TWO STYLES OF ROLEPLAYER RESOURCE USE

[gedweyignasia]

Ulcasters Ruin is a FANTASTIC dungeon/Area. It is like a work of art, and personally I think it gets closest to what a tabletop adventure is like, but BGTSCC CRPG-like. Thanks, Ged!!!

But here is the rub: once you’ve done it, why do it again? It isn’t good for grinding (and lets face facts about how much of a driving factor this is!), and it isn’t even that good for treasure gain. So, the two MAJOR factors of this game besides the Great RP aspect, fall short.

So for feedback, I’d say consider how I’m a map/Area like this, or group of maps, design is added to give reason for Characters AND Players to revisit. Or, to stay longer. Or, where as much randomness can be instituted so the map isn’t learned then OOC abused, like the Minotaur’s Ruin, as example.

Comments aside, it really is a fantastic Area, and imagine how great it would be if BGTSCC had 30 areas like this, each designed around a CR level.

I made it as random as possible; there are 5 puzzles, but you only get a random selection of 3 per reset. The solution to each puzzle is randomized (or otherwise varied based on some other mechanism), but each has a key to getting past. Most can be brute-forced, but when you learn the "key"/trick, you can solve that puzzle quickly and painlessly. The problem with putting higher rewards in is that with knowledge of all five keys, you can bypass the entire dungeon in minutes. Additionally, players may be able to use certain tactics to bypass the puzzles, which I don't want to outright eliminate because it's part of their RP.


It's very difficult to think up more puzzles that can be randomized though, so PM me if you have any clever ideas?

The design constraints are:
- Must be able to brute-force the puzzle (get past by trying all combinations)
- Must be able to go backwards safely to give up
- Should be a "key" to solving it that players can figure out from clues
- Ideally, it groups players in one area without forcing them to run around too much, so they can talk
- Should encourage parties, but not necessarily require them

[gedweyignasia]

So, yeah... that place is amazing and that library is killer. Thank you for the hard work! Solving that damn statue puzzle annoyed the ever living hell out of me haha.

That's all tfunke's hard work! I just did the scripting/puzzles. That man really knows how to design some killer areas. (And literally, some killer areas, tfunke. CR 16?! REALLY?! *sobbing*)

[Mythic Revenant]

That's all tfunke's hard work! I just did the scripting/puzzles. That man really knows how to design some killer areas. (And literally, some killer areas, tfunke. CR 16?! REALLY?! *sobbing*)

Still, those puzzles are fun! And, actually, made me have the most fun in terms of having the actually think. It was a SUPER refreshing change of pace not mindlessly carving through mobs. I'd like to see more puzzles and/or non-combat areas such as this. Having skill-dependent riddles and/or puzzles would actually be kind of nice as well.

Like, "Hmm... This is nature lore... and I'm not too sure about it. I'm going to ask my druid buddy about it..."

Not everything HAS to be accessible to EVERYONE right away. If I encounter something like that and have to turn back to either re-engage or find someone with the requisite skillsets, I don't mind, provided the reward is worth it (either in terms of coinage or RP value, though I tend to hold this in a 20%/80% regard).

Hope this helps?

[ugljesa94]

I agree with Artorias, endless hack and slash does have its charms but it usually gets boring after an hour or two... Gods know how many wyvrens I've killed, everyday grinding wyvrens from lvl 15ish to 20, hard work. Puzzles, riddles and skill required "quests" are always welcome and they make your character feel more alive, more like a well developed character with his own skills and flaws and not some random guy with a sword you saw hacking gnolls and orcs for ages. Also random encounters are a big plus, would love to see more of those and even some daily random quests like " A particularly vicious gnoll has been stirring up the pack for days, they are ready to strike. Cut the weed in its roots adventurer, strike before they do and save the poor people of the Coast!" I'm hoping this would force people to work together even more and provide us with some good RP! Though I personally dislike that most people I meet are characters with already made up stories, who kinda force their perspective on me, their characters are stuck in this closed RP box of their own making and fail to realise that their toon should develop during their travels or slightly change in a way ( good or bad doesnt matter, as long as it makes sense). "iM a PaLaDiN oF tYr, why do you wear a mask in the wilderness, you must be evil, oh a guy with leather armor and a cloak, must be a bandit" Sorry we dont all walk around in shinning plate armor blessed by the just gods!

[gedweyignasia]

What kind of mechanics provide good RP opportunities for Type 2 roleplayers? What makes it easier or harder to develop your character in a dungeon? What sort of circumstances have led to really good RP experiences, and how did fate conspire to create those circumstances?

