Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2018)

[Steve]

You know...if I was a dragon, is someone summoned my arse for a 3 minute fight against terrible odds, I'd be pretty pissed off! And NO ONE PISSES OFF A DRAGON!!!

If you're smart, dat iz.

I mean, this Epic Act of Conjuration should have a 5% minimum chance for the Dragon to arrive TOTALLY HOSTILE to all Parties, the conjurer included.

C'mon man...it's a DRAGON.

[Cenerae]

You know...if I was a dragon, is someone summoned my arse for a 3 minute fight against terrible odds, I'd be pretty pissed off! And NO ONE PISSES OFF A DRAGON!!!

If you're smart, dat iz.

I mean, this Epic Act of Conjuration should have a 5% minimum chance for the Dragon to arrive TOTALLY HOSTILE to all Parties, the conjurer included.

C'mon man...it's a DRAGON.

Should apply to all summons, then. Just because it's a dragon doesn't mean it's going to be somehow more pissed off than a Solar or Balor would be when you forcefully drag them from their swanky pads to use as cannon fodder.

And besides, it *is* an epic spell.

[Hoihe]

You know...if I was a dragon, is someone summoned my arse for a 3 minute fight against terrible odds, I'd be pretty pissed off! And NO ONE PISSES OFF A DRAGON!!!

If you're smart, dat iz.

I mean, this Epic Act of Conjuration should have a 5% minimum chance for the Dragon to arrive TOTALLY HOSTILE to all Parties, the conjurer included.

C'mon man...it's a DRAGON.

And Bronze dragons, while generally preferring teaching a lesson to their foes, are staunchly good aligned and will fight evil. Not so much as a silver dragon - them being the real paladins with the golds hiding in their thrones.

[Steve]

Well, the way Summons act when summoned is far different of a negotiation than when Planars are summoned (talking about Summon Monster I-IX versus Planar Binding/Gate).

I tried finding more information, but Summons line seems to allow for a certain and immediate dominance over the Being summoned, while Planar Binding/Gate is a “request” to your Deity or being of a like-minded plane, after which a negotiation takes place in a round, requiring various forms of payment depending the task (and nothing suicidal).

Dragons are not Planar, nor outsider/elemental like most Summons pull from. So I see a difference here to “availability” and capability and “realism” to a 3 minute pop-up dragon for grinding Bosses.

Take it or leave it!

[dedude]

I think we can assume this is a "summon" spell, and not a "calling" spell. A calling spell will teleport/gate an actual being to your side, which retains control of its own actions and mind. Depending on the spell and task this can require negotiation with the being. Only exception is the Gate spell, with which the caster can chose a short term task that the being is then magically compelled to perform.

A summon spell will create a physical copy of a creature type and put it completely under the control of the caster. If the summon dies, it is just the magical copy that dies.

[matelener]

Maybe the description of Dragon Ally can help:

Dragon Ally, Lesser
(Spell Compendium, p. 72)

Conjuration (Calling)
Level: Sorcerer 5, Wizard 5,
Components: V, XP,
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: One called dragon of 15 HD or less
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You feel some of your lifeforce being pulled from you in the casting of the spell. A large dragon lands nearby. "You wish to discuss something?" it asks, eying your belongings.

This spell calls a dragon. You can ask the dragon to perform one task in exchange for a payment from you. Tasks might range from the simple (fly us across the chasm, help us fight a battle) to the complex (spy on our enemies, protect us on our foray into the dungeon). You must be able to communicate with the dragon to bargain for its services.

The summoned dragon requires payment for its services, which takes the form of coins, gems, or other precious objects the dragon can add to its hoard. This payment must be made before the dragon agrees to perform any services. The bargaining takes at least 1 round so any actions by the creature begin in the round after it arrives.

Tasks requiring up to 1 minute per caster level require a payment of 50 gp per HD of the called dragon. For a task requiring up to 1 hour per caster level, the creature requires a payment of 250 fp per HD. Long-term tasks (those requiring up to 1 day per caster level) require a payment of 500 gp per HD).

Especially hazardous tasks require a greater gift, up to twice the given amount. A dragon never accepts less than the indicated amount, even for a nonhazardous task.

At the end of its task, or when the duration bargained for elapses, the creature returns to the place it was called from (after reporting back to you, if appropriate and possible).

XP Cost: 100 xp.

Special: Sorcerers cast this spell at +1 caster level.

[Glowfire]

I submitted this changes a while ago:

• new good aligned creatures: celestial treant, asura and hound archon.
• magic circle and protection vs alignment now protect against law, chaos, good or evil.
• magic circle vs alignment can now be used to create 9 different calling diagrams (not functional).
• Gate can now be used to create a interplanar portal: Upper, Outer, Lower Planes (not functional).

This sounds neat. If the diagrams can be used to RP a summoning, that gets a thumbs up from me.


I'd rather not have a diagram and needing to negotiate for mins every time a being is summoned. It'd need to be a two-step thing, like with the gems where you've already had the negotiations and can summon the creature instantly in a fight/whatever.

That said, I don't want all summons to be an 'item in your inventory'-thing. Inventory space is at premium already, especially for mages and clerics I feel who carry a lot of wands and scroll. Scrollcases are but a nice dream

[Nachti]

Na, it would be a one-time negotiating for each summon and without using a gem. It would also remove the summon restriction and use a skill/bribe dialogue system instead. People could also break the diagram by stepping into the circle (causing havoc).

However at the moment I do not feel on continuing this - the polymorph project drained me alot. I guess people can already RP "all this" with the new diagrams... so =).

[Glowfire]

Understandable.

I love the idea of just having diagrams for RP purposes. The ones DMs can create tend to fall through the floor and be quite small for purpose... so this is still very nice.

[aaron22]

i have no idea what any of this means.. maybe i will not be so confused when i see it in game. prolly will though.

[Nachti]

[Tsidkenu]

Is it sad when I can read the mirrored Hebrew text on the top one of those?

(Isaiah 6:3 - וקרא זה אל־זה ואמר קדושׁ קדושׁ קדושׁ יהוה צבאות מלא כל־הארץ כבודו׃)

Anyway, will these be compulsory casting? Simply because I'm one of those cleric players that will not cast spells with prohibited descriptors (eg. good clerics cannot cast Protection/Magic Circle from Good, as it has the evil descriptor, and vice versa for evil clerics).

[Nachti]

The diagrams are numbered 1-9. Theres no alignment signed to them.

[V'rass]

Nice.

[Snarfy]

I just took this feat on my cleric, and I took it for a test drive against the epic batiri and ogres on the big hill near Corm Orp. All I have to say is: !!!!!