Spying With Shadow Simulacrum

[predrag]

One of my characters got what seemed like a randomly cast Shadow Simulacrum on them than I was told it can be used to see the stats of your character .

So I'm curious now , is this allowed ?

Is it considered a hostile action ?

How far can one see with it , as I never played a wizard on this server I have no clue , can you see the character's class choices , alignments , gear ?

Is what you see considered IC knowledge , as the previously mentioned character using it was acting like it was ?

[Korchas]

You can see the class choices and alignment for sure, but I rarely used the spell for such matters.

I think taking any info you receive from stat-blocks as IC is... off, but I also recall at least one case where someone took Shadow Simulacrum on himself as a PvP reason. It's a weird situation.

[Deathgrowl]

To RP knowing the stats on the sheet is generally considered metagaming.

[Theodore01]

Isn't it the same with the blood vision spell ?

Had that happen once on my toon - and as i asked the player about it, he said he just wanted to know my build............

It has nothing to do with IC/OC behavior - it just sucks.


Why not alter these spells - so that they just show something general and not the whole char. sheet ?

[izzul]

Shadow Sim is a touch spell.

in order for someone to shadow sim you, he must touch you first IC because it is a touch spell.

for me, if someone is touching me without my consent, i will mark the PC as hostile and give a warning or consider it as consent to PVP.

[Glowfire]

The character sheet isn't IC knowledge. That's like saying a PC would know how much AB another PC has, ICly, and somehow know their deity and whatever else. Pretty appalling if someone Shadow Sims a character for the sole purpose of looking at their sheet. If that happened to me I'd screenshot and report that to the DMs. There's no way I'd acknowledge it as ICly gained info and if someone did it OOCly, I'd consider it a breach of trust.

To answer a question; it shows the same things as you'd see on your own character sheet.


People do use Shadow Sim for legit reasons as some builds are pretty powerful to copy and use in a boss fight/DM event.

Subject: PVP Rules and Guidelines (MUST READ)

- Certain actions can indicate hostile intent and a valid consent to PvP. This includes casting spells, drawing weapons, resting, or using stealth mode (such as Hide in Plain Sight) during hostilities; or pickpocketing or performing a suspicious action towards another character. To prevent this, do not do these actions at all, or clearly and truthfully indicate that the action is done for non-hostile purposes (such as leaving the area).

Echoing izzul, with the addition of that a Shadow Sim can be turned against whoever it was copied. Different category altogether than say, a heal spell.

[Deathgrowl]

And it's just bad OOC form. You suddenly get to know the details about another character and that will change how you act towards them if they are lying about who they are. Lets say there's an evil infiltrator in a good guild, for example. Then you find out by shadowsimming them. Even if you don't intend to metagame the knowledge, it is going to be there. And some will certainly use shadowsim for exactly this kind of thing. And then they will act differently, metagaming the alignment in ways that is very hard to prove is metagaming (because you can always just claim innocent coinsidence that you happened to be in a place at the right time or that your character has always had a suspicion).

So don't do it without IC (and/or OOC consent).

On the other hand, if it's done in a PvP situation, I don't see a problem. I'd totally make a WM/FB kill themselves. Effectively.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

Looking at the sheet is ooc.

Not wanting the spell cast on you because of this is also ooc.

I wish it could be changed. Nobody needs to see a character sheet. Nobody should fear a spell for its potential to out them.

[cosmic ray]

Would casting Shadow Simulacrum on a player who is AFK and has the AFK hat on be considered improper behaviour? Is it against the rules?

[chad878262]

Would casting Shadow Simulacrum on a player who is AFK and has the AFK hat on be considered improper behaviour? Is it against the rules?

while not explicitly stated it would still be against the rules because AFK is supposed to be treated as that PC not even being there. If the PC is not there how would your PC touch them in order to cast Shadow Simulacrum? Thus you would be metagaming to shadowsim their PC who is not supposed to be treated as being there since the player is not behind the screen to react to any interaction, including casting a spell and touching them.

[Maecius]

Technically, the first rule of the server is to be respectful. This includes respecting the time, wishes, and privacy of other players.

I can't imagine anyone would enjoy having another player abuse game mechanics to gain some advantage over them or insight into their character's core traits. We have actually banned people who took it to the level of trying to log into accounts that do not belong to them (we can see when people attempt to do this, so don't). It's also the reason using "smite evil" as an "alignment test" is an RP no go, too.

In general, if you'd be annoyed if someone did it to you, particularly without asking, maybe take the hint and don't do it to someone else?

[Fury_US]

It's a spell that can be used with devastating effectiveness in major boss fights/ PVP situations, but I concur that the fact it is handing over the entire character sheet of a character is just constantly abused- to the point that I think the vast majority of the spell's usage comes quite simply from desire to know someone else's build, with some form of half-arsed "rp reason" for casting it. I am familiar with a situation where the use of the spell resulted in metagamed information gained, and that information used against the player who had the spell cast on them- which resulted in DM action. Not saying the DM action wasn't warranted, but the way it all came about was some of the crappiest underhanded stuff I've seen players pull.

Frankly, if a spell can be abused OOCly? It probably will be. Something that hands over an entire character sheet should honesty be changed.

[cosmic ray]

I asked that question because earlier this week there was some guy running around Sshamath casting Shadow Simulacrum, and I noticed he had done it to me while I was AFK.

It didn't bring about the end of the world, but I didn't like the attitude at all and I even took a screenshot, just in case that player went on to become a bigger annoyance.

[chad878262]

yeah that is poor form by that player and probably should be reported so that at a minimum the DMs can notify them to maybe not do that anymore...

[Bobthehero]

What if your Blackguard gets Shadow'd and the shadow summons the BG skeleton? I pinned the blame on the one who created the simulacrum, but could it be used to gain knowledge that way?