Banning and Player Treatment

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athornforyourheart
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Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by athornforyourheart »

Hello Bg Community,

**I will be removing this post in 24-48 hours, or possibly moderators will before that, I am unsure if any of this is in violation of forum etiquette but I feel this post is justified after recent events on the forum**

***personally, I am sorry to have become the long rant guy and beating a dead horse over player to player treatment.

Yes, it is athornforyourheart here again with another drab posting about "change." And while this there is a thread about the current term "toxic" I would choose not to post this there as I do not with to deter that conversation into a directionless rant. The topic:

viewtopic.php?f=136&t=75590

certainly has merit and worth a good read and in the spirit of change - I will attempt to change my use of the word, both in this post and in the future. Else how I can advocate for player to player change and better respect if I myself am not able to do the same?

Because a majority of you are not aware of what conspired in the forums yesterday I will take a moment briefly catch you all up. Disclaimer: THIS is NOT to promote bad behavior but to analyze it and learn from it.

Last night a player who is no longer active here logged in and found an older post that I had made sometime last month (my temporary retirement from media team) and attempted to slander my personal character and reputation on this server. Things were said and I will post, leaving out the name:

Image

Yes I was banned in 2014 for cheating. I exploited a mechanical bug. But as the rumor train would have it... my ban was based off an entirely completely different thing because that's just how the rumor train works. The horrible rumor train that some people actually enjoy riding. I've always been quiet about my ban, its certainly not my grand moment. In fact, when I returned I had simply hoped it would have remained in the past and I was always hopeful that I could show the community here that a person could in fact change. That NOBODY is ever beholden to things they've done in the past. Being banned does NOT MAKE YOU A HORRIBLE PERSON. Actions are singular, a pattern of bad behavior certainly leads to you bad choices in life - I understand this concept. But nobody on this server/game/life is ever non redeemable from being a better person.

Considering my post was about "Bad Player Behavior" the person felt the need to continue:

Image

I know not everyone shares this thought. I know for a fact there are many people who have had their bans lifted in the past and actually ride the straight arrow these days. Know that if you were ever banned from the forums or the game itself for bad behavior or mechanical issues, its not the end of you. The server administrators know and understand each situation is different.

The weight and complexity of your issue matters a lot here. I truly believe that players who sexually harass &/or stalk other players are/should be removed immediately because this condones a behavior that extends beyond the game itself. This is a real life crime and issue that leads to worse crimes. Crimes that I feel need not be written or discussed further.

Whereas there are those that use a mechanical exploit. I honestly find this to be hardly condemning of ones real life take on ethics. When I was banned, I got my fair share of hate from players. Players, that do this day, are still around. Most of them just let me be - some of them I've befriended. But there will now and again be the "the one" who refuse to ever acknowledge you again. Like in this case: " you are a cheater, therefore, untrustworthy, don't care how good you are."

As someone who ran a Professional Art Team studio I can certainly tell you one of my interviewing questions was never "Have you ever cheated on a video game?"

Hell, I'll make it simpler. "Have you ever cheated in general?

Have you ever, when playing any board game with your family - moved a piece where it shouldn't? Perhaps exaggerated a dice roll? Not because you wanted to destroy the other person or were that hung up on winning, but you understood its just a game? And before anyone can say "Well this is different..." Yes, I know it is, this is online and we aren't amongst family or friends that, if caught, would get you in good and funny moment of "aye! you cheater!"

No, this game is serious. What you do in this game certainly must tell a person who you are in real life. At least, some people believe this to be true. I know there is mixed opinions on the matter and while some will agree and some will not, the question remains - does it mean you are bad person incapable of change?

I continue:

Image

Again, this stems to what someone may have thought they understood about my ban and took it for what they believe is the truth. THIS is how the bad behavior continues. By openly going around and shaming / humiliating fellow players ((and in this case, someone who no longer plays)). I don't even know this person who wrote this.... that's how bad the rumor train goes here. Never played with them or shared a single word with them.

