Setting immersion and...things

[DaloLorn]

If I remember correctly, ARCANE magic is unpredictable and DIVINE magic doesn't work at all unless the physical aspect of the god is however far away. Not all magic would be taken away and again, if I remember correctly, your innate relics/magic items should still work fine. Every mage would just become a borderline wild mage and your clerics will become weak fighters.

That is correct.

"The immediate effects of this edict were threefold. First, divine magic (spells granted to clerics by their patron deities) ceased to function altogether unless the cleric was within one mile of their deity's avatar. Second, arcane magic (a force channeled from the Weave by wizards and sorcerers) ceased to be regulated by its steward, Mystra, and became dangerously unpredictable. Third, the characteristically immortal and aloof deities were now vulnerable (though still devastatingly powerful) and dwelling among the civilizations of Faerûn."

From the FR wiki. The ToT could be EXTREMELY interesting. Imagine a group of adventurers realizing the gods are talking among mortals and trying to assassinate one of said gods. The Silence of Lolth would start a lot sooner, let me tell you that. I'm not sure whether that'd be borderline immersion breaking or a way to really change the timeline, but I can see players trying to eliminate a specific set of gods. Someone might go after Bane, for example.

We would end with 80% of gods wiped out.

I think you radically underestimate the "devastatingly powerful" in Shadowspinner's quote. Take Bane's avatar, for instance, since he's among those who die in the ToT - the earliest statblock I can find for Bane puts him at level 111... and that's before you factor in the server's level inflation. After level inflation, I'd say Bane's avatar could easily be level 222. The other gods probably can't be much weaker than that.

[Shadowspinner70]

Oh, I didn't know that. I usually checked out gods and their avatars, at least, were level 30-40. That's good to know, since if any of the remaining gods (since I may have forgotten Bane died, thanks c2k) that enter the area, if despised by any demographic, might see many more assassination attempts.

[Blackbird]

Faiths and Pantheons has a a Bane statblock (as well as some other gods). He's listed as a Fighter 15/Blackguard 10/Cleric 10/Wizard 10/Rogue 20. Has some appropriately absurd abilities as well like a 17-mile divine aura, divine blast within that same range for 33d12 damage, at-will plane shift, immunity to pretty much every kind of damage, alter reality with a DC of 53 and well, you get the point.

[c2k]

Bane gets killed by Torm, Bhaal and Leira get killed by Cyric, Moander gets killed by Finder Wyvernspur, Myrkul gets killed by Midnight, and Mystra gets killed because she is an idiot (She tried to forced her way back through the Gates, and Helm(who Ao still allowed to have his god powers), bound by his duty, killed her).

Cyric also kills Kelemvor, but Kelemvor wasn't a deity yet.

And after helping Cyric do all that murder, Mask got crippled by his ally because that's how villains roll. For details, Mask took the form of Cyric's weapon, and after acquiring his power, Cyric destroyed it.

That is the most notable list of deaths.

[DaloLorn]

Oh, I didn't know that. I usually checked out gods and their avatars, at least, were level 30-40. That's good to know, since if any of the remaining gods (since I may have forgotten Bane died, thanks c2k) that enter the area, if despised by any demographic, might see many more assassination attempts.

To be fair, the "earliest" was in chronological terms, a 2e statblock. Blackbird's seems more accurate to 3e, though it still specs out at an impressive level 65. (Which still works out to 110 in BG levels. It would take quite an effort for the DMs to allow someone like that to die...)

Faiths and Pantheons has a a Bane statblock (as well as some other gods). He's listed as a Fighter 15/Blackguard 10/Cleric 10/Wizard 10/Rogue 20. Has some appropriately absurd abilities as well like a 17-mile divine aura, divine blast within that same range for 33d12 damage, at-will plane shift, immunity to pretty much every kind of damage, alter reality with a DC of 53 and well, you get the point.

