Archmage Suggestion

[Lockonnow]

And the Archmage prc have a isusus with the arcane ray it wont alow you to use 2 items in the hands while you use Arcane ray on 2 boss so far my Arch Sorcerer it will not work and so it is with my Arch wizard it wont work any way why bother

[YYA]

This is just poor, AM is one of the few PRCs that don't require someone to take such drastic measure, perhaps the only one for DC casters.

One man's poor role-play is high class in the eyes of another. Always has been, always will be. And having a character with secrets is not a drastic measure, because followers of Shar are supposed to spread Shar's corruption, and preaching on the street corner rarely gets the job done right. As for Red Wizards, well, once in server history the Red Wizards waged war against the city, etc, etc, so if one wishes to play one that is not on the leash of the guild, once again, there are better ways to live by than proudly declaring that you are a rogue Red Wizard.

As for Archmage, unless one is seeking apprentices, being a secret Arch Mage does have its perks too. After all, if you are just a campfire peddler of cheap trinkets and tricks, none will come dragging you to fight off balors and red dragons, allowing you to focus on things that truly matter, such as brewing that leaf soup around the fire and adjusting your spell book selection to have a spell for every situation.

In any case the reduction of a 10 lvl prc to 5 is undeniably a buff, that is for sure. But we are talking about one extra epic feat compared to what you can already get with the way things are. My point is that nothing insane will come out of this. The things mages are doing today won't change, perhaps in pvp since a more bulkier mage can be built but if pvp was the main balance for the server then all is lost anyway lol

If you want the highest DC possible, you often have to give up something in order to acquire it, and sometimes that something could be an Epic Spell. After the the suggested change: you either get to keep your current DC as it were in addition to the Epic Spell you did not have before, or you might be able to boost your spell DCs even higher.

And speaking of things, how nothing inside will come out of it, Spirit Shaman 9 gives you access to Blood Magic feat. You might not need the levels in the Spirit Shaman class if you can convince the DMs to give you the 'Magical Discovery' feat for free, but the odds of that happening can be either lower or higher. Thus, best we focus on taking those nine levels of Spirit Shaman as the default standard. Thus, let us imagine the following build: Wizard 6/Spirit Shaman 9/Shadow Adept 10/Archmage 5. You should be a caster level 21 Wizard, but Practiced Spell Caster is +4 caster levels, and then you turn on your Blood Magic for another +4 (in both spell books), and you sit at caster level of 29. Then you factor in the +3 from Archmage, and the total of +7 from Shadow Adept, which totals at the caster level of 39 in your offensive schools of spells. Add in any Spell Penetration from an item and you can easily disregard enemy Spell Resistance. But, when it comes to Epic Caster level bonus, your caster level only amounts to 31, thus a mere +3 bonus, however, you still got the +4 DCs from Blood Magic itself, and the +2 from being a Shadow Weave user to a grand total of +9. Not to mention that it is a situation where you could go for Spirit Shaman 10 without actually dropping your spell DCs and gaining access to Restoration on Demand, etc. And now that I think of it, you would only need Archmage 3...

And frankly speaking, with Free RCR periods and what not, I must ask if people still level up their characters from scratch, because the most obvious and glaring change brought by the suggested Archmage change is to hasten the class ability progression of every other class. Going Archmage 8 tends to push things into the late epics, where as Archmage 4 would allow not only faster build progression, but also the acquisition of additional class abilities. It just simply means that character builds that would have bloomed in the late Epics, might already bloom in low or mid epics. And it will make far stronger Gish builds. After all, why wouldn't someone make a Swashbuckler 6/Wizard 10/Eldritch Knight 10/Archmage 4, with 10+ Intelligence modifier and caster level of 30? Dual wield a pair of daggers with that Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, while getting that +20 and +15 Intelligence modifier to damage, and double Daze per hit on both +5 Daggers in addition to whatever extra properties those might posses? Spell Focus in Transmutation Augment Form and Shapechange, and your Intelligence Modifier can beat the strength modifier of many forms. Spell Focus Conjuration boosts up your summons, and just having a summon around makes things easier. And as for Archmage High Arcana Feats, you get to pick a useful Spell Like Ability, which you would not have gotten before. You sit at 23 BAB, which becomes 26 with Augment Form, and you still get the extra feat.