Image

I understand the point. Let's not make light of the situation. I assure you, I have not made light of it at all. When I left the server, I didn't leave with two middle fingers pointed upward. The "Big Long Blubbering Apology Post" that the person speaks of is a post I made about cheating and the severity of it. I was the example and with good reason. I had thought I was doing something a bit more honorable than saying "Screw you BG, im out." But I actually did feel bad and had remorse for my actions back then.

I carried this on my back for a while. I became the bad guy. It took me a LONG time to remove that feeling from my shoulder.... at least, until last night. When this happened. I am simply reminded, that change is not possible here for someone who once cheated.

WHAT DID YOU DO TO GET YOUR BAN LIFTED?

I approached the team in 2016-2017 to start making content for the server. Yes, at first, my initial approach was to redeem myself to the staff and players. Prove that I wasn't the selfish kid that I was when I all those years ago. I had my son, a good job, and life was improving for me... I was improving, for me. The team accepted me back in and for the next 2 years I learned to use Blender. I learned to make content for this game with little to no online help or tutorials. My horrible faces pack of 2017 was my 1st venture into that and the learning curve at that time showed if you compared to what I do now. I did this, for the community with no expectation or hopes of coming back to the server. People at the time in media team and staff were aware of this. The admin was aware of this.

After 2 and half years of creating content and working on things, I was finally approached by various staff to petition for my return to the server. Even then, I was hesitant. I didn't feel I deserved to come back yet. I didn't feel some people have forgotten about or would forgive the past. So I refused.. and continued working toward making more content.

It wasn't until a few months after that that I realized "Why am I making content? To make up to players that I am a selfless person? Was I that bad of a person to begin with?" No. Simply put, no. I've never been a bad person in life. I've never been to jail for some outstanding crime. My worst offense is damn seat belt ticket. I've never been a man with questionable morals IRL, I've never had deep routed enemies in life. It took a close friend and confidant to give me clarity on the matter. I made a mistake in a video game and the ban was the punishment. (not being able to enjoy the fun with other players that I had let down at the time). Making content for the game should never be considered a repayment or "a fine" or some sort of damages done. Hell, I served combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and fought for my country and even then, I've never felt the need to justify myself as much as I did here, on this server.

So... I finally decided to stop punishing myself and move forward. Create things for a community that I actually cared to be in. I forgave myself because yes, it is just a video game and I know for A FACT what I did was NOT of my character, but just a moment - nothing more, nothing less.

WHY THIS LONG RANT?

Because I felt publicly shamed and humiliated. Yes, it was cleaned up by our our moderators who I am so freaking grateful of but when it happened.. it triggered me bad. I couldn't stop shaking and I ended up removing myself immediately from the discord and staff discord because I was already getting flooded with PM's about the matter. And though most were kind and respectful and saying "not to let it get to me...", it did. Among those PM's were the few "So, what happened? What were you banned for anyway?" As if I wanted to relive that moment again.

WONT THIS PUT YOUR BAN ON NOTICE AGAIN?

Yes. Because I am officially done with trying. My public post of removing myself from the media team was to try and use whatever position I could to put awareness of player to player attitudes. It was the only thing I felt I had that I could do to make a positive change. A difference. When a player leaves the server in general, its usually with words of "Here's what you all need to do... and change."

But often time's nothing ever happens. I didn't expect much to happen with my leaving of the team because a) you all still have LivT - the other content creator and b) Some just don't care enough to want to change for the better. They'll make public posts about it and agree and say "yes" but deep down have no desire to do so.

Even in these last few days while I was "retired" I was still secretly making content to put into the game (some people are aware of this). Yes, my leaving was for real but a small part of me wanted to at least create minor content for player enjoyment. And while I know this "person" who posted these horrible things about me was only 1 person - I honestly feel he wasn't of one mind. There are in fact people out there who almost want to destroy other's because this game belongs to them and you need their permission to play it.

