overall structure of the sword coast

[Steve]

setting the map, transitions, and starting points so that chars of comparable level ranges

I don't think The Map can really be reset, since there is some canon Lore layout to the Sword Coast.

Transitions from one map to another...as in, only certain Level(s) can use them?

Starting points currently are in Cities. I can't imagine that making certain cities for certain levels would be good for anything but ostracizing Players from a lot of Role-play opportunities.

Right now, if you start as Neutral/Evil on the Surface, you can start in Soubar. Lots of low level leveling possibility there. Or, if any Alignment, you can start at the gate to the Gate, also lots of low low level leveling possibilities there. Maybe Orcs have a hard time of it, with starting locations.

As for the UD, I think starting in Sshamath is fine, considering all the low level possibilities right there, in and around the city.

If I am cautious about my enjoyment being around Characters far from my own Characters Level, I just avoid them. I have both IC and OOC tools at my disposal...and that saves everyone else a whole bunch of "suffering."

But yeah...if you think you can redraw the map, then by all means, take out your pencil and paper and redo the map for us to see how it should be done!!

[aaron22]

draw a new map?... i have an idea to make questing better that would follow along well with a "pocket" map. it was designed with the map as we see it now but that is not steadfast. i have enough script knowledge to put it into a module for the bosses to at least get a gist of what i am thinking.

[NeOmega]

setting the map, transitions, and starting points so that chars of comparable level ranges

I don't think The Map can really be reset, since there is some canon Lore layout to the Sword Coast.

Transitions from one map to another...as in, only certain Level(s) can use them?

Starting points currently are in Cities. I can't imagine that making certain cities for certain levels would be good for anything but ostracizing Players from a lot of Role-play opportunities.

Right now, if you start as Neutral/Evil on the Surface, you can start in Soubar. Lots of low level leveling possibility there. Or, if any Alignment, you can start at the gate to the Gate, also lots of low low level leveling possibilities there. Maybe Orcs have a hard time of it, with starting locations.

As for the UD, I think starting in Sshamath is fine, considering all the low level possibilities right there, in and around the city.

If I am cautious about my enjoyment being around Characters far from my own Characters Level, I just avoid them. I have both IC and OOC tools at my disposal...and that saves everyone else a whole bunch of "suffering."

But yeah...if you think you can redraw the map, then by all means, take out your pencil and paper and redo the map for us to see how it should be done!!

there would be no need to restructure the map against lore.
low leveling is not the issue. the issue to me, is, do i have more fun playing alone, or in a group. the answer for me, and clearly most people, when you check the scry and see who is out in dungeons, is they prefer to be alone. Especially when you see who is out in the less travelled, non quest areas, and low loot areas.

[Sapper Woody]

If this were a pocketed server like that, I probably would not have stayed. To me, that's an OOC limitation on RP. A part of what I loved about the server when I first joined was exploring, and learning what my character could handle and what he couldn't.

Not to mention, I joined Candlekeep when Rein was only about level 4 or 5. What would you propose for factions who are in a higher CL pocket, when they have members who are lower? Seems like your suggestion completely destroys any guild RP.

All in all, I am diametrically opposed to it, as in my opinion, it ruins RP and breaks immersion.

[izzul]

i played at dasaria 2 first, and it had level restricted quests. i had more fun doing those over and over again in groups in six months there, than i have combined here for years. there was one in particular that had all the hallmarks of a good quest, including a nice item for evil chars if you did the side item quest/puzzle. it was always more enjoyable in group than alone although could be done either way. unfortunately dasaria had a pop of 10 when busy, no rig, and stopped at level 20. even so, i almost always found quest mates for a fun time, because the quests were level restricted.

Hey hey... Dasaria 2 player... i soloed the Pandermoneum there (area that wipes 4-8 party team)..

Cons
-But the difference between BG and Dasaria2 is that when you are lvl 14, you cannot do quest with lvl 6 as what Hammer Song shared with us and that discourage RPing.

-A lvl 6 also cannot take quest that is intended only for lvl 14 and above so nope, lvl 6 dont go where lvl 14 goes and vice versa. still discourage RPing.

