Traps, Poisons and other "evil" things?

[Steve]

Like your inability to find loot? I think that is a L2P issue too.....

Been here a few years myself Steve. Not a dummy can build and use the gears and stuffs for this server quite well thank you. Stand by my statement just like you do with the loot. Better L2P noob......

By the gods do I want to pick apart your asinine response...but I'll let your inability to actually make a counter argument stand on its own two, little itsy bitsy weak arse legs.

3 uses per application plus a minute in which a poison "sticks" to the weapon in order to be used, is pretty spectacular at the moment. If you cannot learn how to apply—and may I add infinitely apply since there is no end to poisons available—a 30 DC save to your attacks against the appropriate opponent, then your INT assassin ain't much usin' dat INT, ain't he?!?

With Poison feat and current poisons, you are essentially getting a tailored made Save or be really SCREWED weapon. But for some reason people either a) can't see how to use it well and bitch, or b) are impatient with its use and want it to be so much easier that we might as well call this Toddler D&D...for toddlers.

The reason Poisons are not longer or higher DC is exactly the reason why weapons are not dropping with DC 16+. Because a toon is hitting avg. 4 times a round, and the Engine is such that your bound to land a hit against a Save fail, so damn often that its actually UNFAIR to the mob, not to mention another PC.

I'll just make an example for you hard headed: I have a quarterstaff with a On Hit: Stun DC=30 / 33% / 1 round property. Do you have any idea how often that thing cripples an opponent?!? Put it in the hands of a 8 APR monk and you'll watch mobs actually cry before you...and yes, that animation does exist!!!

EDIT: on the other hand, my arguing that everything is puppies and rainbows with Poisons will probably fuel someone to actually go and change it, just because!!! So Calodan wins anyway!!! lol.

[cosmic ray]

I remember the time where poisons would last on items even through a reset
that was great as you could poison a few arrows , a potion or a dagger in advance and use them when needed.

That's the way they should work. Otherwise, they're all but useless.

[Snarfy]

My biggest gripe with poisons(despite the fact that I hoard them) is, and always has been, that they break stealth. It is for this sole reason that any practical application for the use of poisons, for me, becomes nil. To be kicked out of stealth for a round(I think?) by applying poison to a blade has to be one of the most infuriating things about playing an assassin. Meanwhile, I can bandage myself like a mummy for 10 minutes straight, or even change my entire wardrobe without losing stealth... tra-la-la-la.

Could the duration be better? Meh, sure... but it becomes a rather moot point given that, if you want to use them in a fight as a stealth user, you practically have to drop your pants and paint a target on your ass to apply them.

As for traps, I still love them, and tend to use them religiously if I'm dungeon crawling. In RP? Not really(unless it's PvP related), I've gotten in trouble too many times from DM's for even using the lowest level tangle traps in zones where no monsters spawn(oh, how I used to enjoy planting them near the chickens on the tradeway to slow down the runners, then put up signs that said "Beware, chickens crossing")... apparently that constitutes as griefing in some peoples eyes.

[Larzs]

Now think about that Rogue 16/assassin 9/ IB 5 build .. 10 base fort save as well, let's say he has heroism on as well as +5 to saves due to gear .. a whooping 17 fort save ! Attack .. if we say 2 connect that's :

7/20*7/20 = 49/400 = 12.25% of making both saves, that guy is a goner almost sytematically.

With this particular build sure that Asn 9 has +4 Save Versus Poison. I mean...ups their chance but still with 2-3 hits might have them failing one of them.

Making them last long is pretty useless except for PvP though, my idea is to have them being used in PvE.

But I want them to be used more in PvP, my hope is to make them more as something to bring non-casters to par in fighting all the shiny disco balling cookie cutters out here.

If an hour is too long because of PvP issues even having it last ~10 minutes would be enough to allow for group RP while using poisons.

I am lost how extending it would have issues with PvP. I mean all it does it make it so their target doesn't get a few free hits them as they apply the poison again if they want to use it again.

My biggest gripe with poisons(despite the fact that I hoard them) is, and always has been, that they break stealth. It is for this sole reason that any practical application for the use of poisons, for me, becomes nil.

This is why I want them to be Duration Indefinite, One Hit(or maybe 3...whatever, but I would be okay with 1). I think Poison Application breaking Stealth is hard coded and nothing can fix that...if they didn't break stealth I would be okay with the duration as is.

[Calodan]

It's fine, your opinion is just not backed by facts Calodan. PTWF assassin with on hit weapons and poisons will make targets roll so many saves they're bound to fail .. creatures also do not have super high fortitude.

I think giving poisons something like 5-10 applications per vial instead of 1 might be enough.

I do like the idea of having more chances to make them roll a save. That would be helpful considering the price of poisons that are good.

What about giving blunt weapons the same selection of poison effects as piercing and slashing as well? I.E. On Hit Blindness and other types that are not part of the blunt poison selection. Blunt gets 4 poisons. Which is really 2 types but the other two are just the higher DC versions. I think it is damage to INT and damage to CON only for blunt weapons.

Steve and Calodan, keep it civil, please? I don't want to see this thread closed just yet.

If people don't start no shit, won't be no shit. I am not the person to take a high road in an argument never have been most likely never will be since the military made me take drugs that cause brain damage........That is probably the best thing I found out this year that malaria meds we were forced to take were POISON and had EPIC SAVES! LOL. Why can't BG have some stuff like that?

[Valefort]

How do you even poison a club ? There has to be something blunt weapons are bad at ! THe fact some poisons work for bludgeoning is beyond me

[Glowfire]

How do you even poison a club ? There has to be something blunt weapons are bad at ! THe fact some poisons work for bludgeoning is beyond me

There's spikes on some clubs?

[aaron22]

still a bludgeoning weapon.

[chad878262]

That'd be what a club looks like with the property "Extra Damage: Piercing"

Also....ouch.

[Valefort]

And it'd better be drenched in poison + the target has bare skin

[Tsidkenu]

Contact poisons (ie, the ones you can put on clubs or attempt a direct Melee Touch Attack) are absorbed by the cells of the skin/respiratory system and from there into the blood stream/lymphatic system/whatever. Think of how Kim Jongeun assassinated Kim Jongnam in Malaysia not so long ago, the two duped 'pranksters' unknowingly using VX on a cloth which was placed in front of the mouth with fatal consequences.

[Larzs]

Contact poisons (ie, the ones you can put on clubs or attempt a direct Melee Touch Attack) are absorbed by the cells of the skin/respiratory system and from there into the blood stream/lymphatic system/whatever. Think of how Kim Jongeun assassinated Kim Jongnam in Malaysia not so long ago, the two duped 'pranksters' unknowingly using VX on a cloth which was placed in front of the mouth with fatal consequences.

Same deal with them Soviets and poison on gloved hands, right through the cells. But blunt poisons still make since...I mean, good chance a bash from a blunt weapon will still break skin and boom, contact right there lol

Why can't BG have some stuff like that?

Err what are BGs missing? I mean they got Use Poison unless that has been changed...not to mention the Aura makes it slightly harder to save against a Poison roll.