Why is the UD so easy to get to now?

[Larzs]

By no means am I saying go back to limited/denied access.

I have been gone...a long long while and back then the UD was a real real pain or flat out impossible to get to from the surface. I am just wondering why it is so easy to get to know? Has the server expanded so much it only makes sense lore wise there are more access points? Was there some big server event that cool hostilities? Is there no longer the Kill On Sight rules for PvP of Surfacers in the UD and vice versa?

What has happened!

[PaulImposteur]

Desire to increase RP is mostly the reason from my understanding.

I am a fan of it.

[Pimple]

The PvP Rules can be found on the forums, and surfacers are indeed kill-on-sight in the "Underdark" (Middledark) as denizens of the Underdark are kill-on-sight above, once ICly identified. One thing to note is that neither Surface nor Underdark characters are kill-on-sight in the Upperdark, but require an RP out first.

I'm not sure what this has to do with access points at all though? Caverns that are connected up and down aren't such a rare thing that there should only be one in each region, and the number of access points has nothing to do with the IC state of hostilities.

If anything I find it less than ideal that it's a walk in the park to get through the Upperdark to the Middledark, but I don't see a good way to change that, considering what work has been put into the place.

To be honest though I do find this far preferable from being "a real real pain or flat out impossible" to get to or from. Like Paul said it has brought RP. Good and bad RP, granted, but I'm told it's bad manners to judge these things!

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

Welcome back https://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=443&t=61829

[PaulImposteur]

Generally, I've had good experiences playing my Half-Drow, and playing my surface toon when in the connecting areas. Bad experiences usually always involve PvP or people using it solely as an OOC thing. However, these issues persist in every area of the server, not just UD.

I'd say it has created a much more positive affect on the server, than any negative impact it could have imparted.

[Larzs]

I'm not sure what this has to do with access points at all though? Caverns that are connected up and down aren't such a rare thing that there should only be one in each region, and the number of access points has nothing to do with the IC state of hostilities.

You gotta realize I am an old old old old player, like when I played...there was just Underdark, no Upper or Middledark, just Underdark. There was one way to and from it. Bottom of Durlag's. The only reason I was able to get down there was I could Sneak and Invis. haha. DMs could cut it off if needed and then PCs could only get there by DM events and help.

But it is nice to have that much more open just to explore(which is what I am namely doing now lol) and even better and safer I can't be outright murdered lol, gives me a bit of breather.

Welcome back https://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=443&t=61829

I did read a bit of that, I haven't run into anyone yet...and I am a bit lost in the Upperdark lol. Guess I won't be getting to Ssmatah(or whatever) any time soon.

[Pimple]

You gotta realize I am an old old old old player, like when I played...there was just Underdark, no Upper or Middledark, just Underdark. There was one way to and from it. Bottom of Durlag's. The only reason I was able to get down there was I could Sneak and Invis. haha. DMs could cut it off if needed and then PCs could only get there by DM events and help.

But it is nice to have that much more open just to explore(which is what I am namely doing now lol) and even better and safer I can't be outright murdered lol, gives me a bit of breather.

Even after the Upperdark has been added the old maps are still named "Underdark" in the maps and rules; I just refuse to join the module in being inaccurate :p

Also, you won't get through the Netherese Maze on invis or magic concealment. Those shadowy transitions clear the effects. Don't know about sneak :)

But man the transition effects in that dungeon are sweet...

[Planehopper]

Larzs, there are quite a few of us old veterans around. Things have changed significantly in many respects. You'd do well to catch up on the custom changes, classes, and similar threads, and to peruse the Wikipedia (the new one is great). Most importantly, read the rules as various aspects have changed since you were here regularly.

There are a lot of new feats and systems, don't miss out.

[Larzs]

Larzs, there are quite a few of us old veterans around. Things have changed significantly in many respects. You'd do well to catch up on the custom changes, classes, and similar threads, and to peruse the Wikipedia (the new one is great). Most importantly, read the rules as various aspects have changed since you were here regularly.

There are a lot of new feats and systems, don't miss out.

I have looked at the PrC quite a bit and they seem much cool, but I am too stubborn and burned out to make a new PC so I'll miss out on much of those. Same with a few new skills haha(somehow I bet I would get more use out of Disguise instead of Alchemy...) and feats. But I still like the idea behind my character as much as many of the things that I wished got addressed over my years of absence seems to have been low on the priority list >.<

Also, you won't get through the Netherese Maze on invis or magic concealment. Those shadowy transitions clear the effects. Don't know about sneak

Not surprised and okay with that, I sure know that I can't sneak by the Pit Fiend at the bottom of the Naskel Mines...which I think he might guard a portal to the Underdark. There were plenty of areas I wanted to poke around and explore when the server was expanding and adding new higher level areas that just had scripted -100 to Hide and MS and everything had See Invis lol. I know when I had to run

[mrm3ntalist]

Its very easy now. Whether it is good or bad, it depends who you ask. One thing is for certain. It does not help the UD. The majority of drow plan to get to the surface at some point or another. The drow is quickly becoming the new orc race.

