Kara-Tur Class

[Evohawk]

Why not? We have pretty much everything in BG right now to make a Samurai class. Alls we need is just a few tweeks and we can make this happen. So my friends on the Coast sit back relax and lets see if this make sense and see if we can put this class together!

New Classes
- Samurai
- Ronin (PRESTIGE CLASS: This class is not available at character creation and must be unlocked by meeting special requirements)
- Kensai

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Quick Definition:
- Samurai's are known for bravery and strict code of honor. Kara-Tur warriors, who followed Bushido, or the Way of the Warrior. Highly honorable fighters, they are skilled warriors and fiercely loyal to their lords (Daimyo). They refer to themselves as "bushi" rather than "samurai". Each samurai is trained in the art of warfare, martial arts, the sword, or the spear as well as in the way of Bushido.

- Ronin, a samurai who had renounced his clan or who had been discharged or ostracized and had become a wanderer without a lord; an outcast; an outlaw. a lordless samurai.

- Kensai He devotes his life to the service of a master. Known as the Sword Saints, and consists of a warrior who has been specially trained to be one with his sword. They are deadly fast, and trained to fight without encumbrance.

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Samurai Requirements

Alignment: Lawful
Class Features:
- Hit Die: d10
- Base Attack Bonus: High.
- High Saves: Fortitude.
- Weapon Proficiency: Martial and Exotic Weapons.
- Armor Proficiency: All Armour. No shields.
- Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier.
- Class Skills: Concentration, Craft Weapon, Craft Armour, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Lore, Parry, Appraise, Taunt.
- Two Weapon Fighting

Ronin Requirements

PRESTIGE CLASS: for Samuari
Class Features:
- Hit Die: d10
- Base Attack Bonus: High.
- High Saves: Fortitude.
- Weapon Proficiency: None.
- Armor Proficiency: None.
- Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier.
- Class Skills: Bluff, Intimidate, Lore, Craft Weapon, Craft Armour, Survival, Set Trap, Craft Trap, Disable Trap, Parry, Taunt.
- Kamikaze - Charge Attack

Kensai Requirements

Alignment: Lawful
Skills: Concentration 5, Diplomacy 5
Attack Bonus: +5
Class Features:
- Hit Die: d10
- Base Attack Bonus: High.
- High Saves: Will.
- Weapon Proficiency: None.
- Armor Proficiency: None.
- Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier.
- Class Skills: Concentration, Craft Weapons, Craft Armour, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Lore, Buff, Parry, Taunt.

(yes I did take some of this from another Server.)

[Evohawk]

Also if we can have the looks of the Katana on our hips in the armor section when we use the kit the make our awesome looking Char. Would be cool to have a little one and a katana like they have.

Also what else would be could to have swords on our backs. kinda like what we have now with the Shield, Bow, and Sword but now just maybe one sword on our back and then have two swords on our backs. Would be sweet Think about it alot of cool people walking around with swords on their backs. Heck throw an Axe back there too or even a spear! The more options people have the better I think

oh and perhaps maybe some Kara-Tur armor? and Helms? Would be cool to have Samurai armor and the helms w/the mask on them.

Here are some links of what we could have I am going for the images here not the link itself

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/11983/
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nw ... ir-samurai
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nw ... murai-helm
https://neverwintervault.org/project/nw ... ing-armour

[Scorpius]

For the Samurai class the two weapon fighting should be only working if the player uses a katana (from longsword or katana) and a wakisashi (on off hand from shortsword)
also with the game mechanics we have at the moment I think this setup was preventing the use of power attack... the only time this worked with dual weild for me was when I used oversised feats and used dual katana.. then the power attack worked...

maybe you could chose is you want to be a two hander or a dual weild ?

the designs are already in game ATM (visual wise)


for the Kensei class
it should be two handed fighting so you could chose from Greatsword (Nodashi, already in game) or the O-Naginata (wich is made from the Halberd and buildable with the apprearance tool kit, I`ve done it in game and looks like the one from my actual picture at your left on my post)
or katana or longsword and used with both hands only maybe ?


as for the skills they should be balanced... I know you said you got this from another server but they would most likely need to be nerfed to fit with the actual system we have on bgtscc


well not sure you guys read until the end again (XD inside, valeford know what I`m talking about) or if you get where I want to go but... well that`s it... for now XD

[Scorpius]

Ho and just to say,

players playing Kara`tur characters have been since I got on this server but nothing as ever been done for them beside the Phantom class

I`ve played with much Kozakuran characters since those past years and lots of Shoulong

but what comes back everytime is : they go to another server because they have the classes out there.

the good part in BGTSCC is we have all languages. thing they dont have on other servers

so our base is already there, only need to polish something out of it, the potential is there to do it easily

[metaquad4]

Honestly, some of these don't even need to be their own classes. We could explore kits for these, like a Samurai kit for fighter.. Not sure if kits are easier to code than classes though.

