The Bladesinger PRC

[chad878262]

Actually Shadow Dancer / Bladesinger requires serious min/maxing and you won't get to 26 INT (will likely get to 24, maybe only 22).

Here is an example of a Drow Deathsinger with Shadow Dancer, which is still min/maxed heavily and would likely be more palatable for "roleplay) if INT ended at 24 instead of 26, opening up 6 more points to allocate to other stats. Would only cost 1 AC, 1 damage, some skill points and a couple of bonus spells which would likely be worth it from an RP perspective.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?262635

However, if we are talking Sun Elf Bladesinger you no longer have +2 DEX so to get to 19 you are likely going to have to sacrifice, starting at 16 DEX, 18 INT, then putting first 3 stat increases in to DEX, leaving 4 increases for INT bringing it to 22. You could then drop the 2 epic spells to get to 24, but I don't see how you would reach 26. You need Epic Prowess and Combat Insight for damage and Expose Weakness would be silly to miss out on.

[Bad Omens]

Chad, I don't understand. If you take Rapier Focus and Weapon Finesse combined with Combat Insight, you can just Max Dex to 22, get Int to 24 and probably still be able to take Expose, right?

Hell, if anything might have mechanical synergy, imagine a Wizard/EK/BS/Assassin. Yes, low AB but pop haste, tenser's, expose out of HiPs....... DC for death attack could be what, around 28?

I would imagine a Drow Death Singer would be pretty scary!

[chad878262]

Chad, I don't understand. If you take Rapier Focus and Weapon Finesse combined with Combat Insight, you can just Max Dex to 22, get Int to 24 and probably still be able to take Expose, right?

You could, but not sure why you would want to. 19 DEX +3 item or Cat's Grace is 22 which is all you need for Mithral Chain Shirt. AB is 43 with 19 DEX which is plenty, especially out of HiPS. Why put 3 more points in to DEX?

Hell, if anything might have mechanical synergy, imagine a Wizard/EK/BS/Assassin. Yes, low AB but pop haste, tenser's, expose out of HiPs....... DC for death attack could be what, around 28?

I looked in to this and it is interesting. W5/BS10/A8/EK7 would have CL21 and BAB25. A BladeSinger loses AC if attacking with two weapons and doesn't have the feats to be able to get TWF anyway. Thus you are only getting 2 death attacks out of stealth vs. 4 most Assassins get. 2 death attacks doing 4d6 damage is not really worth it IMO, though the DC being higher makes it interesting, not enough to be worth the further loss of CL. Could be an interesting concept to try though. I prefer my Assassins to either have PTWF or Archery to make the most use of death attack and require more saves vs. higher DC. If Death Attack worked like PnP where only the first sneak attack was a death attack than absolutely it would be more worthwhile on a build like this with INT focus.

[Sun Wukong]

How about a Wizard 6/Bladesinger 10/Assassin 8/Arcane Trickster 6? You know, you could throw some offensive spells with extra sneak attack damage on top.

[chad878262]

How about a Wizard 6/Bladesinger 10/Assassin 8/Arcane Trickster 6? You know, you could throw some offensive spells with extra sneak attack damage on top.

BAB is only 22 so you would have to give up some INT to increase DEX for AB. Doesn't seem like a good trade to gain one CL and a couple d6 sneak dice over EK.

[Sun Wukong]

I am not so sure about the loss of AB though being a large downside. The difference here is just three points and if you use Tenser Transformation you actually end up at the exact same number.

22 (BAB) + 8 (Tenser Transformation) + 5 (GMW) + 4 (Greater Heroism) +1 (Haste) = 40
25 (BAB) + 5 (Tenser Transformation) + 5 (GMW) + 4 (Greater Heroism) +1 (Haste) = 40

As for the extra caster level, it tends to give you additional +1d6 damage with your offensive spells.

It would also get 7d6 sneak attack instead of just 4d6 sneak attack, and instead of being limited to just popping out of stealth or flanking, I could get few sneat attacks with offensive spells.

I think the biggest downside of this build would be the late HiPS, so in a way it would be best done through RCR. Yet to me this does sound like the better deal of the two, but I guess my preference for 'Fighter/Mage/Thieves' is also playing a role here.

[Sun Wukong]

How about a Wizard 6/Bladesinger 10/Assassin 8/Arcane Trickster 6? You know, you could throw some offensive spells with extra sneak attack damage on top.

BAB is only 22 so you would have to give up some INT to increase DEX for AB. Doesn't seem like a good trade to gain one CL and a couple d6 sneak dice over EK.

Actually no, it just popped up into my head that Bladesinger requires BAB of 5, and you take Assassin at level 15 at its earliest for Arcane Trickster sneak attack dice, so this build I suggested is actually an impossibility due to the 3 by 20 server rule.

On some other server though, Wizard 10/Bladesinger 10/Assassin 8/Arcane Trickster 2 would would work though.

I suppose you could drop Bladesinger levels by two, and bump up Arcane Trickster to four, but I am not sure if that is worth it as you lose quite a bit of potential AC. :/

[Valefort]

So, no digusting all powerful builds came from this ?

Might need a boost then

[Sun Wukong]

So, no digusting all powerful builds came from this ?

Might need a boost then

I think you've misread this topic, it is about figuring out which disgustingly all powerful Bladesinger build stands at the top!

Might need a nerf then.

But on a more serious tone, the flaws that the Bladesinger comes with are relatively minor, and it has the perk of not looking like a yet another tin can at the campfire, or what not. Not to mention that you actually use it to build many high intelligence power builds and have access to more skill points than you can spend.

Technically the only real downside is that you have to play an efl!

[chad878262]

I NEVER have more skill points than I can spend, I ALWAYS want more!!!

Also, regarding downside, there's the fact that you have relatively limited feats with which to customize your character, but that is about RP downside as opposed to mechanical I suppose, since it doesn't really need feats for power and if it had a bunch of available feats that would allow it to get more powerful.

Honestly Song of Celerity is my favorite part of the class and what allows Gish builds that really only push for CL20 instead of CL30. It has weaknesses in this way, but brings other power alongside it. I haven't experienced any gamebreakingly powerful builds and DragonSlayer/EK builds are different, but equal with regard to power levels and even play styles.