Red Wizards

[Zkenic]

Real short and to the point, are they still active?

I am tempted to make one, but at the same time I feel like they might not be well liked and would rather not play a lone wolf wizard.

[Infernal Dave]

Hello! Quite a coincidence, I was planning on writing up a post on this very topic. We are currently very active, with several Red Wizards and Thayan Knights on throughout the day. If you're thinking of rolling one up, feel free to PM me (I'm the guild leader btw) and we can talk about it and answer any questions you have. We also have roles in the guild for other classes, so anybody else reading this - if you'd like to try your hand at the challenging but very rewarding standard of RP we push for then hit me up

[Oldmanodin]

Real short and to the point, are they still active?

I am tempted to make one, but at the same time I feel like they might not be well liked and would rather not play a lone wolf wizard.

I would note that you do not need to go through the guild as long as you present your case and knowledge to the DMs. If you're not a fan of guilds that can often be cumber-sum to some players.

[mrm3ntalist]

Real short and to the point, are they still active?

I am tempted to make one, but at the same time I feel like they might not be well liked and would rather not play a lone wolf wizard.

I would note that you do not need to go through the guild as long as you present your case and knowledge to the DMs. If you're not a fan of guilds that can often be cumber-sum to some players.

I would also note, that this route can cause a lot of problems. You are going to RP a red wizard and your actions, whether it is just RP or you joining an event - are going to affect the red wizards guild/reputation.

So other than all other kind of issues, the above can cause many problems in the long run. I hope the dms never allow such a thing.

[thids]

@mrm

It is allowed due to the Red Wizard and Thayan Knight classes being application only. I know all too well what kind of issues that causes, especially with certain lore based guilds on the server, however leaving the final word on class application approvals to a group of players isn't ideal either.


That all said, Zkenic opened this very thread because he doesn't want to RP a lone wolf red wizard, so I am not sure what was the point that the poster above you wanted to make.

[Oldmanodin]

Real short and to the point, are they still active?

I am tempted to make one, but at the same time I feel like they might not be well liked and would rather not play a lone wolf wizard.

I would note that you do not need to go through the guild as long as you present your case and knowledge to the DMs. If you're not a fan of guilds that can often be cumber-sum to some players.

I would also note, that this route can cause a lot of problems. You are going to RP a red wizard and your actions, whether it is just RP or you joining an event - are going to affect the red wizards guild/reputation.

So other than all other kind of issues, the above can cause many problems in the long run. I hope the dms never allow such a thing.

Or vice versa any guild can cause trouble for you any time and damage your reputation. In fact it's often the case that Draconian polices and rp will inhibit your ability to RP inside the guild or if you're not part of it.

The Thayan guild has a very Bad reputation from trying to lay siege to Candle Keep in this PW and many other out right bungled evil schemes. It makes it very difficult to play a subtle Thayan in the vain of the books. Where they're not always openly evil.

It's important to also note that at this time the Enclaves don't exist at large and Thay with the exception of one in BG for some reason. The Red Wizards have not taken steps to present a positive front and become a trade empire. Rather that the conquering expansionist camp of the Red Wizards holds power. This is Pre Transmutation school gaining power over the other Zulkirs. . And way before they all turn undead and the Necromancy school wins out in the book Unclean.

So you will be working with a lot of back logged PW hostility that will reflect on your person, as a player it is very very difficult to play a Thayan In the vain of the books/campaign setting.

It's very different than it's presented in the novels or in the campaign guides. The Thayans here seemingly are openly chaotic evil. Rather than trying to encourage trade. Tho I have not played for some time. Playing in the guild could be rewarding. Being independent of them will give you more options to choose from. To Forge your own narrative.

That's why I strongly recommend not joining a guild as a player as the Application does not require you to be part of a guild. you have much more freedom as a player to make decisions for yourself. Tho it arguably takes a lot more work to establish positive rp experiences outside of the guild given there extensive back story here on the PW and evil actions. But it's well worth the trek to go it alone. Simply for Independence, the guild may respond negatively to you however and try to undermine you constantly. But that's the price you pay for independence. And generates great rp you could easily play a character from the Transmutation school or the non expansionist camp of Red Wizards such as enchanting school. And be openly opposed to the actions of the exapansionist camp of Red Wizards. You will have many opportunistic to foil the guild, make enemies and forge Interesting and unique rp.. Tho they may try to openly kill you. I suggest playing with a friend just encase.