[Korchas]

Bane gets killed by Torm, Bhaal and Leira get killed by Cyric, Moander gets killed by Finder Wyvernspur, Myrkul gets killed by Midnight, and Mystra gets killed because she is an idiot (She tried to forced her way back through the Gates, and Helm(who Ao still allowed to have his god powers), bound by his duty, killed her).

Cyric also kills Kelemvor, but Kelemvor wasn't a deity yet.

And after helping Cyric do all that murder, Mask got crippled by his ally because that's how villains roll. For details, Mask took the form of Cyric's weapon, and after acquiring his power, Cyric destroyed it.

That is the most notable list of deaths.

Only adding that Leira's Death is not 100% certain, cause she may have just as well shunted her portfolio off and gone on vacation. Goddess of lies and deceit and all.
Mystra wanted to fix things and was just bad at communicating plus Helm is a jerk, so the fault there lies with both IMO.

[Zkenic]

No way, Helm is the best. He only did what he was commanded to do by Ao. Mystra is the dumb dumb.

[c2k]

Helm did not want to kill Mystra. He told her to stop and even warned her he would prevent her from entering, but Mystra is an idiot.

[deetis]

The brutally honest answer to this problem is that there isn't an answer because BGTSCC only barely qualifies as a roleplaying server in the first place, it's more of an adventure-lite. There are people here who take roleplay very seriously, most probably because NWN2 is dying the long slow death and there aren't any alternatives left anymore. But there's just as many (more, if I'm basing it off my own anecdotal experience here) that don't roleplay at all or make a very bare minimum effort at it. On its drive to remain the most populated server, BGTSCC has always tried to be everything to every kind of player with minimal barriers to entry, and the end result of that is what it is today - a sterile place where the fantastical is paradoxically normalized because there is no real, tangible way for player agency to affect anything, and so most people descend into rampant snowflake-ism. It's impossible to enforce the integrity of the setting on a server where half the player characters are Outsiders.

BGTSCC is a place to log in and kill monsters, and maybe get a little light, in-character banter on the side once in a while. If you play with the expectation of more than that you're usually going to end up disappointed.

[Snarfy]

The brutally honest answer to this problem is that there isn't an answer because BGTSCC only barely qualifies as a roleplaying server in the first place, it's more of an adventure-lite. There are people here who take roleplay very seriously, most probably because NWN2 is dying the long slow death and there aren't any alternatives left anymore. But there's just as many (more, if I'm basing it off my own anecdotal experience here) that don't roleplay at all or make a very bare minimum effort at it. On its drive to remain the most populated server, BGTSCC has always tried to be everything to every kind of player with minimal barriers to entry, and the end result of that is what it is today - a sterile place where the fantastical is paradoxically normalized because there is no real, tangible way for player agency to affect anything, and so most people descend into rampant snowflake-ism. It's impossible to enforce the integrity of the setting on a server where half the player characters are Outsiders.

BGTSCC is a place to log in and kill monsters, and maybe get a little light, in-character banter on the side once in a while. If you play with the expectation of more than that you're usually going to end up disappointed.

There's actually some decent RP out there, but you really have to dig deep to find it.

[Shadowspinner70]

Deetis, Snarfy . . .




Though I do really, really love light banter. Grinding, not my thing.

Edit: I'll say the light banter brings together and lightens all of the intrigue, all of the events, everything. We all need that slice of life somewhere, so you'll often find my characters screwing around before, after, or during some wild plot.

[bharring]

The banter and whatnot seems to be what grounds the characters and builds investment.

As a relatively new player (my main character is lvl18), I felt for a long time I needed to level up to get into RP situations, so felt like I needed to grind. But it doesn't feel like that anymore.

I still do clear the Field of the Dead or the Orc camp, but I try to use that as an impetus for RP, or hope to meet people along the way. The conversations and events while doing it is much more meaningful than the combat or loot.

So it's superficially very similar to grinding, but that's not the intent. I'm just not always clear on where/how to find RP, and not particularly good at it.

