Server Economy & Gold

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Dagesh
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Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by Dagesh »

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I would like to discuss gold and its impact on this server. I'm going to look at where it comes from, what it is used for, the impact it has in stages, and some ideas to spread its impact.

See spoiler at the end of this post to find other forum threads on gold/economy.

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Where does gold come from?

Fresh gold (By fresh I mean not been on a PC before)
-Regular loot (bodies/loot spots)
-Selling items to NPCs
-DM Events
-Slot Machines!
-Quests

Old Gold
-Player to player
--Buy/Sell forums & Auction House
--Muling/Gifted
-Guild to Player/Player to Guild

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Where does gold go?

-Burned gold (By burned I mean never seen again)
--Merchants
---Usables (Potions/Heal kits/etc.)
---Weapons/Armor
--Guild Bases
--Spells
--Slot Machines!
--Consignment fee for IG auction house
--RCR (Intentional or not :D )

-Warm gold (By warm I mean transferred from one place to another kinda like when coins sit in your pocket for a while)
--Player to Player
--Buy/Sell forums & Auction House
--Muling/Gifted
-Guild to Player/Player to Guild

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Stages of Gold Usage?

Stage 1 - Almost all Burned Gold - New PC who knows no one and has little gold. Most gold is initially burned for weapons and armor.
Stage 2 - Mix of Burned and Warm Gold - PC has earned enough gold to find better deals on the auction. A lot of gold is saved up and spent in auctions/epic store although a good amount still goes to usables for learning spells/supplementing buffs/healing
Stage 3 - Mostly Warm Gold - Enough gear has been purchased to make usables obsolete. For example +4 Natural Bonus Amulet makes barkskin potion obsolete. Still some burning/warm gold but mostly to supplement gaps in gear/healing.
Stage 4 - Occasional burned/warm gold - Gear is set and optimal. On occasion things like heal potions or useful items come up but they can be purchased from other PCs. Accumulation of gear begins to stack and eventually becomes the better commodity than gold.

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Thoughts Based on the Above

As a player progresses through the server, most of the gold burned occurs in earlier stages. It's when proper gear is gathered that we see gold begin to stack up. Add in another layer of complexity with muling and suddenly we have a lot of warm gold.

This means that our economy is demanding for those at lower levels but once folks reach a satisfactory level of gear, the amount of gold burned begins to drop significantly. There will come a point where a bulk of players will hit a wall and hardly need gold anymore even with regular gold-sinks. If a player has the best gear possible with a surplus of other good gear, there is next to no incentive for gold, either to spend it or to buy with it except for usables and spells which is negligible.

In a regular economy, wealth can be used to hire people for goods and services but here those things are limited.

As it is, most low level (non-muling) players will have little (or nothing) to offer a higher level, gold-heavy player. Better than fresh gold further bloating the amount of gold in the economy would be to have a way for gold-heavy players to transfer gold to gold-hungry players for some kind of meaningful service.
(Note: This could come in the form of crafting, especially if crafting required loads of mundane parts that were further refined into greater ones. If crafting is tied to regular leveling, as opposed to a separate crafting improvement system, it won't see the kind of activity it could apart from regular leveling [but that's another post down the thread, I guess]. That said, not everyone needs crafting goods)

Therefore, Gold-starved PCs need something to offer gold-heavy PCs so that gold remains valuable at all stages.

######################
Last edited by Dagesh on Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dagesh
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by Dagesh »

One further thing,
Low to mid level players make up the bulk of the playerbase. Often low level players will come and go allowing for gold to be burned in the process. This means that the economy of gold remains valuable because the supply drops enough for the demand to continue.
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

You forgot about the gold deleted upon RCR.
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Egg Shen
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by Egg Shen »

I think we missed the boat on preying upon everybody's vanity. Looking super sharp with your gear should cost lots and lots of gold. Not sure there's any way to reign that in at this point, but it's the sort of thing that works well in "free-to-play" games.
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by Valefort »

Therefore, Gold-starved PCs need something to offer gold-heavy PCs so that gold remains valuable at all stages.
What can low level players do that high level ones can't though ? :think: Even if we gate an area through a gold check and/or experience check there's no stopping people from using alts to pass the check.
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Steve
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by Steve »

Taxes.

