Upperdark

[flipside43]

I enjoy the presupposition that an RP-out isn't hostility.

The intention of the Upperdark was to provide a place for the UD and surface to mix that wasn't on the surface or UD. It was never intended to be fully associated with the UD. It's a buffer zone between the KOS areas to facilitate further RP. From everything I've experienced and heard about, it seems like it's working.

The decision to make it full RP-out rules was made by the DM team at the time. They felt it was the best direction to take based on what has been developed on the server and with what we already had.

[Rinzler]

I enjoy the presupposition that an RP-out isn't hostility.

The intention of the Upperdark was to provide a place for the UD and surface to mix that wasn't on the surface or UD. It was never intended to be fully associated with the UD. It's a buffer zone between the KOS areas to facilitate further RP. From everything I've experienced and heard about, it seems like it's working.

The decision to make it full RP-out rules was made by the DM team at the time. They felt it was the best direction to take based on what has been developed on the server and with what we already had.

1. Yes, Upperdark: The Underdark update for the surface.

2. It isn't working. There's no interaction, people only go there to loot. The Upperdark is vastly superior to the Underdark as well. In fact, there's more places for a CR 30 Drow to go in the Upperdark than there is the Underdark. How is that fair to Underdark PCs?

3. RP Out rules are fine. They should not apply when you're a surface PC beneath the surface and encounter an Underdark Race.

4. Drow must have an RP reason to go anywhere on the surface, but anyone from the surface can just waltz into the Upperdark with no consequence.

5. All I see are arguments of people who regularly loot the Upperdark and can't be hassled with a Drow on their tail.

The hypocrisy is staggering.

[chad878262]

You're getting a bit rude Rinzler and I'm unsure why. People are allowed to disagree and IIRC NegInfinity had a brief RP with Calodan and I when we were down there with our Thayan Knights, which ended with him basically chasing us out of Kro's Labyrinth. It's a broad generalization to say that all surface players go to that location to loot and only to loot as there are plenty that do go there and respond to RP. I have yet to run in to a surface when playing my drow there, but I have run in to drow and other underdark races while playing my Tiefling (surface) and humans. Some has resulted in grouping up for a bit, others scenarios have been hostile, all have been strictly IC and I don't think there were any hard feelings on either side in any of the situations.

I get that you have had multiple bad situations and I understand where you are coming from. Regardless of where you are on the server, having a bad taste in your mouth after a poor interaction is no fun. Having it happen multiple times is like being beaten down, so you want to do something to make it stop. However, nothing you've suggested will fix the issue. Because there have been similar situations in the past and the fact is they have had poor results which I doubt most long time players and DMs would enjoy seeing a repeat of.

[flipside43]

1. Again, the Upperdark = / = the Underdark.

2. It's your opinion it isn't working. I've had friends who have looted very effectively in the UD.

3. See point 1.

4. See point 1.

5. I've seen several people chime in who are superb RPers who are certainly not acting in the way you are describing. Perhaps you should take a moment and look at all the people who have chimed in on this thread who are supporting your idea compared to those that are not. How much resonance is your idea having with the community?

1. Yes, Upperdark: The Underdark update for the surface.

2. It isn't working. There's no interaction, people only go there to loot. The Upperdark is vastly superior to the Underdark as well. In fact, there's more places for a CR 30 Drow to go in the Upperdark than there is the Underdark. How is that fair to Underdark PCs?

3. RP Out rules are fine. They should not apply when you're a surface PC beneath the surface and encounter an Underdark Race.

4. Drow must have an RP reason to go anywhere on the surface, but anyone from the surface can just waltz into the Upperdark with no consequence.

5. All I see are arguments of people who regularly loot the Upperdark and can't be hassled with a Drow on their tail.

The hypocrisy is staggering.

[Rinzler]

I apologize for getting a bit heated. All I want is something resembling fair balance for Underdark RP. I understand your "Point 1" - but my point is that there's nothing of interest in what's currently considered "Underdark." There is nothing unique and exclusive to the Underdark. Everything unique and exclusive about the Underdark is located in the Upperdark. I just think its unfair.

So maybe my entire purpose of this thread is to make Upperdark = Underdark.

[NegInfinity]

People are allowed to disagree and IIRC NegInfinity had a brief RP with Calodan and I when we were down there with our Thayan Knights, which ended with him basically chasing us out of Kro's Labyrinth.

Nah, I'd love to take the credit, but that definitely wasn't me, sorry ^_^. Sounds like a fun situation. Wish I was there.

However, I visit the areas often, and would interact with things that run into me. To the extent of the ability of a character I play at the time, of course.

To Rinzler:

and can't be hassled with a Drow

I'd suggest to try interacting with more characters. You'll eventually find someone who is more responsive.

So maybe my entire purpose of this thread is to make Upperdark = Underdark.

I would rather not have this kind of rule, because it'll effectively kill surfacer traffic to the area and greatly limit number of RP opportunities between both realms.

If this were in effect, you'd mostly likely encounters will be Full LVL 30 parties ready to steamroll you, rather than single curious creatures.

[Storm Munin]

As for the addition of the upperdark area it might be that it came with less then optimal lore support to explain what we experience.
That could be remedied by player actions supported by DMs aimed at the upperdark location.

Even if at least 3 UD guilds have made an impact on the area since its creation that is continuum. What happened before us?

Maybe I was away for a while too long, but I fail to grasp just what kind of settlement Undrek Naudal are for example. Undrek Naudal are, umm, a settlement of some or many races?
Rockrun are in my view at the opposite side of the spectra and has sufficient background to do what it were designed to do. Gnomes rebelled and stole it from duergar, ok, check.

