Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2019)

[VDub]

Animations are specific to skeletons, and those are gender specific themselves.
I'm only beginning to grasp what's called animation retargeting, which allows me to make the same animation for every race,

Anyway I doubt I'll revisit these, and instead focus on entirely new content.

When will girls get staffpose and sworddown? XD

I'm pretty sure Chambo said that they won't. Or probably won't as he would rather work on new content than revisit these again.

[SyntheticRose]

Then it makes me sad that the only thing we got was the sexist cleaning animation XD

[SyntheticRose]

The fact that you didn't make it doesn't invalidate my sadness, it only means it's not your fault XD

[VDub]

AWWWWWW! We love you Chambo! Thanks for everything you do!

[Max Hatchet]

I don’t this thing about ‘female model scrubbing floors’ should be dismissed

At best it’s a silly joke and to claim otherwise is disingenuous

[Maecius]

It was an animation that was created several years ago to make Ulgoth's Beard a uniquely detailed destination when it was originally released. The developer who made that particular location poured a lot of his efforts into it. For a long time, you could only fish at Ulgoth's Beard, etc.

Are people upset that the pose is being made available to players? Or is it just a case that we'd prefer even more (and perhaps more empowering) animations?

I mean, would we rather it not be available to players at all ... ?

Currently, Chambordini is the only staff member actively working on animations. He included this one because it was low-hanging fruit (since it already existed, it was something he could easily give players without a lot of extra work on his end). I know he has several other female skeleton based animations in the works as well. I'm positive that it was not his or the original developer's intent to offend or upset anyone: Just to allow for a more immersive world, with a greater variety of animations and poses for enhancing roleplay.

[wangxiuming]

I hesitate to speak for anyone else, but it does look a bit odd when male skeletons get a bunch of cool poses, and the female human skeleton is reduced to scrubbing floors. That said, I have no doubt that there was no malicious intent behind this - if I had to guess, chambo was probably just working on what struck his fancy at the time and rolled everything out as is.

I'm relatively sure that there would be no issue with the assurance that female models will get some cool, empowering poses as well.

Love the work so far, by the way! The new animations are awesome. Can't wait to see what comes next.

[Max Hatchet]

I mean, would we rather it not be available to players at all ... ?

Yes. It would have been better if you had not made this animation available.

I find it very very hard to believe that you guys cannot see why it’s not at best silly and at worst problematic. I think it’s pretty odd that you won’t even admit that it’s a silly joke at least.

Community standards and sensitivity need to be supported and maintained.

[VDub]

Don't mind me...just testing a theory... *Looks around for a forum moderator and runs away*

[kitteninablender]

I'm just waiting for "Headbang" and "Groinkick" animations.

For groinkick there needs to be both a "Kicker" and "Kickee" animation. One guy basically kicks a field goal. The other grabs his junk and falls on his side...

Make it so, Chambordini.

[SyntheticRose]

It probably should have been delayed until all of the animations in question were available for all characters. As it stands now, what this situation says, even if it wasn't the intent?

Code: Select all

"Here at BGTSCC, we, the staff, believe that women scrub floors while men fight wars."

That is what you have actually said with this patch. The image you've put forth. Am I not welcome here because I'm a woman?

[Maecius]

I do understand the reasons behind the complaint, Max. SyntheticRose openly stated the concern, and you heavily alluded to it. I recognize that the accusation is that the animation is sexist or demeaning: I'm assuming by its implying, to those who unhappily see it this way, that domestic chores are the purview of women.

I'm acknowledging the concern, and I can see why it might be there. In my opinion, it's absolutely appropriate to express concern over such things if one does, in earnest, believe that the intent was to make fun of people. But I'm also stating, unequivocally, that this was not the intent of this content.

Animating models is a lot of work. It requires that you have access to specific software, the motivation to learn how to use it, and then the time and the inclination to utilize it for free on behalf of this community. Computer graphics modelling and animation work is not something we have a lot of volunteers doing for us right now, and those who are, like Chambordini, are sharing their skillset with us as much as they are able:

The approach we take as a design team, however, is to push out content incrementally. Basically, "whenever it's ready." The alternative system would be to release "complete content sets," such as a complete set of a dozen animations for every race and sex -- but that results in significant download sizes, large delays in-between meaningful content updates, and developer burnout. Remember: The primary payoff devs actually get for the jobs that they do is from seeing their work go in game and watching people get excited over it.

It's that last understanding that allows me to say, with a great deal of confidence, that this content was meant to make people happy, not unhappy. Chambordini is doing something for the server that we haven't seen done in years -- releasing new animations to make the game more immersive. Animations and other player emotes and controls can allow for more evocative or expressive roleplaying.

I'm very saddened that you both took offense to the content, of course. And I genuinely hope that you're in the minority here: But I'll use this opportunity to apologize to anyone else who felt, implied or otherwise, that this was meant as some sort of joke at the expense of our player base. I feel I know Chambordini, and the background behind this animation, well enough to say, in no uncertain terms, that it was not.

Even knowing that the content has caused some offense, though, I wouldn't feel right removing this content from player hands. I want players to have as many tools as we can possibly give them to tell their stories. The only content I tend to OK for removal is content that creates server imbalances or is open to exploits. There's just a limit to what we can do in a given week, month, or year, I suppose. Hopefully Chambordini will develop some neat new animations, now that he's learning how to do this. And although I'm sure this controversy isn't exactly the response he was hoping for, as he learns and shares with us a new skill he's developing, hopefully people will enjoy these new animations enough to encourage him to develop more. Even, maybe make requests for the content you would like to see?

I feel that would be the most productive path forward for everyone -- if the idea is, ultimately, to see more content and more options for all players.

[SyntheticRose]

I don't want any animations removed, I want them equalized between character sexes. >_>

"Hopefully" isn't really very encouraging. The work was put in to make this half of it -- why is the other half of the work being so staunchly refused?

[Maecius]

I understand. But "hopefully" is all that I can offer right now. Chambordini is the only one here who knows how to create this content, and I'm not going to speak on his behalf or tell him what to do. The staff, like the players, are only here because they want to be here. None of them actually owe me (or the players, for that matter) anything but professional conduct and courtesy.

I mean, I certainly don't pay them for their work. Shoot, even running this place costs me hundreds of dollars a year whenever tax time rolls around. It's not a profit-making enterprise for any of us.

I also wouldn't say that the work is being "staunchly refused." I'm sure everyone would love to see more animations. I just don't know how excited Chambordini will be about spending hours of his free time making them after reading this thread, I guess?

[Bobthehero]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but that anim was implemented a while ago for one particular NPC (who is a female human) and was made available to use with the >A command. Chambo already said he most likely won't revisit those anims, which means all the races that aren't human male won't get staffpose/sworddown, non orc (male) don't get cutthroat and all non human female won't have scrubfloor. Its consistent, even if the anims aren't as cool for one side as they are for the other.