-Dasaria2 also have crafting that can max your item capability where once you have maxed your item power, you dont feel like adventuring dungeons and interact with friends to buy things anymore. this also discourage RPing.(ex: i have super double adamantine/cold iron/alchemical silver max EB, divine damage maxed+ acid damage maxed and i dont need to scour the whole server to find whatever i want anymore.)

-Limited to lvl 20 only and within 5 months, you already have 3-5 lvl 20 from each class with maxed item power.(hence why i migrate to BG to explore more option playing lvl 30 toon)

-This leads to diminishing of people playing and now its a dead city ruled by Lawful Evil conqueror.(which is what the DM emphasize there. 'bend down to me! or i smack mace you!'.) Not as colorful as BG where you can choose whatever playstyle you want to play and still have friends to play along together with you.

Pros
-The one good thing about Dasaria2 is that there are quest that can only be opened when you are in a party of 5 or 6. (fighting army of Elves ended with going against God and it takes 1 hour to 2 hour to finish that quest depends on your party).

-you also can ride horse in Dasaria2 (introduced late 2010)

-Dasaria2 have a map like "Storm of Zehir" where you can battle each other good and evil there(Overland Map).

[NeOmega]

If this were a pocketed server like that, I probably would not have stayed. To me, that's an OOC limitation on RP. A part of what I loved about the server when I first joined was exploring, and learning what my character could handle and what he couldn't.

Not to mention, I joined Candlekeep when Rein was only about level 4 or 5. What would you propose for factions who are in a higher CL pocket, when they have members who are lower? Seems like your suggestion completely destroys any guild RP.

All in all, I am diametrically opposed to it, as in my opinion, it ruins RP and breaks immersion.

its not really ooc. the pocketing is done by 5 choke points that are hard to progress through on the way to the next higher pocket, and still a challenge to go back down to the lower pocket, (deadly on the way up, dangerous on the way down)

also, now most transitions are marked with cr ratings, so exploring to see what is out there has been given an ooc bash. i also enjoy exploring, and still have yet to visit hlaf the maps on the server. i dont see how pocketing would affect this at all.

as far as guilds, i would guess most guild would be based in one of the three main cities , ( soubar, bg, or sshamath), if the guild was in a city in a higher pocket, they could always send an escort down to the lower pocket for lowbie members. once the lowbie member reached the guild hall, they could pay the due, and be able to choose the guild hall as their start point. (bg, sshamath, and soubar would always be available, based on your first choice when your char was created).

In all honesty, i know nothing of guilds, except this, they tend to come and go within months.

[Planehopper]

I am also very opposed. I have, in fact, suggested the very opposite in the past when our server was much more linear. Not a fan of level segregation/pocketing.

As a low level character I enjoy bumping into those of all levels, that's how you build a network. It's how you learn server lore.

Mark me down for a heck no.

[Thayvian]

It just makes me feel that this server needs a full re-work from the ground up. However how do you implement that with a volunteer staff? Balance will always be an issue.

I remember RPing adventuring in the kobold ruins with a character a few levels lower than me an orc named Grrunk I think. Best roleplaying of a dungeon crawl I have seen here in a very long time. Really good role-play and slow dungeon crawl. Super refreshing. Singular experience.

The main reason I solo most of the time is because people RUN through every dungeon just for loot.

If i see it I just don't even communicate with anyone in the party and leave the party. I refuse to act like an idiot and pretend it's good rp.

So I can honestly say that pocketing will not fix the issues. The only thing that will fix the issues is Stricter Guidelines on Roleplay and push for a More Serious Player base.

And the realization that a lot of your player base wants a PW world. And not a joke.

But I doubt role-play will ever fully be supported. Because people here care way to much about the FEELs "Not mah Roleplay" or "My gnome named bubbles mckstaby orc is the best Roleplayer ever""!!

This server will never actually work unless you enforce maturity and PW. People will always try to Min Max always RUN through dungeons only giving lip service to roleplay.