ANYWAY...

that was my rant... YET AGAIN. I hate having to constantly do this... and I shouldn't. So I have deleted the game from my computer. No, people who may still despise me from 2014, this does not mean you win and I give up. I can easily re download the game in case I need to log in and help a player move and item or pass something along. I refuse to allow myself to be bullied out of a video game. But I will take a moment to remove myself from the issue so that I may have some headspace. I will be taking a month or two off and re-evaluate from there. I'd ASK those who are ever caught in moments like this, to do the same... because the longer you linger and struggle to enjoy yourself there's a possibility you'll become destructive along the way. And while I know I'm not ruining anyone's fun here (as i was the one attacked), I will take the lead on what I preach and do this.

WHAT MAY HAPPEN?

Honestly, the removal of this post perhaps. Perhaps a "Sweep it under the rug" approach with a statement of "Here are the rules guys" and "it's not that bad, we are all friend here right?" With love and respect to the powers that be... sometimes the "Hey, lets all just get along" statement doesn't always apply as a "the fix" to every problem. Personally, I feel it is this approach that has allowed some bigger issues to exist. Because when big issues are not addressed properly or mid-diagnosed, they continue to fester for lack of mistreatment.

I apologize for the huge rant and hopefully you might have done me a huge honor of reading it all but JUST REMEMBER PLEASE. A Ban is not a life sentence and end of ones character. You can change and learn from it.
Last edited by athornforyourheart on Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Alexander Holgart
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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by Alexander Holgart »

I don't know if I should be answering to this, given that it will probably disappear into the void but I will do it anyway.

Because I want to show some support to you.

I will be brief, I find it almost unreal that we are making such of a deal out of a ban for cheating happened so long ago, in a RP videogame.

I believe that you gave back to the server much more than what any cheating might have subtracted, your ban made you realize that it was not a good choice to do it. You came back and you have been selfless in giving out content for everyone to use and enjoy.

Just wanted to show my support, that's all.

Be well and happy!
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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by Ariella »

There's no point paying any mind to that sorta attitude. Odds are in a couple of years they will see or think of that post and realize just how immature they had been, something we likely all do when considering mistakes made in the past. Regardless of what you had done your contributions to BG and the NwN2 community as a whole are undeniable, we are certainly better off with you around past mistakes and all.
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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by izzul »

we will still be in pixelated looking like minecraft NWN1EE outfits if it weren't for your 2016-2021 of 6 years effort to learn Blendr

alway see the positive in people above past things and their repentance. even god can accept our repentance. :pray:
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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by Deathgrowl »

Wow, good gracious. What revolting things to say to someone. Particularly that jab about hiring you and then finding you untrustworthy? Whoever this is, isn't worth your time and energy, man.
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KOPOJIbPAKOB
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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by KOPOJIbPAKOB »

I totally support you making this post, Jude. It's a huge part of the server's culture, sweeping things under the rug, as you mentioned in the end. Publically speaking your mind is frowned upon, you're expected to pretend the conflict situations around you don't happen. Posts like this really should be let be, the honest revelations. Problems and grudges don't magically vanish if you pretend they don't exist.

I've known you for some time and you always react painfully to any blame, hate or disrespect towards you or your work. For example, if there's a hundred people praising you and just one treating you like a customer service that owes them, you won't rest for days because of the latter, you've always been like this. I don't know if I'm being helpful pointing it out, just saying you've always been too harsh to yourself. Your supporters outnumber your haters maybe 100x fold if not more.

I didn't know part of it is your old guilt about the ban, though. To me, it by no means makes you a worse person. It doesn't change anything. Your ban ended, you're not doing anything fishy since, and that should be the end of that story. It doesn't matter what happened then, what matters is what you are now, and you are the local legend, becoming such through years of dedication to this place. You left a huge legacy that hardly any content creator can compete with.

To jump on the #MeToo train here... I, myself, was banned twice. Both were PvP-related cases, the first ban was fair, the second wasn't (and, I guess, I might have not been banned twice if I wasn't so snappy back then). Later I've become BG's content creator, and by no means my past bans make my content worse, or change community's opinion about me (I hope!). Your guilt should end where your ban ended. You shouldn't carry it through all these years.

