Opinions of BGTSCC

[SoThereIWas]

To voice my own opinion here, and only my own. That I plan to take action on more as a player myself.

I think others should focus less on the OOC of things of the server and try to focus more on the IC of things of the server.

I think overall this will help remove a lot of issues and player to player tension that's OOC. I for one don't really have any strong OOC relations with perhaps but one, and I like to keep it that way for the above as much as possible. It works a lot of the time, but not all of the time, me like anyone will have bad days, but it's my responsibility to realize when it's time to take a break and what not, just as much as it is with all others.

There's not really much of a fix to this situation as a whole I feel, so long as there is back and forth OOC, there will be tension. But to sound like a broken record here; It's up to the individual to take action for themselves, there is no mechanical solution to this, and not much the team can do either I fear... everyone has to do their part.

But lastly one thing I would like to see as far as RP goes is...

- More cross Rumors/RP over forums and in-game to build interest for current/returning players and others who might be interested in joining as a first time.

[ZestyDragon]

Server numbers always go up and down. The only objection i have lately is I miss old characters, but so long as your open to role playing with new faces. You always have someone to role play with.

Getting banned for good is hard. If you get a warning or temporary ban take it as a sign something you are doing. Is upsetting or taking the enjoyment away from a lot of people. If you can’t have fun without ruining it for others, you shouldn’t be role playing. It’s a cooperative story telling experience.

[Hoihe]

To voice my own opinion here, and only my own. That I plan to take action on more as a player myself.

I think others should focus less on the OOC of things of the server and try to focus more on the IC of things of the server.

I think overall this will help remove a lot of issues and player to player tension that's OOC. I for one don't really have any strong OOC relations with perhaps but one, and I like to keep it that way for the above as much as possible. It works a lot of the time, but not all of the time, me like anyone will have bad days, but it's my responsibility to realize when it's time to take a break and what not, just as much as it is with all others.

There's not really much of a fix to this situation as a whole I feel, so long as there is back and forth OOC, there will be tension. But to sound like a broken record here; It's up to the individual to take action for themselves, there is no mechanical solution to this, and not much the team can do either I fear... everyone has to do their part.

But lastly one thing I would like to see as far as RP goes is...

- More cross Rumors/RP over forums and in-game to build interest for current/returning players and others who might be interested in joining as a first time.

The problem with ignoring OOC is unfortunately that OOC seeps into IC. Be it in form of a group/player telling new players OOCly not to interact with someone for whatever random reason (I had that happen before. Went to the DMs with it, but the damage was still done.), or simply just the fourth wall breaking emotes some people do as commentary.

Regarding the 4th wall breaking emotes - there is a difference between using real world references for imagery in your emotes, and using it to judge someone in a way they cannot react.

Compare (off the top of my head, it's a shitty one but gets the idea across)

*With an almost uncanny premonition, she draws her dagger and stabs the yuan-ti assassin faster than Han shot Greedo.*

*The pretty and charismatic half orc looks at the group of low charisma elves brandishing their fighting staves*

[casadechrisso]

Well, since you've read the journals, you know that we came there not to bully low level adventurers, it was a guild event. We are not stalking the people, we are not intentionally looking for PvP. We are doing our own orcish stuff and plots, but in case we occasionally encounter people during those events, we are treating them with hostility (as orcs should), although we are respectful to others and constantly giving RP outs. We don't mind being defeated too and can accept it, some of the guild members even play 1 life characters who'd be permakilled once they lose a PvP.

I don't really want to get hung up in this particular situation, but maybe I can use it to lead into a broader idea where I'm coming from. I haven't read everything, but yes, I read IC posts from time to time and of course those that might affect me. And since those posts are IC, I don't really know how you guys handle these situations in game and OOC. Now here's my situation - I rarely have any roleplay, I mean, at all, with any groups, high level characters or DMs. I have had two DM interactions ingame in the months I've been playing here, right in the beginning back in April, and that was it. I'm no guild member, I have one or two people I roleplay with from time to time and I'm clueless about all the things that happen on the server, unless I read about it.
So I read up on the forums to have a slight idea what other people are doing and what events look like, and I read all those PvP complaints and the IC posts from you or other groups that are, IC, very gore heavy. So yeah, with this much knowledge I still feel like I just started playing here a week ago, and honestly, when running into these PvP situations I expected only the very worst because I didn't know better.

This is, 1., because I couldn't get into the server playerbase, so I don't know what's really going on. 2., because there is a LOT of very aggressive talk regarding PvP, or what A Small Cute Cat said, chat about who are the better roleplayers in chat, to sum it up, a lot of OOC aggression and hostility, and for somebody not involved it's not always easy to tell sarcasm and humor apart from honest complaints, and 3. a huge focus on build talks about making the best PvP builds. So yeah, in the last two months or so I began feeling the server is an overly hostile environment and I should expect humiliation on every corner. When I then finally ran into hostile situations I was already so tense that you couldn't expect much RP from me anymore. Which I'm quite embarrassed about in the aftermath.

