Surfacefolk to Underdark Relations

[Tekill]

I am in the process of rolling a Gray Orc surfacer (amoung my 3 other active alts).
I will follow up on the rules pertaining to Gray Orcs and the related RP.
But, without meta gaming too much Im plannin to play this orc as trying to integrate with surfacers.
This thread kind of gave a glimpse of what Im going to be facing. I think it will be a very very difficult challenge. So I am pretty excited to see what happens. Although, cynically I have the feeling I will be shamed or ignored as some sort of snow flake. But who knows, right?!
It does look like there will be an ever present PVP threat. Thats fine, I have a fairly think skin- which will have to grow much thicker with this toon.

If anyone else likes my idea and wants to do the same by rolling a Gray Orc. Send me a PM and we can perhaps work together somehow.

I will take any advice on how to proceed as well.

[Max Hatchet]

I think the intolerance and hostility of drow is often overplayed

Sshamath is particularly tolerant, relatively

THERE ARE 3000 FREE HUMANS LIVING IN SSHAMATH

THERE ARE 500 FREE SURFACE ELVES LIVING IN SSHAMATH

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=78

[Ravial]

Yeah. For some bizarre reason that makes literally little to no sense setting-wise. But here we go, server lore to our rescue in order to confuse everyone even more.

Even then, the place is thoroughly evil-aligned, as are its denizens. Anyone who makes deals with drow is, in the vast majority of cases, evil-aligned themselves.

If we consider those people living there as being a legit thing, then it's almost assured they're nothing even remotely resembling anything humans and elves actually stand for on the surface world, since they have to consensually live among and around blatant evil-doing that the drow societies, even Sshamath, is filled with.

In other words, they themselves will be evil and most likely considered traitors by other people. Maybe except Calishites and Zhents. Those like making deals with drow- but then again. Evil.

[Max Hatchet]

The darthiir thing seems strange but pretty much all drow cities have a population of free humans

[Snarfy]

But, without meta gaming too much Im plannin to play this orc as trying to integrate with surfacers.
This thread kind of gave a glimpse of what Im going to be facing. I think it will be a very very difficult challenge. So I am pretty excited to see what happens. Although, cynically I have the feeling I will be shamed or ignored as some sort of snow flake. But who knows, right?!

~snip~

I will take any advice on how to proceed as well.

My simple advice is this:
OOC'ly speaking:
1. Let go of any expectations you may or may not have for successfully integrating your orc into surface society.
2. Respect the fact that many (role)players will likely not abandon their character concepts, or the setting, just to accommodate your desire to play an orc who wants to integrate(... whatever "integrate" may mean).
3. Respect the setting.

As for your orc(and perhaps even you, as a player) being shamed/ignored, yeah... one or the other is pretty much a given. I have 4 or 5 surface toons I play and not a single one of them has ever been accommodating to a grey orc(or a drow). Since a few of those characters are more likely to outright kill an orc(or drow) upon sight(which never goes over well with PvP rules), the most accommodating thing I've learned to do, even though it can be immersion breaking as hell, is simply avoid any RP involving said orcs(or drow).

[Balthomer]

Drow are hated by surface, this is common in setting, but some people just dont like to be rude/racist (even when in character) to avoid being mean, and since this is medium rp server, almost anything goes.

Orcs same deal, though I seen people who go as far as playing unmasked gray orcs running around eastern farmlands like nothing....Its the way it is on a big server likw this one.

Just my opinion.


Also, free elves and humans in S'shamath are almost always mages, and S'shamath majority in religion is still lolthite.

Have to agree with Ravial in all points, UD is serious busines, but if people want to pretend you can safely go pick mushrooms there its totally fine.

[Max Hatchet]

Also, free elves and humans in S'shamath are almost always mages, and S'shamath majority in religion is still lolthite.

3000 human mages out of a total free population of 50,000 sounds nonsensical and odd. I don’t see what 3,000 can be doing. If half of them were mages and half of them were other things it would be more believable

There are 38,000 drow living in Sshamath. How many of that 38,000 are mages? 10%? 20%? 30%? 50%? 19,000 of the population are Male drow?

What percentage of those mages are Male drow? 70%? 80%?
How many of those males are native?
How many of those males are citizens?
How many are just commoners?

The numbers need to look reasonably believable

I’m not sure what the TOTAL number of male wizards there are in all the schools?

What percentage of the male drow in the city are members of schools? 30%? 80%?




PS: what are the 80%(?) of the non wizard 19,000 female drow doing in the city? Waitressing?

PPS: who fills the positions of drow guards and soldiers? Males? Females?

[Steve]

Just consider every existing Sshamath NPC as one thousand "of a type."

All fixed.

Which, btw, is why our Characters never stand a chance against NPC forces...but mobs, on the other hand, Ao's Uber Divine Factory can barely churn out enough fodder to keep up with the orders!

Nonetheless:
A) numbers are relative and always subject to change (it seems).
B) Lore Book statistics are most often considered OOC and thus, what we have to RP with is what our PCs can/only can experience IC and IG.

Exception being to when DMs declare differently. But also fluctuates, depending on the roster.

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

Since when blind hostility to characters of other races = heavy RP?

[Steve]

Because "those" Races will in 99.9999 out of 100 simply KILL/BRUTALIZE/ENSLAVE any other Race.

This isn't a randomly concocted subjective interpretation, This Is Canon Lore.