If you go with a Thayan I suggest a lawful evil NPC you may have better luck navigating the server being able to negotiate through hostility, you will probably encounter.
it's very rewarding to play a Thayan that's independent of the local guild. And I strongly recommend this route if you're not comfortable taking draconian orders, and don't want a guild leader micro managing your every action.

Be mindful of getting approval before I think level 5 if you like I have a bunch of content on everything to do with Thay so feel free to PM me. And if you wish to go the route of independence I have advice on how to navigate the hostility, you will will encounter regardless if you're in our out of the guild. It's very very difficult as people will try to kill you for just being Thayan. Like I said it goes both ways the guild will try to undermine any independent.

"So other than all other kind of issues, the above can cause many problems in the long run" That' seems like a great opportunity to generate some interesting rp. I wouldn't bother heeding this advice. The guild gets along fine weather your in it or out of it. You won't cause problems but they will cause problems for you if you're in or out.

It's a thayan guild after all. And I'm very grateful the Dms included the clause to be independent. I personally could not stand being in a guild any guild. They don't sit well with me.

[DM Boo]

Please keep this thread on-track, or take it to PM's.

[Oldmanodin]

@mrm

It is allowed due to the Red Wizard and Thayan Knight classes being application only. I know all too well what kind of issues that causes, especially with certain lore based guilds on the server, however leaving the final word on class application approvals to a group of players isn't ideal either.


That all said, Zkenic opened this very thread because he doesn't want to RP a lone wolf red wizard, so I am not sure what was the point that the poster above you wanted to make.

The point was that there' may be other Thayans outside of a guild That you can RP with. Sincerely if you're interested in roleplaying.

That joining a draconian guild isn't required to find other Thayans to RP with. And that you're likely to find great rp outside of the guilds in general or in them.

To keep on topic on track.

[Steve]

At this point in the FR Timeline, it is the Red Wizards of Thay, NOT the Red Wizards, which are a 4th Edition post-Spellplague group. Read up.

At this point in the Timeline, the RWoT are DEFINED by their allegiance to a singular, strong organization that is embodied by Enclaves, and thus reflected by the particular Guild in Baldur's Gate on this Server.

There just simply are NO "rogue" RWoT that operate outside this organization, this Forgotten Realms Canon Lore-based concept. And if there were rogue RWoT, just like with he Zhentarim, they should be expected to be hunted down and slain in the most painful and permanent way possible.

It's called being a Traitor, and traitors to a Lawful Evil aligned organization should expect ZERO MERCY for that kind of transgression!

Now, that said, there are many ways one could play a Thayan that is not a RWoT. For example, a Cleric, a Monk, a soldier-slave, etc. even a merchant-Mage...but NOT a RWoT without being IN the organization, which means the Guild as it exists on BGTSCC.

This fact is also why it makes it more challenging than anything else, to be in a Guild such as RWoT or the Zhentarim, because you are in a sense "kept" inside a concept that is far stricter than the general Adventurer Class RP, or the general goodly Character.

But perhaps THAT is also the reward, from the RP—the enjoyment of that challenge and the pride of being able to generate/uphold that RP.

So please, for the love of Ao, let's all work together to NOT water down Role-play, Edie ially when it contradicts the Canon Lore of the Forgotten Realms.

GO TEAM RED!!!

[Oldmanodin]

At this point in the FR Timeline, it is the Red Wizards of Thay, NOT the Red Wizards, which are a 4th Edition post-Spellplague group. Read up.

At this point in the Timeline, the RWoT are DEFINED by their allegiance to a singular, strong organization that is embodied by Enclaves, and thus reflected by the particular Guild in Baldur's Gate on this Server.

There just simply are NO "rogue" RWoT that operate outside this organization, this Forgotten Realms Canon Lore-based concept. And if there were rogue RWoT, just like with he Zhentarim, they should be expected to be hunted down and slain in the most painful and permanent way possible.

It's called being a Traitor, and traitors to a Lawful Evil aligned organization should expect ZERO MERCY for that kind of transgression!

Now, that said, there are many ways one could play a Thayan that is not a RWoT. For example, a Cleric, a Monk, a soldier-slave, etc. even a merchant-Mage...but NOT a RWoT without being IN the organization, which means the Guild as it exists on BGTSCC.