Every single build with Archmage will simply become objectively better.

And finally, if this change goes in, anyone with Archmage PRC needs a free RCR token. And some players will be unhappy simply because they will have to re-acquire their entire spellbooks, as there are players who desire to posses every single spell out there.

[Dolorof]

This is just poor, AM is one of the few PRCs that don't require someone to take such drastic measure, perhaps the only one for DC casters.

One man's poor role-play is high class in the eyes of another. Always has been, always will be. And having a character with secrets is not a drastic measure, because followers of Shar are supposed to spread Shar's corruption, and preaching on the street corner rarely gets the job done right. As for Red Wizards, well, once in server history the Red Wizards waged war against the city, etc, etc, so if one wishes to play one that is not on the leash of the guild, once again, there are better ways to live by than proudly declaring that you are a rogue Red Wizard.

Just to make it clear, i did not mean it was a bad idea, its just poor related to the options one has while creating a background and developing one PC

[Dolorof]

This is just poor, AM is one of the few PRCs that don't require someone to take such drastic measure, perhaps the only one for DC casters.

One man's poor role-play is high class in the eyes of another. Always has been, always will be. And having a character with secrets is not a drastic measure, because followers of Shar are supposed to spread Shar's corruption, and preaching on the street corner rarely gets the job done right. As for Red Wizards, well, once in server history the Red Wizards waged war against the city, etc, etc, so if one wishes to play one that is not on the leash of the guild, once again, there are better ways to live by than proudly declaring that you are a rogue Red Wizard.

As for Archmage, unless one is seeking apprentices, being a secret Arch Mage does have its perks too. After all, if you are just a campfire peddler of cheap trinkets and tricks, none will come dragging you to fight off balors and red dragons, allowing you to focus on things that truly matter, such as brewing that leaf soup around the fire and adjusting your spell book selection to have a spell for every situation.

In any case the reduction of a 10 lvl prc to 5 is undeniably a buff, that is for sure. But we are talking about one extra epic feat compared to what you can already get with the way things are. My point is that nothing insane will come out of this. The things mages are doing today won't change, perhaps in pvp since a more bulkier mage can be built but if pvp was the main balance for the server then all is lost anyway lol

If you want the highest DC possible, you often have to give up something in order to acquire it, and sometimes that something could be an Epic Spell. After the the suggested change: you either get to keep your current DC as it were in addition to the Epic Spell you did not have before, or you might be able to boost your spell DCs even higher.

And speaking of things, how nothing inside will come out of it, Spirit Shaman 9 gives you access to Blood Magic feat. You might not need the levels in the Spirit Shaman class if you can convince the DMs to give you the 'Magical Discovery' feat for free, but the odds of that happening can be either lower or higher. Thus, best we focus on taking those nine levels of Spirit Shaman as the default standard. Thus, let us imagine the following build: Wizard 6/Spirit Shaman 9/Shadow Adept 10/Archmage 5. You should be a caster level 21 Wizard, but Practiced Spell Caster is +4 caster levels, and then you turn on your Blood Magic for another +4 (in both spell books), and you sit at caster level of 29. Then you factor in the +3 from Archmage, and the total of +7 from Shadow Adept, which totals at the caster level of 39 in your offensive schools of spells. Add in any Spell Penetration from an item and you can easily disregard enemy Spell Resistance. But, when it comes to Epic Caster level bonus, your caster level only amounts to 31, thus a mere +3 bonus, however, you still got the +4 DCs from Blood Magic itself, and the +2 from being a Shadow Weave user to a grand total of +9. Not to mention that it is a situation where you could go for Spirit Shaman 10 without actually dropping your spell DCs and gaining access to Restoration on Demand, etc. And now that I think of it, you would only need Archmage 3...

