The conflict of two styles of RP - the Story and the Exper..

[Apis]

Did I miss someone proposing permanent death, or is this just a fanciful thought exercise?

[Steve]

How can you even ascribe loss to a virtual non-entity?

At base level, Hoihe, no one is forcing you to play this game. Thus, logically, there is no force to create anything more or less than your own capacity, which, by the way, is the one thing we may possibly be able to constructively debate, that being Quality.

Now, if you want to argue that either quality of character or quality of RP of that Chatacter is lost on Permadeath, I simply ask you to read the last page of the Infinite Appreciation page.

[NegInfinity]

Relevance is borne from story.

For "relevance" to hold value, one must value story over character.

Nah. Now you're just trying to shoehorn this into system you've come up with.

Relevance means this:
Would you play BGTSCC maps in single player? Without other people? That's the perspective of not relevant character.
Also, are you amazed by the personality and achievments of ... FAI guard? That's impression not relevant character gives.

Characters decay and do not hold infinite playing potential within them, regardless of chosen perspective. First person, third person, whatever perspective - past certain point you'll have a wreck overburdened with past events and historical baggage.

Anyway. I think a better idea would be to concentrate the efforts on in-game characters and not on forums...

[Hoihe]

Relevance is borne from story.

For "relevance" to hold value, one must value story over character.

Nah. Now you're just trying to shoehorn this into system you've come up with.

Relevance means this:
Would you play BGTSCC maps in single player? Without other people? That's the perspective of not relevant character.
Also, are you amazed by the personality and achievments of ... FAI guard? That's impression not relevant character gives.

Characters decay and do not hold infinite playing potential within them, regardless of chosen perspective. First person, third person, whatever perspective - past certain point you'll have a wreck overburdened with past events and historical baggage.

Anyway. I think a better idea would be to concentrate the efforts on in-game characters and not on forums...

You move away from home. Did you life lose its relevance?

Same applies for characters. You lose people to interact with? You seek new people. You keep on living as your character. Because for you, losing yourself to your character for duration of play is the essential point you derive satisfaction from.

How can you even ascribe loss to a virtual non-entity?

At base level, Hoihe, no one is forcing you to play this game. Thus, logically, there is no force to create anything more or less than your own capacity, which, by the way, is the one thing we may possibly be able to constructively debate, that being Quality.

Now, if you want to argue that either quality of character or quality of RP of that Chatacter is lost on Permadeath, I simply ask you to read the last page of the Infinite Appreciation page.

If your reason to roleplay is to lose yourself and replace that temporarily with another, losing that mask is a major knife in the gut.

And yes, no one is forcing one to play a game. However, if a game stops being pleasurable, then one will stop even trying. Permadeath does that by reducing the quality of characters and masks.

[Dagesh]

If a character is more important than the story for someone, why not play a single player game? The point of an online game is that someone's PC will be impacted by other PCs and swept along in the grander story with everyone else, sometimes against the desire of a player. Trying to prevent unwanted outcomes for the sake of a character seems counter-intuitive to the setting.

I don't support forced perma-death either unless consequences are understood and agreed to ahead of time.

[Hoihe]

If a character is more important than the story for someone, why not play a single player game? The point of an online game is that someone's PC will be impacted by other PCs and swept along in the grander story with everyone else, sometimes against the desire of a player. Trying to prevent unwanted outcomes for the sake of a character seems counter-intuitive to the setting.

I don't support forced perma-death either unless consequences are understood and agreed to ahead of time.

The point of utmost importance is to live life through a given character. This cannot be achieved in a scripted single player game. The only way to achieve it is to be an island in a river that reacts to the currents and ebbs and flows.

Did I miss someone proposing permanent death, or is this just a fanciful thought exercise?

The forums keep proposing permanent death ever 3rd or 4th week and I've grown tired of it. I've found it high time to take the initiative and propose its opposite.

[Reckeo]

The point of utmost importance is to live life through a given character.

God no.