Whatever is easiest for devs (while still doing the same good quality job) is best.

[Charraj]

I'm of two minds on this one.


On one hand, I don't think the concern about "foreign characters becoming commonplace" is a valid reason to shut it down. We already have rare backgrounds that are commonplace on the server:

• "Aasimar, being more rare than even half-elves, have no true society of their own. Few have the opportunity to meet other aasimar..."
  • -Races of Faerun, page 113
  "Because most aasimar in Faerun are descended from Mulhorandi powers..."
  • -Races of Faerun, page 114

So aasimar are supposed to be very rare. I would say there are definitely more Kara-Turans than aasimar, since Kara-Turans have their own societies. And aasimar are from Mulhorand, which is quite far from the Sword Coast in its own right (check out this map of Abeir-Toril). And yet we have an abdundance of aasimar on the server (I'm not knocking it, I have one too).
I'm just saying, when no one really bats an eye at all the planetouched running around on the server, it seems silly to me that Kara-Turans have to be rare, foreign, and exotic. TBH, I think it's a bleed-over from some outmoded OOC/IRL thinking. Which brings me to my second thought...


I kind of facepalm at the source books available. (BTW Chambo, regarding where to find the classes in the source books, page 16 of Kara-Tur: The Eastern Realms references the (SIGH) "Oriental Adventures" source book.)
Kara-Tur: The Eastern Realms and "Oriental Adventures" both date from the cringe-inducing 1980s. (The inside cover of "Oriental Adventures" straight-up says "The rulebook for AD&D game adventures in the mystical world of the Orient!" ) So I don't really like having to use these source books, since they're literally based on outmoded 1980s Hollywood stereotypes:

• "...the world presented had to be what people think the Orient is, not necessarily what it actually is. Thus, reference works and sources of ideas went beyond books and included popular Japanese movies about samurai and ninja, the whole family of Hong Kong kung-fu movies..."
  • -Oriental Adventures, page 4 (1985)

If we're going to let these classes in, I say go for it. But for Ao's sake, don't bring the 1980s Hollywood stereotypes into the RP.

[Scorpius]

Please add thise hats
https://goo.gl/images/A6uxTz
https://goo.gl/images/5tVttD

The classic samurai shade
https://goo.gl/images/JnV6bj


The monk hat
https://goo.gl/images/b2LWyq

Variant of the shade
https://goo.gl/images/xjSzQZ


Look in edo era hats for more japanese hats(kozakuran)

And ming dinasty for the shou lung counterpart

[Svabodnik]

[...]Honestly, some of these don't even need to be their own classes. We could explore kits for these, like a Samurai kit for fighter..[...]

If I remember correctly, Pathfinder did their Samurai as a rekit of their Cavalier class (which thematically shares the challenge mechanic with BGtSCC's Man-at-Arms). Maybe a MaA kit that doesn't offer shield-use benefits - which would also be of use for people who may want to go Man-at-Arms but don't want to go sword-and-board with it?

In terms of fluff, considering the notable lack of any daimyo on the west coast of Faerun, I imagine ronin would be far more plentiful than any samurai. So, if such a kit were to be introduced, I imagine it would be named the former.

Kensai conceptually sounds like a katana Weapon Master, with a dip in monk for WIS to AC/evasion.

EDIT: As an added bonus, dipping monk means you can get Ki Step, so you can RP the whole "*teleports behind you* *draws katana* Nothing personnel, kid" meme to your heart's content!

[Evohawk]

[...]Honestly, some of these don't even need to be their own classes. We could explore kits for these, like a Samurai kit for fighter..[...]

If I remember correctly, Pathfinder did their Samurai as a rekit of their Cavalier class (which thematically shares the challenge mechanic with BGtSCC's Man-at-Arms). Maybe a MaA kit that doesn't offer shield-use benefits - which would also be of use for people who may want to go Man-at-Arms but don't want to go sword-and-board with it?

