Wheel, tree, or axis

[aaron22]

I think I have seen this question posed before, but is the perception of the planes to the lore informed the wheel or tree?

I am thinking we are at a crossroads and some specifically enlightened may see the tree cosmology, but the general population regard the older wheel model.

[chad878262]

Tsidkenu is the best resource for the discussion. I think in 1e it's planes, but not entirely certain.

[Deathgrowl]

I've seen the different cosmologies as IC interpretations rather than objective fact. Different IC models to explain things IC. Think about it as quantum physics and relativity. They give different pictures, but accurately explain (predict) physical phenomena even if they can't be fully reconciled.

But I think for most intents and purposes, it is the tree described in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, pages 256-258.

[Asmodea]

Easiest answer is: Both Wheel and Tree. Axis sneaks in occasionally but mostly just Feywild. There is no real running server preference towards either Tree or Wheel and both have been in many events and RP throughout the servers history.

[Planehopper]

To the time-machine, McFly!

http://theswordcoast.proboards.com/thre ... -cosmology

Looks like we've been unsure of this one since 2009.

Asmodea answered then, too.

I'm in there, too. For the record, I still don't quite follow. My interpretation is always just alternate planes, different dimensions of existence bridged at times by gates/magic/portals/rifts.

Maecius came through with pretty pictures.

I think it would be safe to say that in character no one could claim they were "right" or "wrong", it would be a matter of interpretation. I'd go with Deathgrowl and say its a matter of interpretation more than anything as far as what any mortal would know to be the truth in character.

[aaron22]

of course the planes would be an interpretation as the structure is for a more omnipotent eye. and knowledge would be akin to ideas and evolved perception. similar to how we perceive the structure of the universe and the galaxies within. as a (earth)human we do not see the whole universe, but trust the system that details what we think is out there.

research has the world tree model starting to gain traction around 1372, which is quite a ways from (server) present day. but these kinds of perceptions do not come to all overnight and I can see that perhaps many support the wheel model but an enlightened few have glimpsed the future and foresee the tree model (under assumed persecution and ridicule). perhaps those with extensive understanding of lore(planes/religion) and focuses on divination possibly.

unless the PC is from the future or can see far into it, I cannot see a viable reason why someone would follow the axis model. actual events need to take place to create this model. 1487 is a long way from (server) present.

understanding that the server can create situations where the unlikely can occur, it is good to know that either structure (tree/wheel) can be used and has previously.

thank you for the quick responses.

edit: perhaps someone who has solid knowledge of Lore:planes (30+)would feel pretty secure in the wheel model while one with a focus on divination and less (15-29) lore:planes might see the tree model as more accurate.

[Asmodea]

The Tree can fit entirely inside The Wheel; The Wheel can not fit entirely inside The Tree. So if there is a 'higher level' understanding it would be The Wheel. Though whether this 'higher understanding' is the truth or not would be up for debate! Lots of signs point to yes, example: References to Mages of Oerth in our Spells. But the answer truly boils down to: Depends.

And yeah the Axis should be nowhere near Cosmology <_< But people know the Feywild and reference it, often it can be explained off as another name for the wandering Fey Courts. It's way more than that but really shouldn't exist in our timeline, people don't know that though so they reference it.

[Steve]

viewtopic.php?f=72&t=54528

[chad878262]

Barney came through with pretty pictures.

Zanniej forgot to turn off the filter... or just enjoys messing with our loveable admin as much as me.

[Tsidkenu]

Pretty much what I said in the link Steve posted.

Majority scholarly consensus at the server timeline should be Wheel Cosmology which is the only model I will RP. I wish the DMs would make up their minds about it, really. Tree Cosmology becomes more mainstream post-Time of Troubles which is reasonable to see happening (although don't ask for details how the Godswar cataclysm precipitated the change in view besides Ed Greenwood Fiat); scholastic advance sometimes needs but one massive impetus to overhaul an older system, eg. Ptolemaic to Copernican astronomy, something that the Godswar Crisis will provide in our setting in ~5 years' time