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

It's really what we all must pay attention to:

This is, 1., because I couldn't get into the server playerbase, so I don't know what's really going on. 2., because there is a LOT of very aggressive talk regarding PvP, or what A Small Cute Cat said, chat about who are the better roleplayers in chat, to sum it up, a lot of OOC aggression and hostility, and for somebody not involved it's not always easy to tell sarcasm and humor apart from honest complaints, and 3. a huge focus on build talks about making the best PvP builds. So yeah, in the last two months or so I began feeling the server is an overly hostile environment and I should expect humiliation on every corner. When I then finally ran into hostile situations I was already so tense that you couldn't expect much RP from me anymore. Which I'm quite embarrassed about in the aftermath.

Also, sorry for derailing the thread towards PvP drama. This wasn't my intent (but my fault)

[aaron22]

there seems to be A LOT of assumptions of PvP mongering by orcs/drow/whatever and i can PROMISE you that is not the case in my RP. We have RP goals and aspirations. And we are in fact Orcs.

you turn a corner and see two orcs standing in front of you and you are brave.. then perhaps your character should reevaluate that bravery. if i turn the corner and see a bunch of palis bearing down on me... i might fight and live with the consequences or RP out or run.. but i would not disgrace your RP by simply ignoring it because im scared.

I HAVE NEVER done any mutilation on anyone that did not take full consent. and i have also told the player they may handle the injury however they see fit for the RP they are desiring. I dont care if i cut off a players legs and they grow back in 1 minute from a cure light wounds pot. doesnt matter to my RP at all.

playing an orc, i do not have to "monger" PvP. you guys monger enough for me.. and that is how it should be.. you see an orc at the sharptooth and you kill it.. but you see a PC orc at the sharptooth and you FREAK OUT and think im a bully.. I HAVE A REASON TO BE THERE and its prolly better than your's.. mine is for RP goals, not to collect a head for a quest. you want to kill orc while im there.. gonna be problems.. why? because I AM AN ORC

do you really want me to play an orc any other way? seriously...

HAVE FUN OUT THERE!!

[Wolfrayne]

Ok ill bite and throw in my two cents i suppose.

- The server is trying to be too many things at once. Its trying to be a RP server that also caters to the MMO mindset and it shouldnt be.

- There are too many rules in too many of the wrong places. Players are restricted in what they can do in some ways due to instances with certain people who are simply there to stir the pot.

- Guilds. They are a problem. I believe the guilds/factions of BG should be more controlled by the DM's. let them set the setting and allow players to earn reputation with certain factions and influence them in some ways without giving them control. The many factions of the realm are amazing tools for creating RP. the problem is most players have no clue how to run them properly and in the end they either go inactive or become the same boring routine.

Be the paladin of sune, be the assassin But do so as an associate not as "the lord commander of some guild nobody cares about after a couple of months.

We are supposed to be adventurers who adventure. Not sit around an empty guildhall with people and talk about the same four subjects.

- Consequences for actions. Im talking Real in game consequences. And yes that includes permadeath. Im so sick and tired of hearing "THIS PERSON WAS MURDERED!" only to have them walk past me 5 minutes later. "oh you died 4 times this week? thats nothing i was chased by this guild or this group and killed 13 times already! We should totally go and kill them back!" This is just stupid.

Or having people run around with undead or demons and the like past guards and such like "Oh hai guys just walking my pet balor lols"

Out with the old, in with the new. I dont give a damn if you have played the same character for a million years. Learn to let go. Stories are great because they end. You cant live forever. You only end up as a joke to everyone else behind your back.

- Punishment Should match the crime. Jail time for killing someone? thats just stupid, give them a trial, let them try and talk their way out of it. Then hang em. or let them go if they are clever enough.

In the end BGTSCC Needs to decide what it is. Personally i want it to be a place i go to play my character, to be the evil mage or the druid or the knight. I dont want to come here and spend my time arguing with someone OOC because of some crap or another.

The server misses so many opportunities for great stories and RP

[SoThereIWas]

The problem with ignoring OOC is unfortunately that OOC seeps into IC. Be it in form of a group/player telling new players OOCly not to interact with someone for whatever random reason (I had that happen before. Went to the DMs with it, but the damage was still done.), or simply just the fourth wall breaking emotes some people do as commentary.

Regarding the 4th wall breaking emotes - there is a difference between using real world references for imagery in your emotes, and using it to judge someone in a way they cannot react.