In terms of fluff, considering the notable lack of any daimyo on the west coast of Faerun, I imagine ronin would be far more plentiful than any samurai. So, if such a kit were to be introduced, I imagine it would be named the former.

Kensai conceptually sounds like a katana Weapon Master, with a dip in monk for WIS to AC/evasion.

EDIT: As an added bonus, dipping monk means you can get Ki Step, so you can RP the whole "*teleports behind you* *draws katana* Nothing personnel, kid" meme to your heart's content!

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- your right as I RP a Samurai myself I picked for my classes, MMA & Weapons Master. I think it is the best way to make a Samurai. I guess great minds think alike

In our Guild we have a daimyo(might change as we are working more on our Lore) or a lord in kozakuran. It is an attempt to expand our lore and expand the Community I think to make BGTSCC even better then it already is. Thanks for all your input. hopefully we come up with a reasonable agreement

[RaiderOne]

Ok so we're doing this topic? *opens can of worms*

Since D&D is a fan of the mystical Japanese types I will refrain from posting "too much" historical based information.

Medieval Japan was a class based society. The noble caste was called the samurai, and with other medieval periods the noble caste did the best/most interesting part of the fighting because they had the money and training to do so. Samurai were not epic warriors, but they were better then the comoners around them.

Thus being a samurai means to be a noble. It's not a proffession or class like D&D uses. Now because samurai is a social class the fighting abilities of those people varied massivly. Carrying a sword was a symbol of status, the majority of them could use it but very few were masters. Even fewer were true masters in the way that mystical Japan would have us believe. Most would have used a spear or bow, though this depends on the period and Japan did have many weapons availible.

Also for those that don't know, shinobi or "ninja" were also samurai. Why? because you don't train peasents to be your special forces when you have these men of education and power that can do it far better.

The honor thing comes from periods of history were there were not many wars going on, and samurai would duel each other. Most of it is massive embelishments of truth and there was little in the way of the true honour that mystical Japan pushes so much.

A great example of this is the famous sword master Miyamoto Musashi and his duel with Sasaki Kojirō. To quote wikipedia for some of this;

"On April 13, 1612, Musashi (about age 30) fought his duel with Sasaki Kojirō, who was known as "The Demon of the Western Provinces" and who wielded a nodachi, the Japanese great sword. Musashi came late and unkempt to the appointed place — the island of Funajima, in the Kanmon Straits separating Honshū and Kyūshū. The duel was short. Musashi killed his opponent with a bokken that legend says he had carved from an oar used on the boat that carried him to the island.

Musashi's late arrival is controversial. Sasaki's outraged supporters thought it was dishonorable and disrespectful, while Musashi's supporters thought it was a fair way to unnerve his opponent. Another theory is that Musashi timed the hour of his arrival to match the turning of the tide. The tide carried him to the island. After his victory, Musashi immediately jumped back in his boat and his flight from Sasaki's vengeful allies was helped by the turning of the tide. Another theory states he waited for the sun to get in the right position. After he dodged a blow, Sasaki was blinded by the sun."

Actually he turned up late to engrage his opponent so that he would lose focus and not fight at his best. In short, mystical Japan loves its horse poop.

So for me you dont need a D&D class to represent samurai. If it is decided to add something, and since I already have a samurai-esque toon, I will be happy to contribute more than walls of text.

[metaquad4]

Although, since we are playing D&D, Samurai is an actual class. And because there is the RP your character sheet rule, RPing a Samurai without the class is just as legitmate as RPing an alienist. Aka, you can't actually do it and stay within the rules. You could try to do something similar, but you can't call yourself a Samurai or do exactly what the Samurai in D&D do. Thus, I believe, this is why the class would be viewed as beneficial. So you can stay within the rules whilst still RPing it.

Plus, it would be nice for there to be a heavy armor dual-wielding class aside from Ranger/Tempest.

I like the idea of a man at arms kit. Remove shield proficiency and remove the shield bonuses. Instead, it could gain:

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Samurai:
Man-At-Arms Kit.
Loses: Shield Block, Rescue, Heavy Armor Optimization, Greater Heavy Armor Optimization, Epic Resilience, Shield Proficiency, Guarding the Lord.

Samurai stacks with Man-At-Arms to determine the proficiency of your challenges (Normal, Mocking, and Daunting) and demoralize opponent.