This fact is also why it makes it more challenging than anything else, to be in a Guild such as RWoT or the Zhentarim, because you are in a sense "kept" inside a concept that is far stricter than the general Adventurer Class RP, or the general goodly Character.

But perhaps THAT is also the reward, from the RP—the enjoyment of that challenge and the pride of being able to generate/uphold that RP.

So please, for the love of Ao, let's all work together to NOT water down Role-play, Edie ially when it contradicts the Canon Lore of the Forgotten Realms.

GO TEAM RED!!!

Lol traitor sure cool story bro. Tho not accurate. You aren't required to be part of the guild Each school of magic has an independent zulkir that operates each faction inside Thay. That give independent orders to the wizard under there command. The guild locally will can pretend to act as an all consuming authority but that's ooc and has nothing to with the lore. Any idepent still serves thier zulkir and isn't a traitor. The guild has limited say or justification in Huntington down the different faction of red wizards. Litterally you're not a traitor and you take your orders from higher ups that the kazark. Of the enclave / guild. They may see you as a traitor ooc but that's litterally the players taking things to far and as mentioned before draconian.

The lore and PW of the server speaks otherwise as I have played a non guild Thayan. Lol. You're not required to be in the guild. And after the above message who would want to? And they can't touch you because you're still part of Thay. Well not entirely true red wizards kill each other all the time for ambition.

So yes there's potential to meet other red wizards outside of the guild no they're not traitors as per PW lore. And they can only badger you ooc about it. Which they will and bring that IC.

Or make up ridiculous amounts of Metagame lies and pretending to undermine your independent PC. Regardless of DM approved back story.

Lol. Basically the above message false . And is why you really don't want to part of any guild. They start to become controlling ooc. Why would anyone subject yourself to that?

Lol traitor sure. Lol.

Unless you're specific zulkir or kazark gives you an order from a DM the guild has no say in your actions as a non guild player you deal strictly with DMs. They have no authority over you. Which will make them furrious call you an imposter meta game and undermine your PC in numerous petty ways that have nothing to do with your story or back story or the PW story of the server.

They have no right to behave in such ways. It counters DM approved PW lore. And DMs have as they the final say.

I would agree this thread should probably be closed before people get heated.

You're not required to be part of the guild it doesn't make you a traitor they're not the country of Thay and theyay whine about it ooc And abuse you IC ignorant of the DMs rules but you can still play your PC red Wizard outside of the guild and approved by DMs.

Please close this thread I don't see it going anywhere.

Also on a side note hundred of years have passed on the server already the 4th Ed book destroys Thay. Entirely I have the book And novels. If it's true that we're already post spell plauge all of your PC's would be dead there' would be no enclave hundreds of years would have passed and necromancy isn't permitted on the coast. So bone of that makes sense. As the necromancy faction is the only faction during the spell plague. It's in the book unclean by Richard Lee Byers The haunted lands and further published in Dead in Thay. So again the only faction during the spell plague is necromancers. Under Szass Tam. As all other zulkirs died.

Also every NPC and PC would be dead save for the elves.

Which makes no sense.

[Hammer_Song]

Or .... you could roll a RW, work together with other Thayans in the guild to create awesome stories and have heaps of fun. Guilds shouldn’t be dictatorships OOC and in my 10 years on this server I’ve never seen one that was. People that meet unhappy situations IG usually do so due to an amount of inflexibility on one or both sides of their RP. Be flexible in what you want out of the game and have fun!

[Oldmanodin]

Or .... you could roll a RW, work together with other Thayans in the guild to create awesome stories and have heaps of fun. Guilds shouldn’t be dictatorships OOC and in my 10 years on this server I’ve never seen one that was. People that meet unhappy situations IG usually do so due to an amount of inflexibility on one or both sides of their RP. Be flexible in what you want out of the game and have fun!

That would be great if the guild was conducted it's self ooc in a mature way. And didn't carry that ic.

It's not as if overtures Haven't been made to do so. You're also not assured that you're welcome in a guild as your guild leaders have made very clear.

It would be nice to rp with them but the guild has acted hostile to independent players IC and ooc.