[Ewe]

Hey back on topic. There are no “type 2” rp’ers this shouldn’t be a thing. As was said earlier there is only one type of rper: the one that wants to have fun.

[Hoihe]

What kind of mechanics provide good RP opportunities for Type 2 roleplayers? What makes it easier or harder to develop your character in a dungeon? What sort of circumstances have led to really good RP experiences, and how did fate conspire to create those circumstances?

For me, concentrated encounters rather than enemies being spread far and out.

Opportunities that give a chance to interact with the dungeon itself in a way that sparks either conversation, or the use of emotes.

Obstacles in the dungeon that require more than just "More and more AB/AC/HP/DMG!" and instead require specialized (but fair) skillsets to progress, encouraging finding specialists. Also the permittance of RP builds to be able to participate in an active manner.

The ability to have a sense of progress even if you only go through a place once or twice a week. As of presently, the best way to get gold is running level 1-6 dungeons to amass chests, rather than for a group of paladins to brave the vault of the dead and cleanse it of undead.

Lore dumps on the dungeon, like in Durlag's - and the opportunities to use that lore mechanically. Again, Durlag's.

[krighaur]

I will write in a different manner something I wrote earlier : what differentiate most RP is if you are "integrated" or not in the server RP

Integrated = your PC is in an active guild or/and has earned the "ear of the DMs" AND you are able to play when most other integrated PC play

If your PC is integrated, you can discard grinding, you have plenty of people with whom you can talk about important things, plot and schemes, and you have plenty adventures (DM events that await you)

If you are not integrated, once you have exhausted the discovery of your background, you can speak about weather, debate about lore and grind.

[K'yon Oblodra]

What kind of mechanics provide good RP opportunities for Type 2 roleplayers? What makes it easier or harder to develop your character in a dungeon? What sort of circumstances have led to really good RP experiences, and how did fate conspire to create those circumstances?

1)What kind of mechanics provide good opportunities for Type 2 roleplayers?

I think one of the things that always leads to RP is anything that kind of slows down the killing and running.

Often it's when all wait for the rogue type to unlock the chest or disarm a trap. That aren't the only possibilities for that though. I think as Steve already mentioned the option to loot is a good incentive so spreading chests out in a dungeon instead of having this one spot with multiple cheats rather have them spread.

Now on to what else could further RP, riddles would be one or generaly obstacles. Those that would allow to get through clever choice of dialogue options, could also get extra answers depending on certain skills, if a threshold is hit you'd get this other option that guarantees a sucess in the part of the riddle, maybe offer multiple options in terms of skills, maybe even ability scores to dunno push the boulder instead of finding the right switch or whatever.

Then something that could force a slow down would be if one could randomise the order in which the possible answers are given, might sound stupid but would somewhat force a slow down... Might be unpopular but dunno I like the idea XD.

Generally more skill checks, dialogue options to get into a certain area of a dungeon and the like would be cool. I was in some cave that had a locked door I simply could not open no matter how... I still wonder what's behind it and I'll take a bunch of people to go there once I have a good RP idea to go alomg with it . A cave in the troll hills if anyone is wondering .

2) What makes it easier or harder to develop your character in a dungeon?

I kind of explained what makes it easier, in my opinion anyways, in the first part and have some other ideas in the third part. So I'll focus on the negatives here.

To me it's lack of interaction with things generally that makes people kinda run from chest to chest, monster to monster.

The mentioned encounters would help. The duergar compound has some of these elements I think. Maybe one could make these encounters even slightly harder or specific due to creating mixed groups for them.

Maybe give players a fair warning like it's done before the purples come or in certain areas where you get warned for entering them.

Giving the groups some kind of text they yell when attacking or maybe some kind of dialogue before it comes to the fight could be a thing though I guess that would be tricky due to possible abuse.
Could be cool too though, if you had enough spot you might already see the hidden ambush or not if you didn't XD.

Giving these encounters more meaning would also allow the players to discuss the happenings... Probably one would need different dialogues randomly chosen to make this more interesting in the long run which makes it more work if course but maybe all the more rewarding considering how long these areas might be around.

I'd also offer my help for dialogues and surely others would as well.

Okay that was way too positive in opposition to what I said initially...

So negative... The random spawns lead to people running off to kill the next singular creature that is attacking them or may just be visible from afar. That always interrupts.


3)I think for character development it's lore related things, for a scholar type like my character I love the books, finding books on the netherese in a netherese ruin that gives the character knowledge that otherwise might be somewhat meta gamey to know about is pretty cool.

