Hunter Ranger - Is it good enough?

[blacksoft]

Are there any looks to have this kit improved?

Taking away the spellcasting abilities of Ranger is quite significant assuming that the individual wants to go full 30 Hunter Ranger levels.

Just a braindump of some ideas to help the class. Obviously, I dont mean to have all of them applied, as they are just suggestions.

Either way it seems to me the trapping replacement abilities are subpar. It also seems to me that it is one if not the least popularly-used kit.

-Why not take bounty hunter kit from BG2 as inspiration for more options (more powerful abilities)
-Take Stalker kit from BG2 and give Hunter Ranger some SA dice and some basic arcane spellcasting
-take Scout class as inspiration for some added AC, some SA, and other things that class adds
-Progress FE the actual every 4 levels and not stop the after 2 FE bumps at Hunter Ranger level 9
-Perhaps enable shared Traction skill so others can see enemies on map
-idk there are many ways you can take this kit

[YourMoveHolyMan]

In my experience, the trap wasn't that great, or useful.

You lose a lot of nice spell buffs which makes you much more gear reliant, like a regular fighter. I made a post about it a few years ago that spelled it out more but it'd take a bit to find it.

[Theodore01]

You gain speed, more FE, uncanny dodge, free many shot (and the traps) - it's a good trade for spells, depending on your build.

Sure getting one or two more feats later wouldn't hurt overall.
Protective ward could be added. But what else ....?


I'm considering to RCR my ranger into a hunter, because so far (lv25), he only uses barkskin and flame blades.
Are there other useful spells for a melee ranger?

[Theodore01]

-Progress FE the actual every 4 levels and not stop the after 2 FE bumps at Hunter Ranger level 9

already there
Extra Favored Enemy: You may select an additional Favored Enemy feat at hunter level 4, and every five hunter levels thereafter.

[blacksoft]

-Progress FE the actual every 4 levels and not stop the after 2 FE bumps at Hunter Ranger level 9

already there
Extra Favored Enemy: You may select an additional Favored Enemy feat at hunter level 4, and every five hunter levels thereafter.

Uh it only gives you 2 total extra FE. Doesn't actually progress further.

[qwertyh88]

I'm considering to RCR my ranger into a hunter, because so far (lv25), he only uses barkskin and flame blades.
Are there other useful spells for a melee ranger?

What? ! I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not..

Let me assume you are not, perhaps you have uber gears and not using a Pet.

Useful Spells for us lowly melee ranger and not using a Pet
Cat's, Bear's, Flameblade, Halo of Sand, Barkskin, Aid, Embrace the Wild, Freedom of Movement, Hawkeye, Pass without Trace, Camouflage, Tree Stride.....



IMO, Hunter is class that is best taken to lvl 5 or lvl 10 for some two weapon fighting builds.So it has value in that space. Going Hunter to lvl 30 is weak compared to 30 lvl Ranger.

[Theodore01]

Seems like a bug then, assuming you did use the FE selection feat.

[tankteddy]

Hunter does progress FE as intended you have to use the feat in your character menu to select bonus feats.
//No change really needed here.

Personally I play a STR based Archer Hunter. My damage output is Subpar when it comes to range only doing around 13-24 damage on a Normal arrow, and around 40-80 with Manyshots and Crits.
//This is my of just the way my build is I would love a bit of extra damage like some SA dice or something but oh well.

Traps damage is also extremely subpar if they succeed the save which it more times then you think. However, the slow effect that applies with slowing traps EVEN on a failed save is fantastic. I was able to solo Wyverns from level 14-22 with good exp. Granted it was slow using traps mixed with stealth to do a Hit and Run kinda soloing. ((this does, however, fit my PC RP))
//If any change I would Increase the base and maybe scaling DC to a cap of 40-45 or so (for epic creatures) Also they do not work in PVP at all. Not that I care for it but there are a few times in RP that my traps would mean me winning or losing a duel.

Losing the spells means you do miss out on a lot of good buffs, but in the end, you just become reliant on wands/scroll/gear/Party members.
//The only changes I could see being made if maybe give ranger a few key feats for free or special spell-like abilities such as; Protective ward for free, Natural bond, or a Perma freedom of movement or something. ((Granted that might be a little OP))

As for animal companion. With the lack of spell I would not mind seeing them get Natural bond for free at like level 8-14 and maybe even epic animal bond or something at like hunter level 24-28 it would help a little with the lack of spell to help protect your companion.

All in all the things I have noticed with Hunter is to get full benefit from the class you basicly have to run with 24-30 levels hunter. With the lack of multiclassing, you lack damage in every way. Traps do little to nothing, Melee combat is subpar, the range is okay-ish if you go xbow sniper or something, your animal companion is far to weak with out wards. There is also to much overlap. If you build for PTWF or any sort of Melee Hunter, your AC is lacking, and your AB is never really good enough to use the manyshot feats except for "Flavor" Even if you do have high enough AB your damage suffers. If you focus on Range weapons, you get nothing from Hunter if you take archery combat style from overlapping feats, and if you multiclass to increase damage you suffer as well losing favor enemies and trap bonuses/DC. Honestly Hunter is more just a All in for flavor, or Dip class for free manyshot with twf.

2 builds I think can make good use of Hunter are:
1) Xbow Sniper Hunter fully focused on Range damage and high Trap DC.
2) STR based PTWF Hunter with burtal thrower and Throwing Axes. Add your STR to hit and damage from range making decent use of a niche weapon.

