Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2020)

[Valefort]

Thanks Ras

So far I've been able to automatize the reapplication of spells, with their original parameters and correct durations. However to give you an idea there's still quite a few things to do before achieveing a roughly seamless server transition :

• spell usage, spells used in server 1 should still be used up on server 2
• feats with uses per day usage (same logic as above)
• temporary item properties transfer (flame weapon, magic vestment, etc)
• linked creatures (companion, familiar, summons, packhorse)
• HP ratio
• probably other things I didn't think about (you're most welcome to indicate such things)

It will not be perfect due to some limitations but it should be rather minor. Other than that there's the teleportation system to adapt and some things to try out for cross server chat.

[Steve]

RE: other things

What about being Partied, and Server transitions? DM shouts...falls under Chat issues I could guess?

Anyway, nice job Monsieur Wizard!!

[Valefort]

Parties will have to be formed again when switching servers, DM shouts fall under chat system indeed.

[Rasael]

You might be able to record the party setup before the transition and use that information to reconstruct it as each player joins. So that it's rejoined automatically.
As long as each player carries a full list of current party members you can add them back in party automatically.

The exception is that you'd not want that to happen more than half an hour later. So it needs a timestamp.

[Valefort]

True enough, I'll focus on things that cannot be done by players first though, the list is already long enough

[Kerien]

Suggestion: Could all the high level chests give at least 3-digit ammount of gold? Did clear the bone dragon in vaults this morning and all i gat from two of the chests was 40g and a garnet.. say 423 gold would feel more rewarding than basicly an empty chest. Not all need to have epics but the current (when your luck is as bad as mine) feels a bit letdown. The increase shouldnt be high enough to affect anything but you could say the highlevel and low level 40g chests from one another easily.

[Lambe]

Did you take class into consideration when assigning levels to challenge ratings? We all know levels are not a blanket gauge across all class builds. What's easy for one build is already extremely hard for another, even in a party, especially at their appropriate level. Should they be rewarded more/less?

[gedweyignasia]

Suggestion: Could all the high level chests give at least 3-digit ammount of gold? Did clear the bone dragon in vaults this morning and all i gat from two of the chests was 40g and a garnet.. say 423 gold would feel more rewarding than basicly an empty chest. Not all need to have epics but the current (when your luck is as bad as mine) feels a bit letdown. The increase shouldnt be high enough to affect anything but you could say the highlevel and low level 40g chests from one another easily.

The loot is variable, but in the long run you should get your fair share. There will be good days and there will be bad days, but there should be fewer bad days when you loot at your own level now.

Did you take class into consideration when assigning levels to challenge ratings? We all know levels are not a blanket gauge across all class builds. What's easy for one build is already extremely hard for another, even in a party, especially at their appropriate level. Should they be rewarded more/less?

No, class is not taken into consideration. Loot is awarded similar to how quickly you'll level up from combat. It is up to players to decide if they want to powerbuild or build for RP. If you RP a character who is less suited to combat, it may be appropriate to bring some extra muscle with you when heading to dangerous areas.

[Kerien]

The loot is variable, but in the long run you should get your fair share. There will be good days and there will be bad days, but there should be fewer bad days when you loot at your own level now.

I would prefer the 3-digit just to be able to identify "this area is too low for you" from "you have bad luck". Also would help to spot if there is any chests / loot that is on "wrong" level rating.. but they were all fixed now?

Pretty much something that would not change the ammount of money/loot generated, but identify the chests. Like a minor buff to high level low loot chests, getting 120 gold instead of 40 would not break the economy, but you can more easily end up with the idea that you are unlucky instead of wondering if you should be here.

[gedweyignasia]

The XP you get should tell you if the chests are appropriate for your character. If killing something gives you less XP than usual, the chests are also giving less loot.

[zhazz]

The XP you get should tell you if the chests are appropriate for your character. If killing something gives you less XP than usual, the chests are also giving less loot.

That only applies to characters below level 30 though. Once you hit level 30, and the "buffer" beyond it, you stop gaining XP. Maxed charactes won't be able to tell other than by the drops they get. Over time it will of course be revealed what zones are appropriate, if one keeps track of what drops in each zone, but unlike the XP method before max level there is no clear-cut way to identify it. Not to mention it is a big ask to have every player memorize the appropriate zones, rather than just have a convenient indicator.

Don't get me wrong, I think that this is a step in the right direction. I do believe, however, that providing easy-to-understand feedback to players through gameplay is important.

Perhaps down the line something similar to what was done on Sigil could be here. A method for players to change the difficulty of a zone to increase drops and experience gained. From what I remember it was possibly to add up to +5 CR to a zone, for a +75% bonus to XP and Gold, with said increase in CR adding new and more dangerous monsters, as well as bigger packs of them.

Not saying that the Sigil approach is the right one, but it did allow for customization for the player experience, and expanded the appropriate level ranges to open up more areas for high-level play, while rewarding low-level players for taking a risk.

Anyway. That was a tangent.

Looking forward to do some mapping of the treasure drops. And hopefully without needing a full party for each and every area

[Kerien]

I do believe, however, that providing easy-to-understand feedback to players through gameplay is important.