*waits for the flying lettuce and tomatoes*

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Miyuki
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by Miyuki »

Even if you guys might stone me now:

I don't see a problem with earning gold or the value of gold here. I must explain, i come from rather strict german RP servers where you could be happy if your toon could earn 50 gp per week by skills like heal, perform, lore etc..
When i came here my eyes fell out when Freya's first boss gave her 10k for the week! :shock:
Compared to other servers i find it easy to earn gold on BG. Which is good, it keeps people occupied to earn money for expensive items, housing etc.. :)

The problem i see is rather in merchant players who trade for items only. There are players like me, who are, even in highlevel areas rather unlucky at finding really good items to trade.
Those playwer never can get to really good or epic items becuase other player won't trade with them.
Those players rather would make a million or several millions than getting to good items. Which means, in the end you sit on your gold and it doesn't help you.

So, i see the porblem in the player/toon attitude. If players would less think "What is good for me and my toons?" but more think "What can i do to help other players and myself?" some things would be easier here. ;)
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Steve
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by Steve »

Yes, Chambo, I agree and your suggestions are great!

Also, just saying...:
The Fist normally hires out at a base rate of 10,000 g.p. Per Day...
Solve all political problems...MIGHT EQUALS RIGHT!!! :twisted:

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CommanderKrieg
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by CommanderKrieg »

White dragon gave me 3 copper necklaces and a soap stone. Damn resessions got everyone.
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Dagesh
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by Dagesh »

Valefort wrote:
Therefore, Gold-starved PCs need something to offer gold-heavy PCs so that gold remains valuable at all stages.
What can low level players do that high level ones can't though ? :think: Even if we gate an area through a gold check and/or experience check there's no stopping people from using alts to pass the check.
One things low levels do well is mundane tasks. It would be good if, whatever the theoretical task is, the low level player also benefits from it XP-wise too. The idea here is that a gold-heavy character can pay someone for a task that then frees up time for the gold-heavy PC while also providing some beneficial service. Right now I see that in some sort of crafting system but I find that limiting. I can't think of anything else that would provide that, though. Hence this thread.
chambordini wrote: Taxes should provide some benefit, like being a citizen of Baldur's gate, or being able to be a landowner, or a weapon carrying permit, or an exotic animals ownership permit, or a chart to establish a lawful organization, like a mercenary company, etc

Mechanically meaningless pieces of paper but gives some RP value and maybe some DM interaction legitimation.
Agreed. Gold that goes out needs to have something in return. Personally I would be okay with DM events even being impacted by large sums of gold paid out by players but that's a whole 'nother can.
--
My main thought is not simply finding ways for gold-heavy PCs to burn gold although if there were some meaningful ways, it would make gold valuable, even to fully-geared and gear loaded merchants. What I really believe would be great is if gold-heavy PCs would find a service from gold-starved ones so that distribution becomes more even. If we throw away gold on gold-heavy PCs, it still doesn't help those who are gold-starved.
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by jmbrosendo »

We could place a trigger that randomly spawns a Demogorgon from the Plane of Gold, if a rich player with pockets lined of gold coins happens to be passing by.......
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by DM Ditto »

I had a few working ideas:
  • A working crafting system that uses gold, among other components. ICly it can be explained by paying for off-screen amenities such as miscellaneous components, service fees of a proper workshop, and the like.
  • (Probability of) item loss upon being fugued. This can either substitute for the EXP removal or be in addition to.
  • A merchant that sells nothing but “mystery boxes” for a nominal fee (though more than what you’d get from selling something at maximum Appraise value). What’s in the box? Well, there’s an endless amount of items and no items at all in the box until it is successfully opened, in which then the waveform collapses and the contents become apparent. Or in short, it’s random.

...I said they were working ideas, not good ideas! :lol:
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Sun Wukong
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

*Reads the second thing on the list.*

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NegInfinity
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by NegInfinity »

Dagesh wrote: As a player progresses through the server, most of the gold burned occurs in earlier stages. It's when proper gear is gathered that we see gold begin to stack up. Add in another layer of complexity with muling and suddenly we have a lot of warm gold.
Dude, how should I put it... I played here for some time, and didn't ever have a character that had all the gear gathered.

For example, properly outfitted sneak requires multiple pieces of gear each of then going for 300 500 k gold, so you'll be looking at something betwen 1.2 and 2.0 million gold. I don't have even one piece of this.

It is true that you can get basic set of gear for something like 200k for most characters, but past that point there will be massively expensive pieces you'll be looking at for some time probably without ever gathering them all.
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aaron22
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Re: Server Economy & Gold

Unread post by aaron22 »

if low gold player wants to be more like a high gold player then they should put in the work to be there. its not like there is a limited number of available high gold players that the economy can hold.

put in the work
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