Luckily, this Server is kind enough to let players enact their .1111% Drizzt fantasy. But as well, there are going to be the Far Majority that have every Canon Right to play their Character to absolute hostility (especially that it is so very, very warranted).

The real tragedy here is that there is little successful room for a Race-similar RP experience (Orcs with Orcs; Drow with Drow PCs) that anywhere near equals the Player Experience when playing any random Neutral Good Human. It "should" be different, but umpteen attempts have always ended in the same abrupt failure because of lack of interest, or lack of understanding, or simply loneliness (we have come to play here TOGETHER, right?!?).

So remember: TOLERANCE IS TREASON!!

[Deathgrowl]

Since when blind hostility to characters of other races = heavy RP?

Elven communities - and elven individuals - are described almost everywhere in lore to be "blindly" hostile towards orcs. And vice versa! Orcs are, in fact, blindly hostile towards practically anything non-orc, and sometimes even other orcs.

The same happens with elves and drow, dwarves and duergar - again, in both directions, although perhaps to veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery tiny lesser extent.

Elves of the Eldreth Veluuthra are blindly hostile towards anything non-elven. They're admittedly relatively few in number and evil - and therefore not accepted by the other elven communities. Nor do they have the support of the Seldarine, though they delusionally think that Corellon will give them their favour.

Almost all human societies are "blindly" hostile towards orcs, goblinoids, lizardfolk, kobolds, ogres and other evil giant-kin (not that the good-aligned Cloud, Fog and Storm Giants often get into contact with humans like that).

Dwarves hate giantkin, orcs and goblinoids with a furious passion, as is even reflected in their mechanical stats (Battle training vs Giants and Battle training vs orcs and goblinoids).

Gnomes are similar to dwarves in that towards giants and goblinoids, as well as kobolds.

Virtually all humans, dwarves, elves, gnomes, halflings - you name it - living in neutral-to-good aligned areas (like along the Sword Coast) are "blindly" hostile towards chromatic dragons - if they are educated enough to make that distinction - and thus also towards the corresponding half dragons. They maybe too afraid or wise enough not to attack the dragon, though.

So. Is it "heavier" to RP a character that acts at least somewhat in line with what is the racial (or in the case of humans, geographical) norm, or is it "heavier" RP to play a character that has no resemblance to the norms at all (indeed sometimes counter to what the races are described to have as physiological traits, not just psychological)?

And just to make clear: I am someone who is opposed to Kill-on-Sight rules in almost every case (but will act according to them while they are in effect). I am also sort of against the RP out rules as they currently stand, though. But that is a conversation for another topic - or several, that we've had repeatedly over the years.

[DM Theophanies]

For clarification, with regards to humans in Sshamath, it is likely visiting merchants from the Zhentarim, Thay, Luskan Brotherhood, etc. This is spelled out specifically in Underdark and Drizzts Guide sources. Its likely to account for guards, minions, etc. Our numbers are a little inflated comparatively though.

As for all the drow, Sshamath is trade and magic, which requires an economy and infrastructure to support. Mining and farming reagents are likely strong economic drivers and what the commoners will be doing, in support of the wizards.

[Agog_Fr]

So remember: TOLERANCE IS TREASON!!

And I especially approve of this fanatical message. ^^

I totally agree with the rest of Steeve's message.


For me, a drow is a centuries hereditary enemy, even more so for an elve or a dwarf.

Hostility must be the systematic attitude. It should really that after capture, the drow is a traitor, and delivers crucial information, so that a non-violent transition become possible.

This is my subjective opinion.

[Balthomer]

So remember: TOLERANCE IS TREASON!!

And I especially approve of this fanatical message. ^^

I totally agree with the rest of Steeve's message.


For me, a drow is a centuries hereditary enemy, even more so for an elve or a dwarf.

Hostility must be the systematic attitude. It should really that after capture, the drow is a traitor, and delivers crucial information, so that a non-violent transition become possible.

This is my subjective opinion.

Agreed

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

Well, I didn't expect so many people to support random backgroundless pvps! I have a few things to add here:

1) We're not playing npcs. Nominally, all the characters we play are adventurers (drow and orcs too), we don't play yet another orc brute from some cave with loot, or yet another drow bandit, or yet another human guard. Every character is an exception, and it's alright to RP a certain racial background, but imho it's a poor tone calling someone's RP less heavy if the person found a way to resolve some situation peacefully instead of mindlessly attacking or just didn't feel like acting hostile for no actual reason. On the server we have (and had) tons of crossrealm non-hostile rp that can't be called poor or shallow.

2) I noticed that everyone who supports killing on sight victimizes evil races. Your tone is like "I'll kill that drow if I see it". But what if drow kills your character instead? My point is everytime in server history team evil was winning it was leading to mass dramas and global online decrease. When attacking the said evil drow on sight, keep in mind the drow can win that pvp and you won't have any moral right to complain about consequences since you were rooting for attacking them on sight in the first place. Why I don't see any rhetorics like "If I see a human on my drow I'll kill it on sight"? When drow are getting bullied, it never causes drama, only when surfacers are it does. Why is it so one-sided?

3) OOC-wise, random pvps are discouraged I think since nobody wants to deal with yet another pvp investigation. I've had lots of them and that's not fun for any side taking part. Emoted hostility and OOC-courtesy over attacking on sight!