Olive Branch after olive branch turned away in some cases out right refusing rp. They will out right refuse to play with you if you're not under strict control by the leader of the guild. As I've seen first hand no matter the amount of effort roleplaying or apologies or respect offered. They just won't do it.

[Hammer_Song]

Or .... you could roll a RW, work together with other Thayans in the guild to create awesome stories and have heaps of fun. Guilds shouldn’t be dictatorships OOC and in my 10 years on this server I’ve never seen one that was. People that meet unhappy situations IG usually do so due to an amount of inflexibility on one or both sides of their RP. Be flexible in what you want out of the game and have fun!

That would be great if the guild was conducted it's self ooc in a mature way. And didn't carry that ic.

It's not as if overtures Haven't been made to do so. You're also not assured that you're welcome in a guild as your guild leaders have made very clear.

It would be nice to rp with them but the guild has acted hostile to independent players IC and ooc.

Olive Branch after olive branch turned away in some cases out right refusing rp.

Sorry for the confusion, my post was directed at the OP. Obviously I can’t speak for your experiences. I’ve known a few RW guild members and they all seemed exemplary RP’ers and people OOC. Have you maybe had a look at your OOC habits that might be annoying this long-standing guild? Don’t take this as an attack, it isn’t, just advice.

[Oldmanodin]

Or .... you could roll a RW, work together with other Thayans in the guild to create awesome stories and have heaps of fun. Guilds shouldn’t be dictatorships OOC and in my 10 years on this server I’ve never seen one that was. People that meet unhappy situations IG usually do so due to an amount of inflexibility on one or both sides of their RP. Be flexible in what you want out of the game and have fun!

That would be great if the guild was conducted it's self ooc in a mature way. And didn't carry that ic.

It's not as if overtures Haven't been made to do so. You're also not assured that you're welcome in a guild as your guild leaders have made very clear.

It would be nice to rp with them but the guild has acted hostile to independent players IC and ooc.

Olive Branch after olive branch turned away in some cases out right refusing rp.

Sorry for the confusion, my post was directed at the OP. Obviously I can’t speak for your experiences. I’ve known a few RW guild members and they all seemed exemplary RP’ers and people OOC. Have you maybe had a look at your OOC habits that might be annoying this long-standing guild? Don’t take this as an attack, it isn’t, just advice.

Lol you only need to look at the comment about a traitor.. above. Your leadership isn't open to all players or welcoming especially as a DM approved independent well formally. And yes I would agree that there's many fine roleplayers in the guild save for the leadership. That are willing ooc and IC to be outstanding individuals.

I haven't played for over half a year but I distinctly remember having through the wringer being independent. If I ever play again I assure you the experience has ensured I will never join any guild. And I would agree that some guild members are fun to roleplay with.

But not the case from your leadership. As I was myself banned from being in the guild over an argument with leadership. Saying that I must be psrt of the guild. So I got DM approval, and your leadership lost thier minds. Lol Not only that but that ooc abuse was carried IC Lol despite having a DM approved back story and outside of the guild. You're leadership is very difficult to take seriously this comes from a so called "imposter" lol.

I probably won't play a red wizard again to ensure that your leadership can't meta game ooc their frustration and take it IC.

But again great rp from some of the other DM approved red wizards I've met.

If you're suggesting that it's my ooc behavior lol sure not capitulating to a dictator isn't bad behaviour it's actually the right course of action.

But I'm just an "imposter" lol . I'm sure you personally are a great individual as are others in the guild but try going independent your leaderships head will explode.

[Infernal Dave]

*ahem* I am the guild leader, OOCly and ICly, and I've never once spoken to you prior to right now. I've been involved with the guild in varying capacities since early 2011, and just about everything you've written concerning the past and present of the guild is either off or outright wrong. The only thing I can't speak to is the last year, because I was on a break from the server and not playing - this seems to be when you encountered the guild, and seem to have had a bad time of it. Sorry for that, but you should know that everybody from that time period are no longer affiliated with the guild, and we have considerably more history going back years and years to the very beginning of the server with a tremendous amount of merchant and political themed, very deep RP. We're not conquerors laying siege to towns, we're not Chaotic Stupid, and we're not at all as you have characterized us here. If that was your impression of the guild at the time of your interaction - ok, again I can't speak to that particular point in time. But I can speak to everything before it and everything now, and nothing you said is true with respects to then and now.