And frankly speaking, with Free RCR periods and what not, I must ask if people still level up their characters from scratch, because the most obvious and glaring change brought by the suggested Archmage change is to hasten the class ability progression of every other class. Going Archmage 8 tends to push things into the late epics, where as Archmage 4 would allow not only faster build progression, but also the acquisition of additional class abilities. It just simply means that character builds that would have bloomed in the late Epics, might already bloom in low or mid epics. And it will make far stronger Gish builds. After all, why wouldn't someone make a Swashbuckler 6/Wizard 10/Eldritch Knight 10/Archmage 4, with 10+ Intelligence modifier and caster level of 30? Dual wield a pair of daggers with that Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, while getting that +20 and +15 Intelligence modifier to damage, and double Daze per hit on both +5 Daggers in addition to whatever extra properties those might posses? Spell Focus in Transmutation Augment Form and Shapechange, and your Intelligence Modifier can beat the strength modifier of many forms. Spell Focus Conjuration boosts up your summons, and just having a summon around makes things easier. And as for Archmage High Arcana Feats, you get to pick a useful Spell Like Ability, which you would not have gotten before. You sit at 23 BAB, which becomes 26 with Augment Form, and you still get the extra feat.

Every single build with Archmage will simply become objectively better.

And finally, if this change goes in, anyone with Archmage PRC needs a free RCR token. And some players will be unhappy simply because they will have to re-acquire their entire spellbooks, as there are players who desire to posses every single spell out there.

Right so, what would the build look like with archmage 4 as it is today? With just spellpower 2?

[YYA]

The Spirit Shaman build is a PvP build, and thus it would lack the Quickened Spell-like abilities, and innate Spell Resistance might protect enemy casters.

As for the Swashbuckler build, it would not achieve Greater Dispel Immunity. It would not have a spell like ability of your choice.

You can say that these differences are very miniscule and irrelevant, but sometimes it is only the little things that keep you from getting Fugued. It is unlikely, but even at 5% chance a single Greater Dispel could strip every single spell from your character, some players are willing to take that risk, others are not. As for the PvP build, when you are trading spells, doing nothing for one round simply because enemy's spell resistance absorbed your spell can cost you the fight. There are players who want to have as strong characters as they can, and this in and of itself does not make them bad role-players, it is just a matter of personal preference.

As for the change itself, I do not actually care whether it gets implemented or not, I am simply stating a fact that even a one little feat could be something absolutely massive in the sense of pure mechanical power. After all, there is a night and day difference whenever any Rogue build first gains its ability to use Hide in Plain Sight, once again when they acquire the ability to penetrate through Critical Hit Immunity with the Epic Precision feat, and the chances are that the extra feat and extra Spell Like abilities will be similar game changers to certain arcane builds.

[Dolorof]

The Spirit Shaman build is a PvP build, and thus it would lack the Quickened Spell-like abilities, and innate Spell Resistance might protect enemy casters.

As for the Swashbuckler build, it would not achieve Greater Dispel Immunity. It would not have a spell like ability of your choice.

You can say that these differences are very miniscule and irrelevant, but sometimes it is only the little things that keep you from getting Fugued. It is unlikely, but even at 5% chance a single Greater Dispel could strip every single spell from your character, some players are willing to take that risk, others are not. As for the PvP build, when you are trading spells, doing nothing for one round simply because enemy's spell resistance absorbed your spell can cost you the fight. There are players who want to have as strong characters as they can, and this in and of itself does not make them bad role-players, it is just a matter of personal preference.

As for the change itself, I do not actually care whether it gets implemented or not, I am simply stating a fact that even a one little feat could be something absolutely massive in the sense of pure mechanical power. After all, there is a night and day difference whenever any Rogue build first gains its ability to use Hide in Plain Sight, once again when they acquire the ability to penetrate through Critical Hit Immunity with the Epic Precision feat, and the chances are that the extra feat and extra Spell Like abilities will be similar game changers to certain arcane builds.