And they will always exploit the game mechanics.

Players will always take advantage and use other higher level tunes to help them level quickly.

These Powergamers will use things like a PLUS 30 Influence to likewise try and force you to RP a certain way. Or try to push your tune around if they notice your a lower level.

D&D is suppose to be a small group of 4 to 5 friends with a Dungeon Master making sure they don't do stupid things.

It does not work as an MMO without much stricter rules on maturity and PW Roleplay.

The Roleplay and PW guidelines here are very very weak for example NO rules on running/walking through dungeons.

Roleplaying guidelines and rules needs an overhaul and the staff and player base should not be afraid to hurt peoples feelings in the process. Which currently seem to be limted to don't be evil in town, and don't name your tune someone famous.


I know it sounds harsh but if you want better PW RP experience than you need to crack down on the people abusing game mechanics.

Because they will unless you make rules against it. Right now even on the server the metagaming rules. Don't even meat the Text book definition of Metagaming. And can be easily circumvented. Or people out right denying that the text book definition is not meta gaming because the server rules version is different.

I've seen to many people abusing game mechanics and calling it RP to ignore.

But if I say anything I'm the bad guy or a troll.

I would like to say there are a few really good role players. Who don't abuse game mechanics the Orc character Ghrunk I think. I met last night was really excellent at roleplaying.

But there are a lot of people that don't give a crap about PW and will never once try pressing shift or even emoting except maybe the dance feature.

Until you crack down on this you will always have an unbalanced nightmare. People will care more about the LOOT they get than the experience and what their high level tune entities them to.

[NegInfinity]

Opposed to it.

it is my opinion the server needs to be more "pocketed".

As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

That could work if BG had 500+ online players active simultaneously at all times.

Instead of that there are 30..50 people spread out over 300+ zones.

This leads to situations where it is possible to spend hours without finding ANYONE to interact with. And implementing pockets would only make it worse.

So, no.

This, i believe foster more interactive adventuring, more fair and realistic PvP conflict, and better roleplay in general.

I also recommend to drop ideas of "fair" and "realistic", fantasy game is not realistic, and "realistic" is opposite of "fair". Realism means that some people are just stronger and more experienced, are in entirely different league from you and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

So, the game is already realistic enough.

------

In my experience, pockets already existed when chests could only be lootable in certain level range. However things have been greatly improved when chests become lootable by everybody, because it encouraged exploring, which resulted in larger amount of interaction between people.

[NeOmega]

Opposed to it.

it is my opinion the server needs to be more "pocketed".

As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

That could work if BG had 500+ online players active simultaneously at all times.

Instead of that there are 30..50 people spread out over 300+ zones.

This leads to situations where it is possible to spend hours without finding ANYONE to interact with. And implementing pockets would only make it worse.

So, no.

This, i believe foster more interactive adventuring, more fair and realistic PvP conflict, and better roleplay in general.

I also recommend to drop ideas of "fair" and "realistic", fantasy game is not realistic, and "realistic" is opposite of "fair". Realism means that some people are just stronger and more experienced, are in entirely different league from you and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
.

Son , I could pick on noobs and lowbies, and even some level 30s who are still clueless, all day.

Dude... ...nevermind. You'll never get it.

[NegInfinity]

Son ,

"Don't 'Son', me, kid, I still remember changing your grandfather's diapers!" Or something.

This is an old game, and most of the people are adults. And there are people who are going to be older than you are.

I could pick on noobs and lowbies, and even some level 30s who are still clueless, all day.

Go ahead. Assassins have bills to pay.

Griefing is punishable by rules as well.

So, just go for it.

[NeOmega]

I could pick on noobs and lowbies, and even some level 30s who are still clueless, all day.

Go ahead. Assassins have bills to pay.

Yeah. I'm here to have fun with people. Not pick on them because I have all the phat lootz (I do) and all the best buildz (and my buildz can be brutal when I so choose).