Level 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 5: Bonus Feat
Level 6: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 10: Bonus Feat, Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 11: Mocking Challenge
Level 14: Bonus Feat
Level 15: Bonus Feat, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 16: Daunting Challenge
Level 18: Two-Weapon Defense
Level 20: Bonus Feat
Level 23: Perfected Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 24: Bonus Feat, Improved Two-Weapon Defense
Level 27: Greater Two-Weapon Defense
Level 29: Bonus Feat, Perfected Two-Weapon Defense

Perfected Two-Weapon Defense (New Feat):
Requires: BAB 25, Perfected Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Defense.
When dual-wielding, you gain +2 Shield AC, giving you a total of +5 Shield AC from your two-weapon defense.
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I'm no coder, so Valefort or Chambo could answer on this. But, I don't think it would require too much effort. There are no new feats, barring Perfected Two-Weapon Defense. And that is a general feat, so it might see use with builds. It'll basically give Two-Weapon fighting builds who got every two-weapon defense and fighting feat the equivalent of a +4 light shield for 1 more epic feat expended.

[Svabodnik]

[...]Thus being a samurai means to be a noble. It's not a proffession or class like D&D uses.[...]

In that respect, we would need to rename 'Anointed Knight' and 'Eldritch Knight' to something else, since knighthood was a specific title under medieval feudalism. Samurai technically does hold a rank of nobility in its respective culture. It likewise invokes a vision of the armaments, armor, and fighting style used by those of that status at the time - much in the same way as 'knight' does for western European culture.

[...]Although, since we are playing D&D, Samurai is an actual class. And because there is the RP your character sheet rule, RPing a Samurai without the class is just as legitmate as RPing an alienist.[...]

D&D also has the 'Assassin' class. However, you don't necessarily need to take it if you want to RP being a sneaky murderer-for-hire. An 'Alienist' has specific abilities tied to the class which could not, by any stretch of RP, be provided by an alternate class (in much the same respect as a person UMDing scrolls is not a 'Wizard'). A guy who fights with a yari/katana and is granted certain status by a local lord? Pretty sure that fits a certain loose definition of a samurai. In that regard, I've got played quite a few fighters that don't have a single level in 'Fighter'.

*****

Anyways, in terms of 2WF, samurai would probably be using a katana and a wakizashi ("masterwork short sword", by D&D rules), so Oversized 2WF doesn't make that much sense in that regard. Maybe replace that with two feats - WF (Katana), WF (Short Sword), or Improved Critical for both, to further cement that as the intended fighting style? Admittedly, haven't bothered to check if there are models available for short swords that could make one look like a wakizashi.

Not that I have much of a horse in this race, sad to say.

[Scorpius]

Like I posted earlyer...

yes

this time I`ll be more relevent XD

the models are in game already and you get them like this ( I`ve checked and used each of those)

Nodachi = greatsword model
Wakizachi = shortsword
Katana = Katana and Longsword
Tento = Dagger
O-naginata = Halberd (and yes some modification from the Appearance kit but can be done)


also you are right about those skills that would fit better then oversized wpn... it should remain a on player selection as not everybody wants to be like the blade freak from kenshin
(Sawagejō Chō) https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ken ... 0114004301

if you want to remember who this is XD

also the STD wpn loadout was a Katana and a wakizachi...

BUT

you had also two handers who would prefer ONE BIG SWORD

Zanbato (this was the horse slayer) XD (tho this would be a nice addon !)
Odachi
Nodachi
O-Naginata (this one was used by the infentry to take down cavalry during wars before becoming a womens weapon later... but also lighter then the O-Naginata... Modern naginata are light for women use and were the defenders weapon when their husband were away from home but not at war)

I think being able to select a fighting style would be great

if you stay within the katana/wakizachi combo then you stay in stereotypes

[Svabodnik]

Thinking about it a bit more, it could maybe make more sense to make a samurai a 2H user rather than a 2WF variant, since the classic weapons of a samurai would be the yari (spear) or katana (only 1.5 damage on average below a greatsword, going two-handed). Technically, the daikyu (longbow) would also join the list, thought it doesn't make much sense for a MaA build.

[tankteddy]

This was a build of mine from a while back, with all the new fighting styles and updates, the build still works and can even get BETTER feats.

With Items on the server you can readjust stats, and lose Exotic weapon and just use Longsword models if you want.
http://nwn2db.com/build/?231891