Ok so thats my point, as far as things discussed here, they are all minimal changes, a power increase for sure but only marginal.

[whatever123]

Thus a Quickened Mord

How does one quicken 9th level spells? I know arcane scholar can quicken level 6 but how are higher levels quickened?

[Dolorof]

Thus a Quickened Mord

How does one quicken 9th level spells? I know arcane scholar can quicken level 6 but how are higher levels quickened?

You can't but BM scar should cast one pretty quick.

[YYA]

Ok so thats my point, as far as things discussed here, they are all minimal changes, a power increase for sure but only marginal.

And you are free to hold your opinion.

How does one quicken 9th level spells? I know arcane scholar can quicken level 6 but how are higher levels quickened?

The Spell Like Abilities from Archmage are cast faster than regular spells. It is just how feats activate in this game. A spell usually takes half a round to fling off, a feat in geneeral takes something like 2/5ths or 1/3rd of a round.

[whatever123]

You can't but BM scar should cast one pretty quick.

The Spell Like Abilities from Archmage are cast faster than regular spells. It is just how feats activate in this game. A spell usually takes half a round to fling off, a feat in geneeral takes something like 2/5ths or 1/3rd of a round.

I see, interesting. Thanks for info.

[DM Gixustrat]

As a wizard player practically since this servers inception, I have been dreaming of a return to the 5 level prc for AM and Hierophant as it really is no where near as groundbreaking as it was back then. Melee is god now, anyone can have any skill so traditional Gandalfs need some love imo. As a player I approve.

[DaloLorn]

As a wizard player practically since this servers inception, I have been dreaming of a return to the 5 level prc for AM and Hierophant as it really is no where near as groundbreaking as it was back then. Melee is god now, anyone can have any skill so traditional Gandalfs need some love imo. As a player I approve.

I'm getting some mixed signals here, hearing a player opinion expressed via a DM account...

[Rhifox]

How does one quicken 9th level spells? I know arcane scholar can quicken level 6 but how are higher levels quickened?

The Spell Like Abilities from Archmage are cast faster than regular spells. It is just how feats activate in this game. A spell usually takes half a round to fling off, a feat in geneeral takes something like 2/5ths or 1/3rd of a round.

Only because most feats aren't programmed with actual cast timers. Feats are just spells, ultimately, and how fast they cast is dependent on what the spell's cast time is set to. So in this case, casting faster was presumably intended.

[YYA]

I'm getting some mixed signals here, hearing a player opinion expressed via a DM account...

Well, it used to work like that in the olden days. Personally, I do not mind.

As a wizard player practically since this servers inception, I have been dreaming of a return to the 5 level prc for AM and Hierophant as it really is no where near as groundbreaking as it was back then. Melee is god now, anyone can have any skill so traditional Gandalfs need some love imo. As a player I approve

Melee/Ranged may be god at PvE, but when it comes to PvP: I would still say that Arcanists are the god of it, even if it slides into some form of competition of who has the most UMD consumables to waste.

And it doesn't change the fact that a five level Archmage or Hierophant would still be used by those Gish Builds, and instead of just having the extra +2 Caster Levels through Spell Power, they would get all three and two other abilities on top of it. Any Gish Cleric certainly benefits from Extend and Quicken Spell metamagic feats, which Hierophant would offer for free, or the ability to double the effect of Heals or Harm spells.

Hierophant already requires 19 Wisdom, but having that on a Gish build is not the end of the Gish Build. But raise the ability score reuqirement even higher, and the "3 by 20" rule will mean that one cannot take Hierophant or potentially Archmage on a race with a negative racial modifier in the primary casting attribute.

[VDub]

Remove the "3 by 20" rule. It was put into place to slow down powerbuilding. We are way past that point now. It's a rule that was put into place YEARS ago. It wouldn't hurt to revisit it again.