Would u still play on BGTSCC if yr Toon had only "X" Lives?

[aaron22]

i dont think we need to have rolling a 1 on a fort save means you get a strike unless you are careless. what are the chances that 4 people are all gonna roll 1 and not one have steadfast? keep the scrolls and rezzes and such. but if you think you wanna take on chaos solo then you are earning your strikes. that is careless behavior. you wanna speak to myrkul? he has something to say about flirting in his domain. get your group. do it safe without penalties. is that so hard? is that ridiculous? to play dnd in a group.

[chad878262]

but if you think you wanna take on chaos solo then you are earning your strikes. that is careless behavior.

Depends on your build... So basically your saying we should advocate power building for anyone who either doesn't wish to (or due to timezone/language barriers is somewhat limited in) grouping up. Not trying to pick your comment Aaron, but it's a bit of a poor example as many builds can solo Chaos with zero risk and several others can have zero risk with good play and consumables (though the cost will likely not be recouped, it was stated that rewards would be better, right?)

Having trouble following the thread at this point... some are advocating for more permastrikes only in DM events, others DM events and PvP, still others only in PvE. So many different thoughts about when Death should be permanent and when it shouldn't. It makes me think we are better off with the current system, though I wouldn't be against more DM's coming up with events that carry perma-strike potential outside of the whole 'royally stupid actions' deal. I imagine it's one of those things where, as a DM it would suck to do all the work preparing to run an event and then you mention permastrike and all of a sudden you have no players.

[aaron22]

love the analogy and i like to use them too. but i think it is more like this.....

walk in and off the menu order 8oz of ground bovine muscle and lipid cells on a slit processed bleached wheat roll with slices of processed dairy and preservative emulsified salts. add on some seasoned and sweatened pureed tomato based condiment.

instead of just asking for a half pound fat burger.

they would just give you what you asked for but look at you real weird.

[aaron22]

chaos is just an example of a mob that if not either built for or planned for can make short work of you. some others would be a mob(5-6) of giants at a time. some builds can terrorize 5-6 giants and try to make that happen on purpose cause it a faster way to do the same thing. with little danger. some toons can grind wyverns at 18 others will prolly die or spend a fortune not dying. some toons can grind FoD at 16. others will get MASHED.

im not arguing if soloing is necessary or not. i play orcs. i solo almost all the time. even when the server is FULL. whatever. its about doing things crazy when you are solo. is an important part of the build knowing it's strengths and weakness? prolly the most important part. my SF could lay on the floor and rp a campfire in chaos' room. for my archer.. the door to the room might as well be to myrkul. so i could feel safe fighting chaos with the SF, but if i had strikes. no way i would go alone. no way at all. not to try stuff out like scrolls and wands(metagaming death).

[chad878262]

But isn't the fact that you know Chaos is up those steps meta-gaming what your character shouldn't know? To Touri's point earlier, why would any character step outside the front door? If you would be willing to enter the haunted mansion fighting helmed horrors, Nishruu and Vampires, why would you stop before you went up those steps? Your character shouldn't know Chaos and his buddies are going to 'spawn' up there, should he? If you are roleplaying your character and he would enter the haunted house alone, wouldn't he go up to the top floor?

[aaron22]

that is a good point chad and something i use in my personal RP. a place like the haunted mansion i went as a group with the first time. i saw chaos and lived to tell about it because i was with a group. that is the same for every thing on the server. in the other discussion about avernus merchant. my orcs have no idea that that gear even exists or stuff in BG for that matter or DA too. with chaos i had to create this development. it can all be created IN GAME and IN CHARACTER. or you can take short cuts and metagame all your OOC knowledge.

[Hoihe]

Here's a different trail that I have no issues with:

Instead of making RP impossible by permanently killing off a character and pissing off a great number of people..

What about losing items?

Basically,

If you die and get raised, you lose nothing.

If you die and talk to myrkul, Myrkul will take 1-3 unflagged item(s) from your inventory at random.

