Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2021)

[mrm3ntalist]

Why no one is trying better builds? A lot of shit are going on star citizen but I might be able to make a couple of videos of how op this prc is during this weekend. I have two characters with stored xp to go to 30

YYA is correct though. The damage and armor should work only in medium heavy armor. We have many prcs and can already do crazy builds. It’s ok if new prcs are very limited.

Valefort I will need that weapon

[Rhifox]

I'd prefer it restricted to Medium and Heavy armor, too. Light armor is already way too encouraged on BG, IMO.

[DaloLorn]

I'd prefer it restricted to Medium and Heavy armor, too. Light armor is already way too encouraged on BG, IMO.

Yeah, this class actually really encourages DEX right now. Making its AC buff only work with medium or heavier armor, or at least preventing it from working with padded armor, would make it more of a tradeoff between maxing out your AC and maxing out your damage.

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

It seems that the only remaining niche for the class is slow and chunky Fighter with shield + sword. For all other builds Dervish would simply do CoC's job better. Swash synergy was removed, the class requirements won't let you build a proper Dex tank with Epic dodge + Uncanny dodge. I like the concept, just a shame it was overnerfed so hard. And just to think some people were suggesting to nerf it harder.

[YYA]

EDM Fighter 12 / Paladin 4 / Anointed Knight 4 / CoC 10. Or Fighter 8 / Paladin 4 / Divine Champion 6 / CoC 10. No need to overthink it.

Yes you do. No Paladins of Corellon Larethian as people have said. So, you can go for a very similar EDM build, with the addition of the Divine Shield, and the ability to use all Clerical scrolls without resorting to UMD... by using the following build:

Fighter 12/Cleric 3 [Domains: Good (Fear Immunity), War (Free Weapon Focus Longsword)]/Divine Champion 5/Champion of Corellon Larethian 10. It doesn't really matter which of the allowed elven subraces you choose from, but the ones with +2 to dexterity tend to be better. You do not have to go all in on Dexterity, you just pump it up high enough to get the most out of the armor of your choice.

So let us have a look at the AB:
29 (BAB)
+ 4 (Weapon Enchantment Bonus)
+ 4 (Epic Weapon Focus)
+ 2 (Melee Weapon Mastery)
+ 1 (Epic Prowess)
+ 7 (Strength modifier, base 21 with +3 from Belt of Growth)
+ 2 (Wrath of Corellon)
+ 3 (Divine Wrath)
= 52 (Which pumps up to 60 with AB bonus from that Scroll of Divine Power, 61 when you consider the strength increase as well, which you can do without a single point spent in UMD -- you just need the scroll, etc.)

As for the Damage:
1d8 (Long Sword)
+ 4 (Weapon Enchantment Bonus)
+ 4 (Epic Weapon Specialziaztion)
+ 2 (Melee Weapon Mastery)
+ 7 (Strength Modifier)
+ 4 (Dexterity modifier +3 Item, Wood Elf with Starting ability scores of: STR 16, DEX 15, Con 9, INT 13, WIS 8, CHA 16)
+ 3 (Divine Wrath)
+ 2d6 (Corellon's Wrath)
+ 14 (Epic Divine MIght)
= 49.5~

And as for that AC:
10 (Base)
+ 8 (Mithral Full Plate)
+ 3 (Dexterity from Mithral Full Plate)
+ 4 (Armor Enchantment from Bracers)
+ 4 (Deflection Enchantment from Ring/Hat/Cloak)
+ 4 (Dodge Enchantment from Boots)
+ 4 (Tower Shield)
+ 4 (Shield Enchantment from shield or Wand)
+ 3 (Superior Defense)
+ 1 (Tumble 10 ranks, +3 if you spend a feat for it)
+ 6 (Improved Combat Expertise)
+ 7 (Divine Shield)
= 58

Now, when it comes to playing an EDM build, you will not have these numbers up 24/7, but you do not always need to, which allows you to meet the demand at your own leisure.

It seems that the only remaining niche for the class is slow and chunky Fighter with shield + sword.

Because that is literally the whole concept of the PRC, an elven Knight:



The above imagine is from that source book, Races of the Wild, which introduced the whole PRC in the first place.

For all other builds Dervish would simply do CoC's job better. Swash synergy was removed, the class requirements won't let you build a proper Dex tank with Epic dodge + Uncanny dodge. I like the concept, just a shame it was overnerfed so hard. And just to think some people were suggesting to nerf it harder.

As it stands, you get that Superior Defense AC bonus even in light armor... So nothing stops you from creating a build such as: "Fighter 8/Dervish 7/Tempest 5/Champion of Corellon Larethian 10" -- which would get +7 points of AC from its PRCs. (2 from Tempest, +2 from Dervish, and +3 from Champion of Corellon Larethian.) The PRC requirements overlap, etc. The +4 Damage and AB from Dervish dance applies to both hands, and if you go for Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, it still short of the maximum dexterity damage cap that Champion of Corellon Larethian has.

---

And when it comes to restricting the Superiod Defense to Medium and Heavy Armor, because it says so in the PnP source material, Mithral Banded Mails and Full Plates have an Armor Check Penalty of just -3 -- which is just one point highter than what a low level rogue might suffer when wearing a chain shirt. In otherwords, full Dexterity, stealth based Champions of Corellon Larethian can still sneak about. They are just wearing a lore appropriate armor while doing so.