This is what I was trying to say! Feedback without changing the system. I think the new system is good but the feedback loop is lacking.

Also, it seems that skeletons and boxes that are not "locked" still give loot. Like the nashkell hillside, there is two skeletons that give loot and one chest (that doesnt, at least i think). Then it just leaves you wonder if it works or not as intented. Not a serious problem, but it does leave you wonder untill you loot enough to learn what chests are what. Clear feedback would be better and leave less room for confusion -> makes it feel better. Chests giving 3-digit money as min. was just a suggestion how to differentiate "out level" with "bad luck" without changin the rewards from the chest so that they are more profitable. Well, they are, but one better roll that gives say 800g instead of 120g min would overweight the "small 3-digit" bad rolls by enough of a margin to not have an effect in the economy (still have the low level chests give the sub 100g they do now)

[gedweyignasia]

There is a list of areas by CR if that helps? Giving players more granular feedback just leads to people trying to see what the most efficient way to lootgrind below their level is. We want you to play at your own CR.

[Snarfy]

It is up to players to decide if they want to powerbuild or build for RP. If you RP a character who is less suited to combat, it may be appropriate to bring some extra muscle with you when heading to dangerous areas.

And therein lies the rub: having to find others to "adventure" with just to find a bit of treasure. While I totally appreciate all the hard work you guys do(for reals, all you green name dorks are the best), I'm not going to lie... I don't like the loot rebalance.

Admittedly, there is certainly something about to be said about the original format, and how one could run a series of low level dungeons in 20 minutes and make 20 - 30k in gold after selling. It was bonkers how much gold a character could make. And while I do like the premise of balancing the loot tables, I'm not so sure that this implementation of the rebalance is the remedy for that.

As far as I can tell, the CR appropriate model basically favors either:
A. Group play... which is great(?), assuming one can find a group of IC'ly compatible, and level compatible characters to group with, and also assuming that everyone is inclined towards grouping up to dungeon run.
B. The aforementioned powerbuilds... who were able to mulch through CR appropriate zones all alone before, and they'll still be able to do just that.
And C. Sneaks, to a certain extent, and it will also be business as usual for them... just tip-toe past the stuff that will clobber you, and yoink away(I say this because my sneak is really the only one of my epic toons that isn't really feeling the pinch).

Speaking as a player who has a small heap of level 30's now(none of which would be classified as a powerbuild), and also speaking as someone whose characters do not indulge in seeking out groups to go on loot runs... there was something cathartic about being able to just log on and take a stroll through any dungeon that struck my fancy, and search for a few cool trinkets to hock. Having to go through the rigmarole of seeking out "muscle", or the oft-arduous task of finding IC'ly compatible characters(and/or players... yep, I said it) to go find a bit of loot while I'm on one of my level 30's just doesn't appeal to me at all. Going dungeon'ing is fun, and finding treasure is fun, but not when potential zergsters are involved.

And while I am still able to go solo to any low level dungeon I want, I feel like there's a lot less incentive to visit anything below my characters' CR, as I enjoyed finding those auction-able items that I could dump on Mudd and make dirt cheap for someone else, or find those hilarious oddities, or even those damned cursed items that forced my anti-social arse to grumble my way over to CK to ask for a curse removal. Heck, it was enjoyable for me to just plod through a low level dungeon on my archmage in search of books for his collection, but now? 24gp... 31gp... 27gp... ehh, yawn. This feels very static to me, and certainly doesn't really help in terms of immersion. ¯\_("/)_/¯

[chad878262]

I think this will end up being much ado about nothing, for now. I have tested some areas and will continue to do so in the coming days/weeks, but thus far outside of a couple anomalies things are more than generous. The purpose here is of course to encourage grouping up because the loot will be *BETTER* in higher CR areas (you know...all those complaints over the years about killing the Frost Giant King for a bit of dirty dishes). Thus far in my testing, I have taken a level 17 PC to CR 7-12 areas and the loot was fine. Perhaps the CR7/8 areas loot was somewhat reduced, but not noticeably so. What was noticeable was the loot in the CR 10-12 areas was actually better than what was acquired in the 7-9 CR's.

Likewise I took a level 30 through Hilltop and while chests loot was low (as expected and designed), you still do get boss/mob drops and non-chest lootables that have a small chance of giving something worth 1,400 at your local Blunt the Basic shop. Meanwhile going to CR 14-20 and doing all of those area's with a level 30 gave anything from just ~80 gold or so in chests to decent items (ie vendor trash), depending which dungeon you are in.

I haven't yet had the opportunity to get in to the real fun stuff, going to CR27+ area's to see if the loot is noticeably different and (woe is me) I imagine I'll have to test many times to get an appropriate view of things. However, if anything I think the 2nd iteration of changes may be too lenient, but we shall see. Best to take things slow to ensure we don't end up like a pendulum.

Just my two cents, based on a few hours testing. More to come, but I urge everyone to just go out and try the content before making assumptions that the PvE / Looting experience is somehow ruined.