Campfire Rule Inconsistency.

[Ewe]

There seems to be an inconsistency. The General Server rules say not to steal from campfires, but the DM Ruling says stealing from campfires won't be enforced and is at your own risk. So is it ok to steal from campfires in the Nexus or not?


viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36831

Griefing
Do not intentionally disrupt or harass other players, either with mechanics or other means. This includes, but is not limited to, stealing from campfires/packhorses, exploiting summons to bypass PvP rules, or herding enemies to have them attack players.

https://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... 16#p866116

Updated 25/5/2019

Campfire Crashes and Item Loss
The DM Team will no longer be reimbursing items lost due to muling using campfires. Utilizing campfires for muling items is highly discouraged due to incidents of crashes and the possibility of theft. Relying on another player for muling is a far safer choice. Use campfires to mule items only at your own risk.

[JCVD1]

It's illegal to steal cars.

You might get your car stolen if you leave the doors unlocked and the key in, regardless of the law.

[Wolfrayne]

If you steal stuff and people catch you doing it there will almost always be consequences. That being said the DM's cant be on 24/7 so if you leave something in a campfire its at your own risk.

[K'yon Oblodra]

I have to admit that I've day I thoughtlessly removed a campfire in the nexus thinking it would lag the server. I sincerely hope noone took a disadvantage from that... I never checked if anything was in it...

Sorry should I have caused harm to anyone.

Cheers K'yon

[Ewe]

I guess my main question is, are campfires being policed? If so then it would seem using campfires isn't as "highly discouraged" as it could be?

[DM Theophanies]

Stealing falls under griefing and if possible, will be dealt with.

I guess my main question is, are campfires being policed?

[Maecius]

You can mechanically be robbed if you leave stuff on the ground (or in a campfire).

If this is done in an OOC manner, and is not a collaborative roleplay between the two players, then the thief will be punished if identified. You will also have your items returned to you if the thief still has them on any of their characters.

That being said, if you're robbed and you don't know by who, and there were no witnesses, or you lose your items in a server crash, the DMs are under no obligation to refund then to you.

Campfires are totally at your own risk.

That being said, we'll still punish people for breaking server rules if they're caught. There's no inconsistency.

[Ewe]

If I see one account/pc place a fire and log out, and then I see a different account/pc log in and take from the fire -- how do I know if it's a thief to report versus just someone muling to a secret account?

The reason I ask is because if I am logged out and my fire is in Nexus. Then in order for the thief to be caught someone else would have to be watching, but if someone else is watching they'd never be able to tell if it was actually a thief versus someone's new secret account?

[Maecius]

You could always "see something, say something." The DMs or admins can check if they're the same person if you think something suspicious is going on.

The main point is that campfire muling is allowed, but not supported and not encouraged. If you lose everything, it's on you for ignoring everybody's advice, really.

You can still ask for help from staff, of course, but it's not owed to you. And you can probably expect a "sorry, but no," for your response unless there are some extenuating circumstances, like you know someone robbed you and you are pretty sure you know who.

[Ewe]

Ok that sounds reasonable. But, what about the practice of campfire fishing? Like I setup a campfire in Nexus and load it with goods just to wait for someone to take them to try and get them banned for stealing?

It’s not specifically in the rules, but I’d argue it seems like a form of griefing itself?

[Steve]

Personally, I'd say laying OOC traps for others IS a form of griefing.

And furthermore, I'd hope you actually have something better to do with ones free time.

[Ewe]

Well, hear me out. Say you got robbed but didn’t know who, such a trap could help you catch the culprit but is it legal?

[Maecius]

I mean, that's literally never happened, Ewe.

But if it were to happen? I suppose that if someone "falls for the trap" and steals from the campfire, they're still going to be punished, yes*. Being "baited" is not an excuse for doing something wrong. Everyone has the free will to not be a jerk. At the same time, randomly trying to get people banned would probably also see the "campfire fisher" being politely asked to find another community, as that's not really the point of this community.

The point is to write fun stories here. And kill monsters. With other people!

*Though as with most things, the circumstances are important. If it's right before a server reset, they might be trying to grab the stuff so that somebody doesn't lose all their things. I'd probably copy their vault (so that the items can't be "laundered") and then wait a day or two before confronting them to see if a post goes up on the forum's "lost and found." But really, "it depends."

[Ewe]

Maecius, thanks for your patient explanations. You are truly a scholar and a gentleman (er gentlebear?). I have no further campfire questions. Thanks again, I was literally going through a crisis on this earlier today, but I feel a lot better now.