Compare (off the top of my head, it's a (p00pie) one but gets the idea across)

*With an almost uncanny premonition, she draws her dagger and stabs the yuan-ti assassin faster than Han shot Greedo.*

*The pretty and charismatic half orc looks at the group of low charisma elves brandishing their fighting staves*

My post you quoted had a hidden message apparently, that is; Ask less what the server can do for you, do more what you can for the server.

[metaquad4]

Ask less what the server can do for you, do more what you can for the server.

This is actually a very good point, I think. I think I'll strive to put that mindset into my RP in the future. Sort of an extension of "you get what you put in".

[SoThereIWas]

We could use contributors in different areas.

Going to leave this link here for those who want to help out and feel they qualify for a position. Or even for those who want to simply apply.

EDIT: There is also a donation link for those wanting to help fund it.

[Grendunor]

Going to throw my two pence into the pot.
Warning the following post contains language not suited for people with delicate constitutions. If you find swearing like a sailor unpalatable skip ahead though I bet the forum can change all the time I say butt to cloud or something.
Boy o boy that was a lot of swearing I think we need a sea shanty for that.

Hidden: show

Ramble Ramble
Honestly, I've had a lot of fun on BGTSCC DM events, interesting interactions with other players all that jazz.
However, the most fun I've had on BGTSCC I've had is watching how character concept I had in my head shifts and adapts when faced with the interactions of other players and the changing of the world.

When I first made Grendunor years ago I never thought he'd save a Zent from a crazed Paladin doing evil steeple hands cackling about being outside of duke lands and protection.
Nor did I ever think Gren would go down into the Underdark and barter with drow fro the safe release of a captured pair of mages.
those moments are some of the fondest I have with the character because they were an organic reaction. A story that naturally flowed into character development and arguably flaws.

Issues so far as I see it

1: The metaplot is (do-me) hard to run,
like seriously hard to run I can't imagine as a tabletop DM Writing out 52 weeks worth of content from goal one. No plan survives the first contact and you can be sure as shit in a PW your plot is going to hell in a handbasket by week two if you leave the players to their own devices.
Pacing is a real issue, I understand that it's a sandbox and the players need to drive the world. But that said the DM's role is to provide validation and progression for the world setting as a whole as well as the myriad of threads in play.

2: More of the first on a different Verse
With as large of a population as we have If players are left to their own devices, they are going to start kicking at each other's pisspots when conflict shows up as each side exposes how they're the cowboys and the other side is the Indians (Each only considers their story valid).
This is where DM action is needed to reign in these conflicts and ensure they happen in a manner conducive to shared storytelling. ((Yes i'm aware that is a (do-me) off huge task))

3: PvP
Inb4 PvP is not problem.jpeg
Player conflict is unavoidable and is a great medium for storytelling. However, the influx of "n00b Hunting" and the ever-present I'm just role-playing my character excuse gets rather tedious. In pen and paper games when two players at your table start causing party conflict it shits up the whole campaign when done poorly. Especially when it devolves into PvP.

Long ramble about subject 3 ahoy

Hidden: show

Lets say Dave and Denis are playing in a custom setting by the DM.
Dave is a big strong Orc barbarian with all the bells and whistles, Dave has got 10 years of game experience under his belt along with a raging boner for power building.
Denis, on the other hand, is a new player and he really likes the idea of a dwarven runepriest and travelling bard. Denis's build is mechanically weak.
Eventually, Denis and Dave's PC have a falling out, Dave hits for 60 damage a swing and crits on a 16 Denis can cast a few runes and has an AC of potato. Dave kills Denis's character, Now Denis is right miffed his PC is gone so he rolls up a new character with but this time he made clunko the stronk. Clunko dosn't like Orcs and so Dave and Denis fight again this time Denis kill's Daves PC.
Some say the neckbeards are still at war in an ever raging arms race to make the ultimate PvP Build.

The short of it is If PvP is happening in a setting where you have no reasonable chance of losing you're just masturbating to a power fantasy and calling it storytelling.
---------

Potential solutions to problem 1 and 2
Run a metaplot but also use DM's to actively engage guild story arcs that involve not only members but put hooks out for members to interact with the general populace.
I also think it might be a good Idea to cut some of the bloats on the DM team or incentivise action from more than just a few currently putting in the front end work.(This is not a dig at anyone, people get burnt out backend work has to be done much love to our staff of volunteers.)

A monthly quota of events and hours logged running something might cause an upswing in player activity and help give the feel of a living breathing setting. gross I know quotas are gross.

[Passiflora]

Maybe some people also switched to NWN EE since it came out on steam.


But in truth, player numbers are always a wave, at least since I joined in 2009.

Personally I've tried a few comebacks, and sometimes I feel a bit dead inside when I do. Probably because I spent so many hours in already, like many of you.

In 2010 or late 2009 the game was available on Steam for a while, and with it came a really big influx of players that we called the 'Steamers'. It brought quite a wave of grindy types, but still amongst them a few Jewels like Charraj.