As a druid of Talos, though, regular violence and a fixation on it is fairly necessary (although could be off-screen). Just RPing by the campfire, after a while, is out of character.

(Also, thank you Valefort, for pointing out the distances involved in some of these threats. Hadn't realized it, and it does change things. Always up for feedback.)

[Hoihe]

The banter and whatnot seems to be what grounds the characters and builds investment.

As a relatively new player (my main character is lvl18), I felt for a long time I needed to level up to get into RP situations, so felt like I needed to grind. But it doesn't feel like that anymore.

I still do clear the Field of the Dead or the Orc camp, but I try to use that as an impetus for RP, or hope to meet people along the way. The conversations and events while doing it is much more meaningful than the combat or loot.

So it's superficially very similar to grinding, but that's not the intent. I'm just not always clear on where/how to find RP, and not particularly good at it.

As a druid of Talos, though, regular violence and a fixation on it is fairly necessary (although could be off-screen). Just RPing by the campfire, after a while, is out of character.

(Also, thank you Valefort, for pointing out the distances involved in some of these threats. Hadn't realized it, and it does change things. Always up for feedback.)

We have a thread somewhere detailing distances. They're... pretty wild. But even if we can't find them - we've a thread about the atlas of the sword coast with a scale for distance.

One could argue it is immersion breaking that in a single day, our characters travel what can be up to a thousand miles and thus argue for a non 1:1 timescale.

However, for cases where distance/time matters, the DMs usually make special rules (for instance, Hellsteel campaign and the talonite wars - there were rules about only being able to attend events within X regions to simulate simultaneousness and traveltime). For everything else, time ratios other than 1:1 negatively affect character roleplay. After all, if you can't play for X time, all RP you had going is now possibly years in the past rather than a few weeks or months - and no longer relevant.

Deetis, Snarfy . . .




Though I do really, really love light banter. Grinding, not my thing.

Edit: I'll say the light banter brings together and lightens all of the intrigue, all of the events, everything. We all need that slice of life somewhere, so you'll often find my characters screwing around before, after, or during some wild plot.

A number of us specifically play for that slice of life aspect, where the plots and battles and such are simply a backdrop to provide specific emotional environments for a character's life to be experienced.

The brutally honest answer to this problem is that there isn't an answer because BGTSCC only barely qualifies as a roleplaying server in the first place, it's more of an adventure-lite. There are people here who take roleplay very seriously, most probably because NWN2 is dying the long slow death and there aren't any alternatives left anymore. But there's just as many (more, if I'm basing it off my own anecdotal experience here) that don't roleplay at all or make a very bare minimum effort at it. On its drive to remain the most populated server, BGTSCC has always tried to be everything to every kind of player with minimal barriers to entry, and the end result of that is what it is today - a sterile place where the fantastical is paradoxically normalized because there is no real, tangible way for player agency to affect anything, and so most people descend into rampant snowflake-ism. It's impossible to enforce the integrity of the setting on a server where half the player characters are Outsiders.

BGTSCC is a place to log in and kill monsters, and maybe get a little light, in-character banter on the side once in a while. If you play with the expectation of more than that you're usually going to end up disappointed.

I am very curious as to your definition of snowflake.

Technically speaking, anyone who is not a level 1 commoner is a snowflake.

[Steve]

It’s not just the light/medium/heavy role-play that can be had—or not—on BGTSCC that stops immersion, you also have to take into the actual Interface of the NWN2 game itself, which is INCREDIBLY limiting in its design.

If the issue still stands that what is lacking in BGTSCC is immersion into role-play of a Character, that “lack” is going to be defined by a common denominator. If everyone isn’t RPing with the same frame of mind and IC effort, the low will drag down the high, and in the end, mediocrity.

Now, I’m not saying mediocrity is bad, because we could also call that Medium, and that is supposedly the RP level that BGTSCC promotes: make an effort to RP at all times, stay IC, etc....but good/bad or High/Low RP is not defined nor is it required.