[Deragnost]

Honestly, this kit is perfect if you want to be a Favoured Power Attacker, and the trap is cute. You can wear heavy armor and not lose the Rapid Shot thing if you're into heavy armors!
Though my suggestion is, if you want to follow this route, to be a Favoured Power Attacker with a 2-handed weapon (warmace preferably, because bludgeoning is the most difficult to resist).
At 2nd ranger level, when you're asked which combat style to use, I still suggest Archery for the epic free feat at level 21.


With the kit, you can have a lot of Favoured Enemies along with Favoured Power Attack feats (or Improved Favoured Enemies, too).
The trap is a little meh, but I guess in PvE can help, or against those players that are dumb enough to walk on it (it will never happen or very rarely unless you build it on their feet, but it's a waste of turn imho). As I said, cute but not essential.

And yes, I believe that's it. Don't forget Bane of Enemies!

[Truthiness]

Hunter only seems worth it if you're not taking many ranger levels. The ranger spells on BG are far too valuable at full CL. Barkskin, Halo of Sand, Mass Camouflage, Pass without Trace, Embrace the Wild (free blind-fight!), Cat's Grace, Bear's Endurance, Owl's Wisdom, +3 AB with Hawkeye, Aid and Blessed Aim (works with melee too, somehow). And if you're going pure ranger and using the animal companion, it 100% needs ranger buffs. Hunter only has 10 levels of progression, which admittedly needs to be changed if it's worth it on anything other than ranger dips, the traps themselves need to be improved as well (22 reflex dc at 30 hunter and maxed craft trap lol). What's important about a bunch of the spells is they free up gear slots for +saves, +hide/ms, +spot, etc gear that a hunter couldn't equip due to needing natural/deflect ac/etc.

So, if you're 21+ ranger, I would suggest to never go hunter, unless you're going some melee/ranged mix that is completely feat-starved (If it's not, then the spells are more useful). If you want to dip 3-11 levels of ranger, hunter is usually worth it (especially around hunter 3-4, which nets you toughness, uncanny dodge, twf or rapid shot, and fast movement).

[Diamore]

I find playing my hunter very relaxing, there is a certain rhythm to the"trap, stealth, manyshot, repeat". I only noticed yesterday I even had an animal companion, I had forgotten it existed because it was never useful and would actually break the aforementioned rhythm.

I greatly enjoy having a way to actually use traps in a strategic and useful manner. But beyond that, it has very limited effectiveness as a class. I am a Xbow sniper with an emphasis on traps with 3 levels of Rogue for trapfinding. While I can solo a number of areas, slowly and methodically, I have virtually no benefits when paired with others. Playstyle is either slow, or below average when compared to a normal Ranger.

I can't see many ways you could build a Hunter and have much more success. The favored power attack idea might be okay, but I think it would be a poor simulation of most other two handed builds. The melee/axe thrower might be interesting? But playing a Hunter you definitely feel the missing spells hard.

You might even feel the loss of a useful pet if you remember you even have one.

[chad878262]

Truthiness has the right of it if we are talking about the 'optimal' way to build a Hunter Ranger. You can essentially consider (Hunter) Ranger 11 a way of getting a lot of feats for relatively small level investment. Consider for 11 levels you get:

Fast Movement (outdoors)
Uncanny Dodge
Rapid Shot
Many Shot
Track/Swift Tracker
Toughness
Evasion
Either Improved Rapid Shot *OR* TWF/ITWF/GTWF
5 Favored Enemies (3 from regular Ranger, 2 from Hunter levels) = 5 enemy types that give you +5 damage and some skill checks)

Fighter 12 gets you 7 bonus feats (1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12). assuming you grab WF, WS, GWF, GWS and Melee Mastery that is 5 of your 7 and nets you +4 AB, +6 Damage against all enemies + 2 other Feats.

Now, if you just look at the Favored Enemies then it's quite obvious +4 AB/+6 Damage against everything is better than +5 damage against 5 very specific enemy types. However, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Toughness are good for literally everyone and free TWF/ITWF/GTWF have many uses, especially when you get them with no DEX requirement.

Let's look at some types of builds that might benefit from Hunter, starting with a Fighter example.

F14/R(H)13/BG3 - Shield Bashing build with 3 APR from the Shield while still being able to focus on STR and get +2 DC from Black Guard for crowd control. Can get solid AC while also doing very good damage.
B20/R(H)6/T4 - GTWF Barbarian which could either go the shield slam/bash route or just fight with 2 weapons.
Then you also have things like R(H)11/A9/WS10 for the kind of more sneak attack focused 'Hunter' Archer type.

Basically as Truthiness said, any build that makes use of Ranger for anything from 3-13 or so levels is better off with Hunter since at least you get *something* since your spells will be dispelled even by Lesser Dispels thrown your way.

So, is it good enough? Depends on what your definition of 'good enough' is. I have argued for improving it in the past, and would do so again. However, I would not want to give it anything else that carries benefit for taking ~15 or fewer levels, since they already give quite a lot. I would be quite interested in perhaps some additional unique trap options with either 'no save' effects or at a minimum getting them to more respectable DCs (I feel like Hunter 30 traps should be able to reach DC ~35-38 if they focus on maximizing the DCs).

[Zkenic]

Just a quick headsup, as a player that has a 11Hunter, that the damage and skill bumps for favored enemies is not what it says it is. Favored Enemy bonuses are calculated at 1+1/5ranger level, so a level 11 hunter will get +3 damage and spot just like a standard level 11 ranger, but the Hunter will get two extra enemies to apply those bonuses too.

Past that I am in full agreement with Chad here. 11 Hunter nets you more skills, toughness, uncanny dodge, and evasion compared to the 12 fighter dip. 12 Fighter wins out if all you care about is having the biggest combat numbers, but 11 Hunter gets you a lot of utility.