[mrm3ntalist]

It seems that the only remaining niche for the class is slow and chunky Fighter with shield + sword. For all other builds Dervish would simply do CoC's job better. Swash synergy was removed, the class requirements won't let you build a proper Dex tank with Epic dodge + Uncanny dodge. I like the concept, just a shame it was overnerfed so hard. And just to think some people were suggesting to nerf it harder.

Overnerfed? Wow

It’s better than dervish, in any way you see it - same ac, constant damage from dex, bonus feat, burst 2d6.

What surprises me that not one here mentioned the build, that in my view, breaks it

I beginning to doubt myself now … is that a bad thing doc?

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

It seems that the only remaining niche for the class is slow and chunky Fighter with shield + sword. For all other builds Dervish would simply do CoC's job better. Swash synergy was removed, the class requirements won't let you build a proper Dex tank with Epic dodge + Uncanny dodge. I like the concept, just a shame it was overnerfed so hard. And just to think some people were suggesting to nerf it harder.

Overnerfed? Wow

It’s better than dervish, in any way you see it - same ac, constant damage from dex, bonus feat, burst 2d6.

What surprises me that not one here mentioned the build, that in my view, breaks it

I beginning to doubt myself now … is that a bad thing doc?

Well,
1) Dervish provides the same +2d6 damage boost that would last the same as well, except it's 3 charges instead of 5 min cooldown, but in a nutshell it's roughly the same.
2) Dervish's damage is not constant (10 min between rests in summary), but its bonus is much stronger since it also boosts AB, and +6 Elegant strike bonus is like the max you'll get anyway (you'll need to sacrifice strength damage to go for +10).
3) 1 bonus feat is nice, but Dervish gives 4 of them, these feats let you qualify for other prestige classes, like Thief Acrobat, Weaponmaster or Tempest. In other words, Dervish greatly synergizes with other prestige classes, CoC doesn't. But if you don't plan to add any feat-expensive classes, then CoC's bonus feat is indeed better.

Add here that Dervish provides more skillpoints and has more liberal requirements. In PvE, I suppose they're more or less on par, with CoC winning in quality of life. In PvP, Dervish is undoubtedly way stronger. I'm not saying that the current CoC is bad, just a class that performs a little worse than Dervish in its niche. There could be CoC specific niches that Dervish can't fill, but they got killed before the release, which is the part that upsets me.

Also, what is this build that would break it?

[mrm3ntalist]

So basically you are saying that are about the same. So how is it overnerfed exactly. I guess everyone is used to getting to 60 ac, improved evasion, 45+ AB etc

As far as the build that I have in mind you are going to have to see it to believe it. I don’t have the time to go back and forth with people that do not want to see the obvious. Unless of course there is something that I am totally missing ( doubtful ). Anyway if I manage to complete the star citizen event early I might try it tonight

[YYA]

What surprises me that not one here mentioned the build, that in my view, breaks it

People have different preferences, and people tend to make their character builds based on the said preferences. So perhaps you should just mention that build of yours so we could discuss if it really breaks the server or not.

[Steve]

Well shit. Damn Elves and their Chaotic Good deities. Correllon does have the Following of the Forgotten Flower which is said to have priests and crusaders as members, but alas...what is in a name?!?!

[YYA]

Ah, how about a Barbarian 20/Champion of Corellon Larethian 10, spend a feat to grab that Heavy Armor Proficiency, and you are good to go. Whirlwind Frenzy for Dodge AC on top of the armor gained from Ice-Troll Berserker. You get that +3 Superior Defense boost, extra dexterity based damage on top of your Rage boost Strength modifier. Works well with both Wood and Wild Elves as the race of choice, from a role-playing perspective.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

NWN1 familiars could travel away from their master's map, allowing scenarios such as the master researching things in a library while their familiar wandered around and RPed. IIRC, this is not currently possible on BG. Will that be changing?

NWN2 doesn't support creature possession / control area decoupling like NWN1. It can be emulated in the form of creating a NPC duplicate of the player to remain in place with perceived message forwarding, while the player is moved to a haven, immortal flag, imperceptible, and the familiar processed continues it's path.

[Anchor]

Very nice! More ways to add flavor and customize!

[YYA]

Fighter 4/Wizard 6/Bladesinger 10/Champion of Corellon Larethian 10...

10 Base
+ 10 (Mithral Breast Plate)
+ 5 (Bladesinger AC)
+ 3 (Superior Defense)
+ 6 (Improved Mage Armor)
+ 4 (Shield Spell)
+ 4 (Natural Armor Amulet)
+ 4 (Deflection Ring)
+ 4 (Dodge Boots)
+ 6 (Improved Combat Expertise)
+ 3 (Tumble)
= 59

You get Concealment, Mirror Images, you get to sit in a Cloudkill while protected by Stone Body. You can go for some Every point in dexterity gives AB and Damage with a rapier, and Combat Insight helps you get few points of extra damage over low strength score.

[mrm3ntalist]

PTWF WM Champion of Corellon