[Dagesh]

The point of utmost importance is to live life through a given character. This cannot be achieved in a scripted single player game. The only way to achieve it is to be an island in a river that reacts to the currents and ebbs and flows.

I can understand that but, if I understand correctly (been reading from the top and following along), you're saying that a focus on the story is at the detriment of focusing on the character. Is that correct?

I am also getting the impression that there is pushback to things required against a player's PC if it goes against something the player desires. To say it another way, if the story pushes so hard that it affects the PC and the player does not like it, despite the story responding ICly, then the player has the right to get out of that RP for the sake of the character. Granted, there are degrees of this, but is that what you're saying?

[Sun Wukong]

The forums keep proposing permanent death ever 3rd or 4th week and I've grown tired of it. I've found it high time to take the initiative and propose its opposite.

I think you should just post this on those topics:

If you wish to live by that sword, you are already free to die by that sword by your own hand.

As for those glamoring for actual in game permadeath mechanics, well, I have nothing against that if it is 100% optional. There could be another NPC in the nexus handing out undroppable Permadeath trinkets. These trinkets would prevent a character from being raised and would simply delete the character from the vault upon first death. Oh and you would leave behind a body for someone else to loot it, and it would have all your gold, all your items.

[Hoihe]

The point of utmost importance is to live life through a given character. This cannot be achieved in a scripted single player game. The only way to achieve it is to be an island in a river that reacts to the currents and ebbs and flows.

I can understand that but, if I understand correctly (been reading from the top and following along), you're saying that a focus on the story is at the detriment of focusing on the character. Is that correct?

I am also getting the impression that there is pushback to things required against a player's PC if it goes against something the player desires. To say it another way, if the story pushes so hard that it affects the PC and the player does not like it, despite the story responding ICly, then the player has the right to get out of that RP for the sake of the character. Granted, there are degrees of this, but is that what you're saying?

No action should OOC limit the use of a mask/PC. All consequences are acceptable, as long as they are intractable and reversible. Permanent Death by nature is irreversible, and since the character no longer exists, non-intractable.

Loss of entire inventory and mechanical experience (i.e: reset to level 1 with no items beyond the OOC items), loss of political influence, loss of social influence, TEMPORARY loss of physical of mental faculties that can be interacted with and reversed, TEMPORARY death that is intractable and reversible even without interaction.

For "reversible even without interaction", a period of 1 month should be considered the "must elapse for it to occur". Longer than 1 month is highly volatile future and shouldn't be considered. Some players question the volatility of tomorrow, much less months into the future.


As a side note,

I am of the opinion that DM-mandated deaths (to avoid griefing) could cause either inventory drop OR inventory destruction. If not of the whole inventory, then with a variable chance of n items with maybe a weight dependent on AH appraise of value.

The above would provide perfect consequences to act as deterrence, as high-impact "reward" for assassinations without robbing a player of a character.

Could ICly be viewed as giving an item as a collateral to your patron deity to guarantee your resurrection in high risk scenarios when consenting to a high-risk DM event.

For assassinations I dunno how to justify it. Prolly still with "Placing a collateral".

[Dagesh]

No action should OOC limit the use of a mask/PC.

No action at all?

[Hoihe]

No action should OOC limit the use of a mask/PC.

No action at all?

None.

If a player is commiting rulebreaking actions, they should be OOC punished. The character shouldn't be punished.

[Dagesh]

I'm talking IC actions, however. Could there be any IC actions that require IC limits despite a player not wanting the consequences?

[Hoihe]

I'm talking IC actions, however. Could there be any IC actions that require IC limits despite a player not wanting the consequences?

Can these consequences be interacted with and reversed with the right interaction?

Do they limit the field of life or limit it?

[Steve]

If your reason to roleplay is to lose yourself and replace that temporarily with another, losing that mask is a major knife in the gut.

This is a game, Hoihe. Not a knife fight.

Losing oneself in a game is a psychological issue. I suggest you consider this with as much passion as you are putting toward this topic.