Add Improved and Widen Aura of Despair?

[Sun Wukong]

The +4 AB is quite a lot to an EDM build, and EDM builds are exactly what the 'non-magical' Blackguards are.

The server has many custom changes that add that +4~ AB, but those bonuses are temporary and often limited in their use with requirements and conditions.

The -4 AC aura is like having +8 Great Strength/Wisdom/Dexterity feats. It is a massive power boost...

[Sun Wukong]

Anyhow, Blackguard 10 works well for a feint based characters such as Rogue 10/Blackguard 10/Ghost-Faced Killer 10 that gets a total of 11d6 sneak attack dice. The two Blackguard summons can be out at the same time, which makes it easier to get sneak attacks in by flanking. Then EDM will provide damage when sneak attacks no longer apply, while the charisma to your saves is a noticiable boost against most casters... etc.

If Blackguard is to lower AC with an aura... I think that aura should be temporary in its nature. For example... It could be called something like 'Wrath of the Blackguard' and it would be active in a similar fashion to Divine Champion's Divine Wrath, or consume Turn Undead uses.

[metaquad4]

Yeah, of course its a massive power boost. Taking more than 3-4 blackguard is crap right now, it would have to be a massive power boost to make it worthwhile. And -saves isn't really going to benefit your average fighter, who are probably the only ones who would go this far into blackguard.
(Barbarian might, but there are better routes for it. Like 10 Fighter, which would give the same benefit and more. Man at Arms is better sticking with 4 Blackguard, since those last 6 levels will lose a feat and more DCs than my proposal would make up for. As you suggested above, a gish could. But, there are better gish builds that can make it to CL 30 while retaining 25 BAB and getting better benefits.)

The -4 AC aura is like having +8 Great Strength/Wisdom/Dexterity feats. It is a massive power boost...

This is about as truthful as saying a -saves aura is like having +INT/CHA/WIS, having toughness is equivalent to a stacking +2 CON, or dodge is like having +2 DEX.

[Sun Wukong]

The -4 AC aura is like having +8 Great Strength/Wisdom/Dexterity feats. It is a massive power boost...

This is about as truthful as saying a -saves aura is like having +INT/CHA/WIS, having toughness is equivalent to a stacking +2 CON, or dodge is like having +2 DEX.

Regardless of whether you use strength, dexterity, or wisdom for AB, a constant -4 AC aura is just like having 8 respective respective Great Ability feats. It also circumvents the maximum AB cap of 20.

So how about we consider the typical non-magical EDM build that ends up at base 21 or 22 strength? With this -4 AC aura the AB of that build would sit right next to a pure strength build with the 30 strength, not to mention that it would also deal far more damage per hit due to the combination of 'strength modifier * 1.5' and 'charisma modifier * 2'.

With a constant -4 AC aura, what melee build would not have reason to go for Blackguard? As stated earlier, it grants Charisma modifier to your saves, it grants Turn Undead Progression and opens a path for Divine Might and Shield, it comes with two summons that can be out at the same time, with +3d6 Sneak Attack Dice to open up PRCs, and use Poison just for fun.

Anyhow, the -4 AC is not just a melee buff either, because it can also be used to boost ranged builds. EDM archers are already a thing on the server and this change will only make them stronger. In fact I imagine that those Bard 8/Shadowdancer 3/Arcane Archer 9/Blackguard 10 builds will be quite popular.

27 (BAB)
+ 5 (17 dexterity with +3 item)
+ 4 (Blackguard Aura that produces -4 AC.)
+ 5 (Enhance Arrow)
+ 3 (Inspire Courage with inspirational boost)
= 44

You have at least 44 AB with any mighty bow. And you can get higher AB as well.

And finally, do consider the possibility of an EDM Monk. A build such as Monk 20/Blackguard 10. At the moment you can make one and find some success... But with that -AC aura...

25 (BAB)
+ 7 (21 strength with +3 item)
+ 4 (Enchantment Gloves)
+ 1 (Weapon Focus Unarmed)
+ 1 (Epic Prowess)
+ 4 (Blackguard Aura that produces -4 AC.)
= 42

And how many of those highest BAB attacks an unarmed monk could get again? Wasn't it four? Don't forget to factor in the Expose Weakness AC debuff.


And finally, yes. Toughness feat basically gives the benefit of +2 constitution. Dodge feat is too unreliable outside 1v1.

And yes, -2 saves Auras are just like having 4 Great Ability feats scores in a respective primary casting ability score. It was the only reason why builds like Cleric 24/War Priest 3/Blackguard 3 were largely the only option for a divine based DC power build build. You lost two epic bonus feats, but gained a -3 to all saves aura. With spell DCs in mind, it was like having a net gain of +4 epic feats spent on Great Wisdom. The build options have been expanded since though, for example we have the Hierophant PRC.


So once again, having constant -4 AC aura is a colossal power boost to a PRC that already gives quite much. If implemented it needs to be limited in some manner. Divine Champion's Divine Wrath comes with a timer. Orc War Drummer's sSimilar ability has a save for reduced effect. Or perhaps it should just consume uses of Turn Undead, which in turn also reduces how many times EDM can be used per rest.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Agreeing with the BG10 assignment, with a save requisite.

[Infernal Dave]

I hope this is a semi-appropriate place to plug in this question. I'm pretty rusty on my mechanics knowledge since I've been gone for two years, and I was recently toying around with ideas for a full RWoT/TK party synergy while trying to catch up on all the changes that have been made since my absence. Does the AoD saving throw debuff stack if there are multiple BGs in the party?

[Valefort]

No

[RaiderOne]

There are several PRCs that never get taken to 10, and I do think some of these need some more love to encourage people to do that. Throwing a bonus feat to blackguard 8/9 still isnt enough when all this classes power is front loaded, but neither is stretching its existing abilities out. Could the blackguard aura be made to scale with more blackguard levels?

[RaiderOne]

Actually can we have paladins of other alignments and throw blackguard under a bus?

[Valefort]

Nope.