This thread will clearly have only support and love for you, and that's because the community means it. It's not organized or anything... they show the same support even in calmer, uneventful days. Like many others, I really wish you all the best and ease of mind <3
Last edited by KOPOJIbPAKOB on Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by Jepop »

I've been around for a while and I have seen this game grow into the amazing world that it is today and I have to say you are a big part of that growth. The good you have brought into this server far out weighs whatever petty actions you committed years ago. Just my two cents. Thank you for the content.
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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by Lux »

Don't know you myself but chiming in with people being supportive here. Whatever reason this person felt that they had to speak to you this way it doesn't excuse them being an arse to you. I hope your break is good for you and that you feel better in time.
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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by Maecius »

Harassment and bullying will not be tolerated here. If you have issues with another player, talk it out with them directly and privately. Don't try to run them over in a public forum or by slander and gossip.

I debated removing this post with the forum moderators and admins, since it does sort of turn the leaf back on the other person after they've already been banned (and two wrongs rarely ever make a right), but we have decided against it for now as long as nobody is directly called out or attacked.

Personally, I am sorry you were attacked over such ancient history though.
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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by whatsittoya »

I want to believe that there's more lurking behind such egregiously resentful comments and that no person on this planet genuinely thinks that cheating at a video game actually warrants being made a permanent pariah not just from that particular game's community but from real life employment opportunities as well. Doubly so when incidents are separated by years.

There's something unresolved here.
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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by EasternCheesE »

1) Banned 7 years ago
2) Made tons of great rp and tons of good things for server after being allowed to be back.
3) People still whining.

If that's not a true example of "People change and rethink what they did", then, i think, that offending party is really lost in the past or dislike you for their own reasons and "cheating episode" 7 years ago is just an excuse to have some "legal" right to offend you.
And it really more pictures a person who's eager to blame your for 7 year old mistake, rather then you yourself.

I myself never heard of you being ever banned and, honestly, from all i saw what you did and do, i would never even think that ever happened to you. Like "This guy makes a ton of good things and it seems he enjoys his rp over gold and stuff, why would he cheat?"
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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by Steve »

athornforyourheart wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:09 pm And while this there is a thread about the current term "toxic" I would choose not to post this there as I do not with to deter that conversation into a directionless rant. The topic:

viewtopic.php?f=136&t=75590

certainly has merit and worth a good read and in the spirit of change - I will attempt to change my use of the word, both in this post and in the future.
@athorn:

Thank you for writing this post explaining your thoughts on matters personal and public with BGTSCC.

I myself remember your ages-ago-cheating and banning, I too agree that everyone deserves a chance for redemption, if they seek it.

It is obvious you have achieved that, and more.

I also want to say that if you considered my post on labeling and “toxicity” an indirect, personal attack toward you, I can assure you it was not personal. I am aware that you used the term “toxic” often, even most recently in your retirement post. I hope you can understand that my own personal request to end THE WAY we label, consider and unintentionally denigrate something we ACTUALLY care about, is not about just individuals, it is about and for the community.

If anything, I am interested in changing habits, not people. People change themselves...through changing habits. And it is always a choice, not a demand.

Lastly, whether it matters or not coming from me, I sincerely hope you arrive at a better place, in relation to BGTSCC, now that you are distancing yourself from it, temporarily or permanently. Though it should be obvious, I’ll say it again from my perspective: your efforts have left BGTSCC better than before.

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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by bharring »

So is this a decent TLDR:

-Person A did shitty thing, long ago
-Person A atoned, long ago
-Person A now has a long, established pattern of being decidedly non-shitty
-Person B sees the mote in Person A's eye, declares Person A obviously a shitty person, throws the first stone, and criticizes the community for not having done so?

That's enough to form an opinion about which I'd rather be in a community with.
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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by cosmic ray »

What a horrible attitude to have over a "victimless crime". :roll:
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Re: Banning and Player Treatment

Unread post by Tekill »

I'm going to try and not be sarcastic here:

Douchy people are making mean comments on the internet!? OMG! When did this start happening!?!?!?

Nope...that was sarcastic- I failed. Sorry.

We should call them out for being dirty (good job by OP). But we should not be offended by it.

People suck. And they suck more while on the internet. It should not be shocking or upsetting at this point.
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