If any of you know your way about poking whoever owns nwn2 nowdays into putting it onto steam, you would probably have more waves like this coming in. Might be an Atari/Valve war thing, who knows.

...

Oh. I have -no- clues if this has been dealt with, but I do remember back in the days what troubled me is knowing that some people had in the millions in gold coins. And when I come back, I always imagine that the number of people who have millions went on exponentially.

Which takes away a bit of motivation I must admit.

[Born2BeWild]

Hi there, the only issue i have so far is pvp. It's hard to find and sometimes leads to drama, but more important - you got no idea if person on the other side even wanna pvp. Some kind of checkbox in UI (up for pvp/sometimes/never) will help. Pvpers can find pvpers, other ones can live in peace etc.

[Tekill]

I am glad Hoihe brought up the point about bad some RPing that goes on. It is nice to know I am not the only one bothered by it.

A lot of the issues, such as feelings about improper PVP and OOC cliques are issues that all servers face.
I have consistently been amazed since the first days of NWN1 about how upset people get when things do not go the way they want, IC and OOC- and how they then blame everyone else.

At least it does not happen all the time.

I have noticed snobbery and cliques from the very beginning of any server I played on. It is human nature I am afraid to say.
But, just like the growing and shrinking population of the server, it comes and goes in waves. Right now I have noticed the tail end of a phase of players walking around with sticks up their butts. Therefor my prediction is that in the next couple months the good RPers of the server are going to shine again.

To explain it without opening up my old Intro to Psychology textbook I would have to say that it seems to be often the case that a persons PC often becomes an extension of their ego....or is it the ID? -ah well, you know what I mean!

You mix those exposed egos with the simple clash of opinions and personal preferences (i.e.: you like pvp or not) and things can get out of whack pretty easy.

If we try to make everything fair- we homogenize the game. It becomes boring and no fun, because its too safe and too fair.
But if we do not create rules, the egomaniac's and exploiters start to ruin peoples fun.
I do not think I have to tell you all that it is a fragile balance and that we all need to thicken our skins a bit, and power through the shit that happens.
Because that is really all it is...shit...and shit happens.

In these kind of games there will always be the extremely rich and powerful. The power builders millionaires and those that seem to always get into events. They often dedicate huge chunks of their real lives to the game and so should be rewarded as such.

I will admit though that I do not get on as often as I like, and am playing 3 alts. right now. Perhaps I would not be playing the "thats just the way it is" card so heavily, if I stuck with one toon and played more often.

I think BGTSCC needs to do more of the following:
-to support new players much more.
-Be way more accepting of newbish RPing. (or at least my bad spelling)
-Respect our differences...Some folk don't like Drommon, others (like myself) dont like romance RP. No point being sensitive about it.
-Respect others preferences as well. I will promise to not roll my eyes the next time I see two players snuggling....although I might throw up in my mouth a little....okay sorry, I already failed.
-learn to RP losing better. You can not always win. Do not avoid losing. It is fun.
-check your ego.
-Make room for more player initiated rp and events. Talking to you DM's
-At least address the factions situation. We do not need a perfect solutions but with 1000 factions and religions -and 6 players per faction. Is this working for all of you?
-Let the orcs and drow be free to be orcs and drow!
-Lets stop blacklisting each other- I have RP'd with people I thought I absolutely hated and they turned out to be fun. So who knows.

And that will conclude my weekly rant for this week. Thank you very much for reading.

Have an emoji on me! -->

[Sun Wukong]

OOOH! I do remember that group of uncharismatic elves with their fighting sticks!

The players in question did roll the charisma scores on their characters every now and then, back then. Not to mention that at one point I even asked a DM which of the elves had the highest charisma in order to approach the friendliest looking one and the DM said that it was character 'X' with base 9 charisma. Thus a little later my hooded Sun Elf character in question got slain at the FAI campfire in broad daylight. Generally speaking, non-elven arrogance did not fly with the 'elven community' of the day and visually speaking my Sun Elf was a little bit taller and wider than the usual 'beauty' standard of the elven characters of the day. But that said, I think at one point I tried to sell them some of my bargain +3 Nymph Cloaks on another character! (I sold three!)

I know this might sound like I am complaining, but I think I had a lot fun back then. One way or another.

Anyhow:

*Brandishes that Female Half-Orc's charisma score of 16 at the lot of uncharismatic fighting stick brandishing elves!*

Now, just think about the fantasy stereotypes about elves and half-orcs. With that said and done, consider how there is an attrative 'pin-up' half-orc lady and a bunch of 'visually challenged' elves with pitchforks on their hands. I just find the mental image full of absurdity and that is what makes it very humorous for me.

Edit: I edited phrasing a bit and changed some choice of words, and added bit of text.