[mrm3ntalist]

Its very easy now. Whether it is good or bad, it depends who you ask. One thing is for certain. It does not help the UD. The majority of drow plan to get to the surface at some point or another. The drow is quickly becoming the new orc race.

IDK, if drow go to the surface or the upperdark it's to find players to interact with, and there's a bunch of active UDers now that at other points in time the server never had. Not necessarily a bad thing imo. From what I heard a few left after SP opened because it had a similar setting and offered a refreshed experience but I've seen some come back.

There were always "a bunch of UDers". Without having to cross to the surface ( the same goes for the other way around, surface to UD). Now it becomes just another area of the server. And the drow just another monster race on the surface - sometimes not even that.

As long as people are having fun I mean

Exactly that. But that goes both ways. If it is not fun for me, use salt and vinegar when i ask you to get out of my face.

[Steve]

It is simply an unfortunate limitation to NWN2 to truly represent the Underdark. Would it be possible to make even a fair representation, literally, the majority of living beings would AVOID IT AT ALL COSTS!!!

Things like poison air, mind-crippling silence, utter and impenetrable darkness, tunnels barely the width of a body, tunnels that are made in three dimensions requiring all sorts of skill challenge against epic difficulty.

There is a real reason why such particular creatures are found only in the UD! They have evolved through ages of harshness to adapt but BARELY thrive. Making the Middledark and even the Upperdark a cakewalk undermined exactly what the UD is.

And though I understand the mechanical issues, and though I understand the OOC desire to generate RP between these Worlds, there does exist an inconsistency with Lore, and I find that a pity that Forgotten Realms lord is...undermined! Ha!

On the other hand, it also seems a rather simple solution to create IC reasons/storylines that support why the custom BGTSCC Server has a unique UD/Surface setup. Given enough context to work with, it would appear possible to justify the situation.

But that is yet to be established, imho. Doesn't mean that there isn't still the time and possibility!!!

[Larzs]

There is a real reason why such particular creatures are found only in the UD! They have evolved through ages of harshness to adapt but BARELY thrive. Making the Middledark and even the Upperdark a cakewalk undermined exactly what the UD is.

Like some of the things in the depths of the ocean...born of nightmares I swear...

Things like poison air, mind-crippling silence, utter and impenetrable darkness, tunnels barely the width of a body, tunnels that are made in three dimensions requiring all sorts of skill challenge against epic difficulty.

I got +5 Vs Poison, I am set. I am a sneaker! Silence is my forte!! I got Darkvision from my questionable heritage, bring it on! Um...I got some points in Tumble, I think I could do that...

I was more just making sure I didn't miss out on the possibility of some server event that happened that would of changed how the UD and the Surface interact.

[Tekill]

It was too hard before.
But I think the Darkhold caravan route is a too easy.
Maybe there should still be a trade route. Its a logical idea- could happen.
But there is just no way in heck, it should be that easy to get down there. Every Hooked Horror, Carrion Crawler, Orog, Duergar, and Illithid worth its salt should be fighting over who gets to rob or eat the travellers on that route.
My mid teens level toon went on an expedition down there with a party and it was SUPER EASY getting to Kro's Labrinth. We cleaned up on loot there. It was like more like a day hiking trip then a perilous suicide mission to scout out what evil lurks in the dark. I even faked getting lost in the Rockrun map which was kind of fun, as it kind of gave a sense of what it might really be like. The first time I discovered that map I was so utterly lost. When I finally found that Deep Gnome - I was never so happy to see a gnome in my life - and he took me to his city- he saved my life!
I mean, I coulda starved tah death all alone in them tunnels!!!

If you just put tougher mobs down there it will just become a grind spot.
But, Steve made some good suggestions. The way Rockrun's map is blacked out is a good start- and its mysterious fog is great. Maybe just expand on that concept a bit. It would not be hard to make it harder to travel down there without just adding tougher mobs.
You could take a wrong turn and have to make some sort of death roll as the earth simply just swallows you up. Lots of idea for some cheap thrills in the Underdark- and there is no reason for the NWN2 mechanics not to support them.
I say, just make it dangerous enough that you sort to have to know what you are doing before going down there...
Even just a small increase in the chance of death would be more satisfying than paying a dude with wagon to teleport you into the upperdark.
c'mon man!

[NegInfinity]

It was too hard before.
But I think the Darkhold caravan route is a too easy.

This one probably should be probably faction-locked to zhentarim members only.
I usually go through troll claws instead.