I’ve said it for years now: if the Server wanted greater attention to RP, you have to actively reward it. Concrete rewards. Not just words of praise and thank yous. It also has to be led and cultivated and, whether one likes to hear it or not, upheld.

Thing is, if you look back over the Server, you’ll see where what I speak up above WAS offered to the player base, and, beat of all, it worked. The RP and story building was fantastic, often, and inclusive.

But, one can also look back over the Server in more recent times and see how RP, “immersion,” effort was hardly if at all rewarded in any concrete form whatsoever. And you know what happens? Those Players that make the effort for stories, immersion and inclusion, they leave the Server.

And that’s just not a good thing.

[Snarfy]

If the issue still stands that what is lacking in BGTSCC is immersion into role-play of a Character, that “lack” is going to be defined by a common denominator. If everyone isn’t RPing with the same frame of mind and IC effort, the low will drag down the high, and in the end, mediocrity.

If I could draw from my own recent experiences, I believe what most often drags down this common denominator is not necessarily what I would call low RP. Low RP to me is just another word for basic, or not overly complex, role-play. And there is nothing at all wrong with taking a more basic approach to RP. What I personally find that really makes the quality of RP suffer here(and by proxy my ability to stay immersed) is the injection of modern-day vernacular or idealism into the setting, or when I encounter players who make little effort to portray their "character"... or, more simply put, player laziness. Conversely, I am starting to get a real sense that some players out there are getting 'personally' rubbed the wrong way(or perhaps even feel attacked?) as a result of how I portray some of my characters. Case in point: my drow hating elves, or just the stand-off'ish nature of several of my characters. I am not them, and they are not me.

Again IMHO, we really need to reinforce some fundamental values here, if we ever want to collectively strengthen the common denominator, specifically where the following is concerned:
- Be mindful that the PLAYER and the CHARACTER are not one and the same. This applies to your own role-play as well.
It is perfectly natural to incorporate some of your identity into your characters, but that does not mean that they should become purely a vessel of expression for you, as a person.
- Character separation is. A. Must. Practice it. If you play numerous characters like I do, the healthiest and most responsible thing you can do for EVERYONE, is to compartmentalize each and every one of them, and do not let what you know, as a player, bleed over into all aspects of your various characters' role-play. I cannot overstate how destructive and irresponsible it is to encounter a brand new character that somehow knows details about your own, simply because the player behind that character learned it while on a previous character(or even worse, because they read something on the forums, or bloody discord).

Now, I’m not saying mediocrity is bad, because we could also call that Medium, and that is supposedly the RP level that BGTSCC promotes: make an effort to RP at all times, stay IC, etc....but good/bad or High/Low RP is not defined nor is it required.

Exactly. And I think, for the most part, that the players here do an admirable job of staying in character.

I’ve said it for years now: if the Server wanted greater attention to RP, you have to actively reward it. Concrete rewards. Not just words of praise and thank yous. It also has to be led and cultivated and, whether one likes to hear it or not, upheld.

^ Underlined and made orange to QFT. Leading by example is one of those things where many players, including(especially) myself, tend to fall short.

Thing is, if you look back over the Server, you’ll see where what I speak up above WAS offered to the player base, and, beat of all, it worked. The RP and story building was fantastic, often, and inclusive.

But, one can also look back over the Server in more recent times and see how RP, “immersion,” effort was hardly if at all rewarded in any concrete form whatsoever. And you know what happens? Those Players that make the effort for stories, immersion and inclusion, they leave the Server.

Sad, but true. I personally know at least a half dozen outstanding players/role-players who have vowed to never return to BG. If we have any intention, or inclination, or desire to keep the story-tellers around, then it is imperative that we focus on bringing back the "collaborative-effort" mentality, IC'ly, and OOC'ly, and dismantle the competitive nature that seems to have taken hold here.