much difference does that make etc? What are the numbers.

Basically, what is the best way to get the highest out of Turning and also in turn (Pun intended) what kind of undead will I be able to turn?

[dedude]

Definitely consider Hierophant. Turning progression and Mastery of Energy. I believe Warpriest also has turning progression.

[Kiran]

Are you sure hierophant has it?

[Steve]

Hierophant doesn't add to Turning!

[Kiran]

Ya 100% sure Steve?

[Steve]

There is nothing in either this Forum or the Wiki description that would say it would.

Even MoL has an actual feat that causes/gives Turning Progression!

Because if Hierophant actually does give Turning progression, that Hierophant is the most OP PrC ever put on BGTSCC. Seriously...it would make all other PrCs a frickin' joke! But hey, if that is how it is, then awesome! I'll happily use it to my own advantage!!

[mrm3ntalist]

Because if Hierophant actually does give Turning progression, that Hierophant is the most OP PrC ever put on BGTSCC. Seriously...it would make all other PrCs a frickin' joke! But hey, if that is how it is, then awesome! I'll happily use it to my own advantage!!

Hierophant does give turn progression. It also has a Hierophant feat that empowers turning checks and damage rolls

Mastery of Energy
Type of Feat: Class Ability
Prerequisites: Hierophant 1
Specifics: Available only to hierophants with cleric levels, this ability allows a hierophant to channel positive or negative energy much more effectively, increasing his ability to affect undead. Add a +4 bonus to the hierophant’s turning checks and turning damage rolls. This ability affects other creatures than undead if the hierophant can turn other creatures, such as with a domain power.
Use: Automatic

[Blackman D]

I know the 3 in monk will of course hurt me, I could go paladin instead and just wear full plate, but how much difference does that make etc? What are the numbers.

paladin has a -3 turn level penalty, so going paladin or 3 monk is the same difference

cleric is full progression and blackguard is -2

what that matters for is your max creature HD that is affected by the turn check, you get a HD dice to roll that has a total range from -4 to +4 max levels; that bonus is applied to your turn level progression

so if you have a 30 level progression you can get another +4 bonus during the turn check so your max HD affected is 34HD, the max possible is 35HD with proper feats and domains that give turn check bonuses

max HD check is 1d20 + CHA mod + any other bonuses (sun domain gets extra 1d6, improved turning gets +1 level); the 1d6 is added to the roll and +1 is added to the level bonus

if result is 0 or lower max HD equals cleric level minus 4
if result is 1-3 max HD equals cleric level minus 3
if result is 4-6 max HD equals cleric level minus 2
if result is 7-9 max HD equals cleric level minus 1
if result is 10-12 max HD equals cleric level
if result is 13-15 max HD equals cleric level plus 1
if result is 16-18 max HD equals cleric level plus 2
if result is 19-21 max HD equals cleric level plus 3
if result is 22 or higher max HD equals cleric level plus 4

once max HD is determined it goes to the next check which is your damage dice, just because your max HD is 34-35HD doesnt mean they will actually be affected if you dont have enough damage because the turn affects the lowest HD first

total HD check is 2d6 + cleric level + CHA mod + any other bonuses (sun domain gets extra 1d4, empower turning multiples by 1.5 after)

so if your damage dice totals 50HD and there is a 20HD, 23HD and a 30HD then only the 20 and 23HD undead are turned because thats 43HD and the 30HD exceeds your possible damage

however once turned they are skipped over if you do another check, so if you turn again the next round the 20 and 23HD are ignored and only the 30HD is taken into account if there are no others

50HD is pretty low damage and is what you will probably end up or less with if you do not take the proper domains feats to boost it

so for example, a normal 30 cleric with a 20 CHA doing a turn the damage dice ends up
2d6 + 30 + 5 = max damage of 47

a 30 cleric focused in turning (so has the domains and feats) with a 20 CHA doing a turn
2d6 + 30 + 5 + 1d4 = 51 x 1.5 = 76.5 max damage

thats enough to turn the 20, 23 and 30HD undead with a single turn

[K'yon Oblodra]

Very interesting had no clue it worked like that.

[dedude]

Because if Hierophant actually does give Turning progression, that Hierophant is the most OP PrC ever put on BGTSCC. Seriously...it would make all other PrCs a frickin' joke! But hey, if that is how it is, then awesome! I'll happily use it to my own advantage!!

The passive aggressiveness is strong in this one.

[Steve]

Because if Hierophant actually does give Turning progression, that Hierophant is the most OP PrC ever put on BGTSCC. Seriously...it would make all other PrCs a frickin' joke! But hey, if that is how it is, then awesome! I'll happily use it to my own advantage!!

The passive aggressiveness is strong in this one.

Whatever! Look at how little Hierophant requires to unlock, and compare that to all the POWER it grants!

What other PrC is like this?!

[chad878262]

Because if Hierophant actually does give Turning progression, that Hierophant is the most OP PrC ever put on BGTSCC. Seriously...it would make all other PrCs a frickin' joke! But hey, if that is how it is, then awesome! I'll happily use it to my own advantage!!

The passive aggressiveness is strong in this one.

Whatever! Look at how little Hierophant requires to unlock, and compare that to all the POWER it grants!

What other PrC is like this?!

Weren't you asking for MORE power for Hierophant recently by expanding the negative energy spells list?

[Steve]

I wouldn't call it more power, instead, a support to Domains, Energy Types and Schools of Magic that align with Lore, not just what one group of people decide is valid (or, better to say, expand upon the initial implementation).

Nice try at a gotcha, Chad. I've got my shields at 10, mate!!

[Calodan]

Because if Hierophant actually does give Turning progression, that Hierophant is the most OP PrC ever put on BGTSCC. Seriously...it would make all other PrCs a frickin' joke! But hey, if that is how it is, then awesome! I'll happily use it to my own advantage!!

The passive aggressiveness is strong in this one.

Whatever! Look at how little Hierophant requires to unlock, and compare that to all the POWER it grants!

What other PrC is like this?!

Favored soul.........Frenzy Beserker...Warlock......Divine Champion......So many Steve. So very many.

Maybe it is time to stop hating bro?

[Sun Wukong]

Whatever! Look at how little Hierophant requires to unlock, and compare that to all the POWER it grants!

What other PrC is like this?!

Before Hierophant there wasn't really an option for a caster cleric. Well, beyond taking levels in both Blackguard and Warpriest to stack up on their auras. Moreover, you have to spend 15 skillpoints in a relatively useless skill and be able to cast 7th level spells to qualify for this PRC. Both these factors actually limit your multiclassing options as the server's 3 by 20 rule gets in the way pretty fast. For example you cannot get two classes without divine spellcasting progression and Hierophant in the same build. What you are limited to is just one non-spellcastting progression class. If this were not the case, you could have some really interesting builds.

Now, Steve, a better question is... What other divine PRC are divine casters going to get after Hierophant? (Dreadlord is fun, but kind of one trick pony with that focus on fear.)