I don't want to run around with my level 19 paladin and smite level 3 orc baanites. I know I am supposed to RP wise. Thing is, I'd rather not be put in that situation in the first place. I don't care if its "realistic", or not. By realistic, I meant the thing where people play their characters cautiously when approaching PvP, until suddenly, boom, now they accept any challenge, because they are finally level 27, and their character is now "fully developed for RP"

And maybe that's why this isn't the server for me. As I've already concluded last night. It just isn't working for me.

I'm not angry.

I knew that even if every person on the server said "great idea NeOmega", that the server would still be in its current format until this were implemented, and it would take months, if not years.

I meant to leave a few days ago, but then saw dedudes random quest was in beta, and like the CR scaling that drew me back in, I really wanted to see how it played out.

But this place just isn't working for me.

I must say, this is the best gamer corner of the internet in the world that I have met. It's toxicity is very low compared to everywhere else.

But I gotta go.

Maybe Ill pop back in another couple years. I doubt it.

[NegInfinity]

Yeah. I'm here to have fun with people. Not pick

Then you're trying to "fix" a non-existing problem.

At the end of the day, you disliked one experience, and propose to change the server because of it.

Thing is, I'd rather not be put in that situation in the first place.

Then don't play paladins. Otherwise report to DM to have your paladin go through fall and redemption process due to breach of the code.

Being honor bound to a sacred code is a serious business. A small evil should not be allowed to grow stronger, when your character has sworn to fight it.

---------

Your problem is that you're thinking too rigidly.

You've run into level 3 banites/bhaalist and caught them red handed. Rather than picking the boring option where you stomp them into ground, you could turn them to authorities. This will lead to IC interaction and will also open up opportunities for those characters to do something. They can also fool or misguide your paladin as well. Perhaps there's 5 level 30 orcs heading your way and they can stall you. Also, since there's more than one, some of them can run off and rat you out to their friends.

Instead of going along with situation that has multiple potential ways to unfold, you go to the forums and propose to prevent it from ever happening.

Either don't play paladins, or use your imagination more. Also, i'd recommend to stop thinking in MOBA terms. A lot of your ideas have a strong mmo feeling to them.

[NegInfinity]

now they accept any challenge, because they are finally level 27, and their character is now "fully developed for RP"

I have not seen this happen on BG. Ever.

I did see it several times on sigil. It does not occur on BGTSCC.

I must say, this is the best gamer corner of the internet in the world that I have met. It's toxicity is very low compared to everywhere else.

So the right idea is not to ruin it. That's the way I see it.

----

What you've been doing for the past few weeks is the same thing I've been doing in 2014 where I posted a flurry of propositions to "improve" things.

By now I realize this is a waste of time. The right idea is to accept things the way they are now, don't expect anything to change, and relax a bit. This way, it'll work out.

Trying to change everything will only leave you frustrated and most of the time will achieve nothing. At least that was my past experience.

So, take it easy and relax a little. I'm currently on a short break myself, but the thing is when I was playing a while ago your forum activity dwarfed your in-game presence. Of course it is possible that the timezones didn't overlap in the right way.

[Valefort]

Such pockets would need artificial (from an IC point of view) choke points, also most of the time running, going invisible, sneaking are quite enough to travel without hindrance even at high levels.

To counter this there would be chokepoints with detectors inside chokepoints areas, now take muling/twinking into account and there is no fair solution. So just for that it's not truely doable except completely gating any transitions arbitrarily which would be a major hindrance.

Besides that I never perceived the level disparities as an issue but more like a richness, as for RP strictness and rules what I read above is even more impossible. Rules to not RUN in a dungeon ? Even though it can often make sense ? Even assuming it was a good idea how are you going to enforce it at all ? This is highly unrealistic, the first rule of the server is :

"This is a roleplay server set in the Forgotten Realms campaign world. Please respect the setting and stay in-character (IC)."

Which is completely sufficient, do not be surprised if people don't see staying IC as you would though. However shocking and foolish running in a dungeon can be in many circumstances chances are they consider what they're doing perfectly IC nonetheless. Try calling them out ICly for their recklessness, if they refuse it is perfectly IC to leave them to their own devices and adventure at your own pace.