On the other hand Undrek Naudal has the merit of offering DMs and players freedom to do what they please with it exactly due to the lack of supporting lore. Currently however to me it seem like a black hole serverwise.
True I have settled one of my clerics there who opened up a healing station some six months ago, the lack of customers or even visitors are somewhat problematic in regards to roleplay however.


So what do we do to support roleplay in the Upperdark?
I could be wrong but I think spending more time on the past is unhealthy, lets build the future together people.

Others and I are already into roleplay of trade network(s) and divine services in the Upperdark.
What other infrastructure et al can find playerbase support for the middle of everything?

In two years from now what will the settlement of Undrek Naudal mean for the server?
Will the tunnels down from Darkhold and Kraak stay open?
What of the caravans from Sshamath?
Will the bloodlusted denizens of Oghrann stay contained?
Will the mushrooms run out due to greed or other (un)natural reasons?


/M

[Rinzler]

Mist Lake serves as a loot & grind camp. Merchant and Auction house all right next to each other for when you're doing Kro's from level 11-20. There's not much RP that occurs there. Unless us in the discord cesspool organize something, the only way to find RP in the Underdark is to sit in Gloura's and wait.

And typically most people that come through Gloura's are just an alternate and they're there to get some quests done and grind. Which doesn't bother me, just stating the facts.

[Steve]

What would be helpful for the Upperdark is if DMs AND Players starting creating storylines/campaigns/role-play that inspires the environment that we all know it should be, based on Forgotten Realms Lore.

All it is now seems to be a glorified XP grind spot and Loot Farming fun park, as illustrated by the great number of both comments made on the Forum supporting it and the number of Players with alts doing daily loot runs there.

Make if exist as you want it to via RP, if that is what it lacks. Else the situation will never change.

You should also consider how the lack of DM commentary on the subject also leaves the discussion in a nowhere zone of nothingness. That means YOU have to make the change happen!!

[PaulImposteur]

What would be helpful for the Upperdark is if DMs AND Players starting creating storylines/campaigns/role-play that inspires the environment that we all know it should be, based on Forgotten Realms Lore.

All it is now seems to be a glorified XP grind spot and Loot Farming fun park, as illustrated by the great number of both comments made on the Forum supporting it and the number of Players with alts doing daily loot runs there.

Make if exist as you want it to via RP, if that is what it lacks. Else the situation will never change.

You should also consider how the lack of DM commentary on the subject also leaves the discussion in a nowhere zone of nothingness. That means YOU have to make the change happen!!

Wanting and working towards 'change' through RP doesn't really work for somewhere like the UD. The real appeal to the UD is that it has a very interesting environment. I would argue that almost all of the dedicated UD players, RP very frequently to have plots of sabotage and destruction.

However most of us are aware that the primary reason the UD stays empty of actual UD characters is very much a mechanical reason. Most of the races are ECL, and the monsters down there seem honestly, far more difficult than their surfacer common-parts.

One of the few non-ECL races is the Half-Drow after all. Which I play, and honestly, is a pretty terrible race if you compare it to many of the other non-ECLs. We can try to ignore it, but I know that this server is VERY heavily driven by the dynamics of optimizing characters.

If Drow weren't ECL, I bet the UD would be packed to the brim. So it's a bit unfair to say that somehow the lack of players down in the UD is at the fault of the players that stay there. Even DM's being dedicated to events in the UD will only help marginally.

But that whole argument is another cow. One not really pertaining to this.

Going back to the original post, I totally disagree with the Upper-dark being 'Neutral', when it comes to KOS rules.

The Upper-Dark is where Menzoberranzan had been placed. How is this neutral territory?
Inhabitants of the Upper-Dark (That's a lot of Drow)

So what it comes down to, is if we're deeming it neutral for game-play purposes, and to encourage RP by not allowing KOS. Then why are we not extending that philosophy to all areas? Because I absolutely agree that removing KOS from the area adds more RP to it. Which is exactly why we should just get rid of KOS.

[Face]

Let UD players go to the surface to rp/explore/loot and grind some.
100% sure we wil find more rp that way.(Like it was the case in the upperdark when that just came out)

[PaulImposteur]

Let UD players go to the surface to rp/explore/loot and grind some.
100% sure we wil find more rp that way.(Like it was the case in the upperdark when that just came out)

That's all. I'm too wordy, but that's the point I was getting at. Thank you.

[Face]

Let UD players go to the surface to rp/explore/loot and grind some.
100% sure we wil find more rp that way.(Like it was the case in the upperdark when that just came out)

That's all. I'm too wordy, but that's the point I was getting at. Thank you.

[Rinzler]

That'd be a fine compromise for me. All I was originally asking for was a grand total of 5 areas be shifted to "Underdark" but if they remain upperdark and I get to freely explore the surface then cool with me.

[NegInfinity]

Let UD players go to the surface to rp/explore/loot and grind some.
100% sure we wil find more rp that way.(Like it was the case in the upperdark when that just came out)

I think the only way it would work if the drow remain KoS (possibly with a permastrike) but are allowed to explore. And if light blindness is implemented. (I think it is implemented, right?)
Likewise the same thing would apply to surfacers in UD.

Otherwise it will lead to more hugs and lore-breaking behavior.

Honestly, it reminds me of another thread where people were complaining about bears in the cities. Might end up with drow instead of bears this way.