Wonder if one could add certain items like shields, weapons or armors or different utility type of equipment to have a higher chance of dropping in a dungeon so that the drops could be themed around the location.

Now I know this sounds a bit WoW style but I do think that it has some merit giving a dwarven to find a weapon of his ancestors might be a neat little gadget and the power would not necessarily have to all to great, infact it could be very low, or if one wanted to go with the WoW approach, vary... Not sure how possible that is and what others thing about it.

Sorry Zael no TLDR this time XD

I hope I got some good points

@krighaur Come to the UD, I can't promise you the ear of the DMs but we have a bunch of people down here with a very high activity that will allow you to RP with them. A very open bunch of people.

Maybe we are fewer than there are in the surface but the level of activity of those around is high to extremely high. Which is in my opinion an extremely important factor to be able to establish relationships and with those RP possibilities.

Cheers K'yon

[bono_bob]

I wish people were more into adventuring RP as its the bread and butter for any new player. Like i got time to level slow becsuse im a newb, but I do not have time to chill around s fire as some nobody with s bunch of level 30s.

If more adventuring RP is done, then more characters stop to smell the roses on their way up the ladder which would in turn create more adventure/ low level RP.

Its a little hard when you constantly been clocking in hours for years and i understand the momentum ends up going the other way.

[Steve]

I wish people were more into adventuring RP as its the bread and butter for any new player. Like i got time to level slow becsuse im a newb, but I do not have time to chill around s fire as some nobody with s bunch of level 30s.

If more adventuring RP is done, then more characters stop to smell the roses on their way up the ladder which would in turn create more adventure/ low level RP.

Its a little hard when you constantly been clocking in hours for years and i understand the momentum ends up going the other way.

There are still quite a lot of adventuring PCs out there! I, for one, start a Level 1 PC every year, so that I am re-experience the new additions and the new Players.

But maybe you see less adventuring during your time zones/game hours? That can often be a difficult issue to resolve.

I’d suggest placing an IC “advertisement” both on the Forum RP threads and the IG bulletin boards, to build up an Adventuring Company or crew.

You’d be surprised what a little communication can do for you.

[Tanlaus]

I wish people were more into adventuring RP as its the bread and butter for any new player. Like i got time to level slow becsuse im a newb, but I do not have time to chill around s fire as some nobody with s bunch of level 30s.

If more adventuring RP is done, then more characters stop to smell the roses on their way up the ladder which would in turn create more adventure/ low level RP.

Its a little hard when you constantly been clocking in hours for years and i understand the momentum ends up going the other way.

Funny, I kind of experience the opposite of your assumption. I have a few 30s and find that, even on my non 30s I prefer to walk and talk through dungeons instead of racing around. It’s more fun to ‘adventure’ than to grind. Which is more what I’ll do if I’m on later and no one else is around.

Also, walking and talking through areas is just as XP rewarding because you’re still getting RP XP on top of the kills, even if the kills aren’t coming as fast.

[K'yon Oblodra]

I think he didn't mean grinding but adventuring just as described by you.
What he doesn't like is the camp fire/bar RP.

Which I can relate to, sometimes it's needed to form plots but I do like me some action and exploring between these solely talking moments.

What time zone are you in Bonobob .

[Miyuki]

Better late than never. I consider myself as a mix of type 1 and 2. Here’s my opinion, no offense.

On one hand I have only two actively played characters, of which I play one 99% actively. The other one is mostly just played on request. On the other hand I’m not a Powerbuilder, mostly my characters are a mix of rp and survivability. As long as it’s enough for what they do, I’m happy.

Like others already said, on this server you either level or you’re bad for a long time. Even in my only dm plot since I returned, I already experienced that monsters were so strong, my character didn’t stand a chance. And that at level 22 back then.
Also it simply fits my character concept of being someone who supports adventuring. I can sit in guild areas, campfires and organize other rp events myself. But I also poke my guild homies to do open meetings so others can play along as well. I do play not only with preferred groups, because it makes one too dependent on few people. If those people aren’t around, I would sit around alone. So I try to make contacts to various players, characters, or groups. It’s important to me, that other players and me are not constantly caught up in fluff rp. So I try to offer some change, between adventure, every day rp, deep and private rp, fun events and guild rp.

I mostly just go grinding if no one is around for rp at my (sadly limited) playtimes.

I think, playing only with the same old friends or standing around in the Nexus takes away the chances of meeting new people. Sure I have friends I like to play with best or most of the time. But It’s better to give also others a chance even if one had a bad start. Meeting new people in rp and adventuring with friends in various groups is something I clearly enjoy both.

Just my 2 cents.

[AgentOrange]

There's a third kind.