UD/Surface Crossing Rules

[Invoker]

In server lore Sshamath has approximately 3500 free human / surface elf residents living there permanently. By no means is it beyond the realm of possibility for powerful surface PCs to visit, and visit safely, if they have appropriate magic. Trade has been an RP reason to be allowed to journey down to Sshamath for a long time.

However, swaggering about like one owns the place and abusing Drow residents should really be considered godmoding the NPCs who would love - love - to teach such visitors the error of their ways (Eg provoking visitors to getting on the wrong side of the wards!). And should be dealt with accordingly, screenshots to the DM team.

Pretty much, yes. Not even those humans and elven denizens do that, and they live there...

[DM Soulcatcher]

Per server lore (It's not canon in any sourcebooks, but it's a thing on our Server) Sshamath has 3000 humans and 500 surface elves living in it, believe it or not.

In canon sourcebooks, both 2nd edition and 3.5, Sshamath's population of those races is lowered to 1% human and handful "emissaries" of other non-monstrous races.

Regardless of that, Sshamath does not allow humans and elves to be slaves in Sshamath. Any slave of that race that comes in and shows a level of understanding magic and knowledge about it, is immidiately freed. However, it's important to note that despite that, Sshamath's drow are still ridiculously evil and xenophobic drow. You can get shanked in Darkwoods or tricked into triggering the city's wards into delivering tortureous pain to you, as an example of the least bad things that might happen to you there. Also any crime/dispute that happens is almost always resolved in favour of Drow, if a drow is involved. The only major difference of these drow is just that they're a magocracy and pay only token service to gods, instead treating the Art itself on border of their religion. And that's Sshamath in general.

That's my (very short) understanding of it. For any solid answer from the DM Team, you'll need to contact the DM Team proper.

[Steve]

Even if Sshamath has Humans and surface Elves, what is not being addressed enough is the GETTING to Sshamath through the Upperdark/Underdark, which for Surface-based Characters, Epic or not in power, would be in 99.9% of the time a suicide mission of travel.

Then, even if you get there, that exact xenophobia brought up would most likely be your downfall, unless your PC is a Drow AND of some power/status.

This isn't telling people how to RP. It is looking at the Environment as it has been created and supported over many years both Canon and Server Lore.

It is unfortunate that the Server and mechanically, going to Sshamath is a cakewalk AND that Players do take OOC desires and go IG OOC to fulfill them, especially silly with Sshamath, Rockrun, and non-Surface locations in general.

We should all applaud those trying to make the UD more realistic and a more Lore-based experience, and it's a pity that it cannot be respected so often by others. I know for one that when I've played a UD character, I was very much turned off by the shenanigans and the lack of Lore-based setup in the Design. I've always looked at the UD as a place for a very intense, difficult and challenging environment...but so many times it was an experience of better-Loot-grindfest or RP light sexy-Drow-in-tights-dominatrix-House moments.

Bummer!

[Israe]

What I've yet to see is UD players crying about their immersion lol. I encourage players to come to the UD, if you need an rp reason, hit me up. We will make our own plots after discussing your rp goals or what you're seeking, and I will tailor my side of the encounter towards a reasonable goal. I encourage cross realm travel, I don't encourage ignoring us in the UD for your loot runs in the upperdark.

[Sun Wukong]

Wrong. The Drow of Sshamath are far, far more powerful than the Red Dragons and inhabitants of Baator the PCs can find. Just like those same PCs do not roflstomp the Dukes and the Fist, based on the same criteria.

That is more due to the effort to maintain somewhat static role-playing environment rather than a result of actual lore based might of these settlements. It is a result of a choice between giving players complete freedom to act out as the monthly 'Stabby McStabbies' or actually allow time investment to manifest into a degree of 'in-character-might' due to interactions with other players and NPCs. With the former: the only thing that matter is your PvP build and equipment. While with the latter: even a level one character can be a mover and shaker in the realms above and below.

This server has chosen the latter. Now, while this server has had its attempts to lean more towards the former option, I think the choice has already been made and set in stone a very long time ago.

Therefore, some NPCs and NPC factions have become static nigh unmovable monoliths. Which of course has resulted annoyance among the players that would prefer a greater degree of player freedom. Thus even if Duke Eltan got shanked, again, half of the server would rise up to aid in his True Resurrection.

Oh and based on the campaign setting itself, Baator is actually of infinite size while the city of Sshamath is clearly finite. So yeah...

However, it's important to note that despite that, Sshamath's drow are still ridiculously evil and xenophobic drow.

And when it comes ridiculously evil and xenophobic people, wealth possessed is an individual cure to xenophobic sentiments. "This guy has money, I have money, we have so much in common!"

Edit: you can just replace money with arcane might, in this case.

[V'rass]

Getting to Sshamath is only a cakewalk when you know the correct route. It took me hours wandering all over the upper and lower dark before i finally found the way and i came close to dying many times due to wandering into areas i had no business being in. Now that the Darkhold shortcut is no longer functional you have to go through the ogre mage caves and unless you have invis or are high level you probably wont be getting through there.

[LegendOfLight]

speaking of that...we really should have more monsters in the UPD/Underdark who can detect invis when it comes to crossing that border no?

[V'rass]

Would certainly make it more difficult aye.

[Flasmix]

1) Make teleporting impossible
2) Close off paths to Surface/Upperdark
3) Have the only path be through Netherese Maze
4) Problem Solved.

[aaron22]

1) Make teleporting impossible
2) Close off paths to Surface/Upperdark
3) Have the only path be through Netherese Maze
4) Problem Solved.

+1

[LegendOfLight]

1) Make teleporting impossible
2) Close off paths to Surface/Upperdark
3) Have the only path be through Netherese Maze
4) Problem Solved.

+1

+2

[Pan-some]

Thats the way it use to be..............+10

[Steve]

Problems are: teleporting IS possible, by Lore (loss of Pharesses or whatever its called). Varalla's Passage is the tunnel dug out by the Lich Varalla of Darkhold past, and now known—and used—by the Zhentarim of Darkhold. And, by Lore, there are like hundreds of discovered and undiscovered "cracks" in the Surface that would lead one to deeper and deeper below the Surface, however, mechanics just do not allow for the actual experience, which itself would be enough to discourage most sane surface beings, irregardless of even meeting a Drow or other Underdark creature.

Since mechanics cannot be made true to the environment, its always a bit disappointing that mechanics are used then to artificially close something down.

There could be simple KOS for Surfacers in Upperdark/Underdark, and KOS for Under/Upperdark on Surface. Which is 99.9% true how it would be according to Lore. And that requires zero mechanical limitations imposed. I know a lot of Players will be upset that and when they get their arses handed to them be disproportionate Levels encounters, but hey: if it is too dangerous, don't go. That's in-character!!!

If there was one mechanics that I wished could be scripted/introduced, would be that when either Being of one side crossed over to the other INHOSPITABLE zone, they would have random effects applied to them, and the longer they were there, the worse those random effects would be.

And let's not forget that Drow Weapons are made of substances that should disintegrate in Sunlight, after a short time. Want to buy gear from Drow merchants now?!!?

[Sun Wukong]

And let's not forget that Drow Weapons are made of substances that should disintegrate in Sunlight, after a short time. Want to buy gear from Drow merchants now?!!?

That whole thing is due to Faerzress, which Sshamath lacks.

[Tsidkenu]

Random 'effects' are already applied. Anyone without a light source (Light spell or equipped torch/lantern) or Darkvision (as per Drow, Svirf, Dwarf, Orc, Tiefling etc) gets perma Darkness debuff applied to them as long as they remain in Upper/Underdark areas.