You get the opportunity to flag 1 item as "Plot-important" which you will never lose, but are also forbidden from trading away. This is to protect memento style items and very special DM awards. Everything else is fair game, except for the OOC items in your inventory (DMFI tool, scry tool, rules).

Your items in storage are also safe.

This can be gamed by carrying a lot of useless items in your inventory to reduce the chances of RNG picking your valuable ones, but it's still a gamble. To fix this, one can always increase how many items it picks or maybe make it require "Minimum worth of 5000 gold to be picked" (to spare new players).





This is already sort of what I did once. Despite my OOC avoidance of the idea of permadeath, ICly, despite knowing Atria has quite a good backup in terms of being resurrected, she doesn't intent to die and thus acts accordingly. To the point of giving up her (then as Hoihe) EB+3 1d6 cold longsword to avoid a confrontation with a drow while protecting an elf. As someone who hates the very idea of permadeath, I'd love this kind of system on the other hand.

The question would be, if you die in PvP - do you lose an item, and if yes, does the victor get it?

For that, I'd say, make it an opt-in/out system per PvP, i.e: you lose, a screen pops up asking "Do you wish to forfeit (a) item(s)?" and then it does the usual rolling, with an additional 20% chance for the winner to claim an item.

[Xanfyrst]

How about keeping it as it is and have the DM team be more serious about enforcing it. Too many characters gets "off the hook" during events and other DM-observed situations where one character faces something that would qualify as a strike against the characters permadeath (3 strikes necessary). Certain characters still around should've been perma-killed years ago if the rule was properly enforced.

[aaron22]

How about keeping it as it is and have the DM team be more serious about enforcing it. Too many characters gets "off the hook" during events and other DM-observed situations where one character faces something that would qualify as a strike against the characters permadeath (3 strikes necessary). Certain characters still around should've been perma-killed years ago if the rule was properly enforced.

Agreed. *Coughs.*

couldnt see why they wouldnt????

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[Hoihe]

Asmodea on IRC proposed another idea which I like.


No strikes against PCs, but strikes for metaplots/campaigns.

Meaning, in a given metaplot, if you end up dying X amount of times in manners fitting the criteria for given metaplot, you are obligated to bow out from it and avoid influencing it anymore.

I think that would satisfy the CvC folks in getting their tactical superiority have an effect.

[aaron22]

who do that effect? like 10-15 players?

[Steve]

How about keeping it as it is and have the DM team be more serious about enforcing it. Too many characters gets "off the hook" during events and other DM-observed situations where one character faces something that would qualify as a strike against the characters permadeath (3 strikes necessary). Certain characters still around should've been perma-killed years ago if the rule was properly enforced.

Kinda what I've been saying since the OP.

Getting "involved" in Campaigns and Server Wide/World affecting Events, could and should become more weighty, thus with more value, in the consequence dept.. As well, the Rewards for the Risk, increase!!

[Face]

Some people need to learn to let go

[Mac]

How about keeping it as it is and have the DM team be more serious about enforcing it. Too many characters gets "off the hook" during events and other DM-observed situations where one character faces something that would qualify as a strike against the characters permadeath (3 strikes necessary). Certain characters still around should've been perma-killed years ago if the rule was properly enforced.

Speaking from personal experience balancing a combat encounter is difficult. The difference between what is a challenging experience, an all out party kill or a cake walk is not that far apart. Add to that a tool set that is anything but intuitive and has a number of monsters cr's miss labeled, Perma-death events put a lot of stress on the DM ruining them. In a perfect world yes every challenge would be properly balanced. In practice though it's a lot more chaotic than that. It's very easy for a DM to simply "F" up an encounter and that's not a very fun way to lose a favored character.

Unless... you are speaking of strictly RP incidents. In which case the policy as I remember it was that perma-death generally rests in the hands of the player not the staff.

[Planehopper]

Speaking from personal experience balancing a combat encounter is difficult. The difference between what is a challenging experience, an all out party kill or a cake walk is not that far apart.

Amen. Between fuzzy die rolls, the DM creator (unless its been cleaned up), and the wide range of levels that show up to events, trying to not kill a PC in an event is no easy task.