Fire Wolf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:14 pmIt shouldn't cause any ill will unless someone refuses to stop clicking them after reaching their limit and doesn't give people a turn.
This can't happen, AFAIK (though I should double-check the scripts to be absolutely sure). But what could happen, especially with low-DC, high-density spots like apple orchards, is someone cycling through on a bunch of alts each capable of reliably harvesting a resource. Migrating from a per-character cap to a per-player cap might be prudent, possibly accompanied by an increase in the cap.
I feel like this is specifically an apple orchard issue, personally.
A per player cap for harvestables would make it very difficult to play more than one herbalist, which I hope to do at some point.
I think a better way to avoid this problem would be to reduce the gold reward for selling apples to something more believable. As great as it is to see that pile of money after selling a handful of apples, it's probably the reason for any camping or alt harvesting issues, and also from an in-character perspective inflates the price of food to a point where only the rich could ever eat.
Cyrah Ru'othro - The Black Bard [Currently Active]
Teris Ynarno - Genasi Druid of Eldath [Retired - May Visit Occasionally]
Fire Wolf wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:04 pm
I feel like this is specifically an apple orchard issue, personally.
A per player cap for harvestables would make it very difficult to play more than one herbalist, which I hope to do at some point.
I think a better way to avoid this problem would be to reduce the gold reward for selling apples to something more believable. As great as it is to see that pile of money after selling a handful of apples, it's probably the reason for any camping or alt harvesting issues, and also from an in-character perspective inflates the price of food to a point where only the rich could ever eat.
This is very much an apple-orchard issue specifically.
I've commented on this previously, but it may have missed some visibility:
Kitunenotsume wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 2:48 am
For apples the same 6 harvests create a profit of 600 GP (and 1380 XP) without leaving the radius of a fireball. Given the harvest limitations, this can be overcome through use of multiple characters funneling into one - either different players or alts, for a fairly substantial return at low effort to maximize productivity.
In comparison, Northern Troll Hides compensate 124 GP for each hide (and no turn-in XP) and requires successfully slaying multiple mobs (the drop-rate is not guaranteed) before trucking the hefty payload across 2 servers. While admittedly this profit is uncapped per reset, it is significantly slower and more cumbersome than the 6-minute cycle-time of running through as many alts as someone cares to use.
This dissonance of effort vs return is also a bit jarring, as it somewhat implies that bread is for the super-rich, vegetables are rich-people food, and meats and monster-kills are the most commonly available sustenance (which is a bit backward). I'm aware that limitations exist due to XP-sources and gamificatiton, but the numbers used for monetary compensation may be worth review in comparison to other sources of similar activity.
I think what it really needs is just a general review of the reward function in comparison to other similar activities that the server already provides (Especially considering effort vs reward); and consideration of a limit of how frequently the trade dialog is available. Worth noting is that muling items is permitted on this server, and thus is not an exploit of the system - though the behavior is certainly exploitive in nature.
Kitunenotsume wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 2:48 am
For apples the same 6 harvests create a profit of 600 GP (and 1380 XP) without leaving the radius of a fireball. Given the harvest limitations, this can be overcome through use of multiple characters funneling into one - either different players or alts, for a fairly substantial return at low effort to maximize productivity.
In comparison, Northern Troll Hides compensate 124 GP for each hide (and no turn-in XP) and requires successfully slaying multiple mobs (the drop-rate is not guaranteed) before trucking the hefty payload across 2 servers. While admittedly this profit is uncapped per reset, it is significantly slower and more cumbersome than the 6-minute cycle-time of running through as many alts as someone cares to use.
This dissonance of effort vs return is also a bit jarring, as it somewhat implies that bread is for the super-rich, vegetables are rich-people food, and meats and monster-kills are the most commonly available sustenance (which is a bit backward). I'm aware that limitations exist due to XP-sources and gamificatiton, but the numbers used for monetary compensation may be worth review in comparison to other sources of similar activity.
The take-away here really should be Troll Hides aren't worth it. Spoilers: They aren't worth it, almost everyone I know (myself included) says "it is just a big waste of time".
IMO if we balance around a 'big waste of time', all the devs are creating is more 'big wastes of time'. If that is the goal, why bother? Focus on developing something more meaningful at that point.
Fire Wolf wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:04 pm
I feel like this is specifically an apple orchard issue, personally.
A per player cap for harvestables would make it very difficult to play more than one herbalist, which I hope to do at some point.
I think a better way to avoid this problem would be to reduce the gold reward for selling apples to something more believable. As great as it is to see that pile of money after selling a handful of apples, it's probably the reason for any camping or alt harvesting issues, and also from an in-character perspective inflates the price of food to a point where only the rich could ever eat.
This is very much an apple-orchard issue specifically.
I've commented on this previously, but it may have missed some visibility:
Kitunenotsume wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 2:48 am
For apples the same 6 harvests create a profit of 600 GP (and 1380 XP) without leaving the radius of a fireball. Given the harvest limitations, this can be overcome through use of multiple characters funneling into one - either different players or alts, for a fairly substantial return at low effort to maximize productivity.
In comparison, Northern Troll Hides compensate 124 GP for each hide (and no turn-in XP) and requires successfully slaying multiple mobs (the drop-rate is not guaranteed) before trucking the hefty payload across 2 servers. While admittedly this profit is uncapped per reset, it is significantly slower and more cumbersome than the 6-minute cycle-time of running through as many alts as someone cares to use.
This dissonance of effort vs return is also a bit jarring, as it somewhat implies that bread is for the super-rich, vegetables are rich-people food, and meats and monster-kills are the most commonly available sustenance (which is a bit backward). I'm aware that limitations exist due to XP-sources and gamificatiton, but the numbers used for monetary compensation may be worth review in comparison to other sources of similar activity.
I think what it really needs is just a general review of the reward function in comparison to other similar activities that the server already provides (Especially considering effort vs reward); and consideration of a limit of how frequently the trade dialog is available. Worth noting is that muling items is permitted on this server, and thus is not an exploit of the system - though the behavior is certainly exploitive in nature.
Well, I agree with Dalolorn's suggestion to make harvesting limit caps per player instead of per character. It's not like anyone needs more than one herbalist character and it would prevent semi-exploits like above. Would also prevent everyone with an herbalist character having 10 alt ranger/bards with class skill survival and access to invis and exp retreat.
What I did that Aspect of Sorrow got so passive-aggressive about was not mule the apples to one character but actually turn them in with each of three characters, but since then I've limited my visits to only one character. What I saw someone do that I referenced when I said I saw someone "camping" is do the orchard, then go afk to the side right by the orchard. I assume they were waiting for them to repopulate but I can't say for sure because I didn't hang around to find out and I didn't ask and I certainly didn't make note of their name or screenshot them because it's neither my responsibility nor my right to police the play of specific other people. Is the cap on apples 6 per day? More? 6 per reset? More per reset?
You were found standing next to the orchard with one of your characters idle-waiting the time doing the same thing you previously admonished and now back peddled when discovered. When approached you then relogged, and when you thought I departed you returned with your other characters to the same location. When brought up here your response was to try and draw your ire to me in private messages on the forum. At least stick to a true narrative of events.
Green Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:41 pm
Well, I agree with Dalolorn's suggestion to make harvesting limit caps per player instead of per character. It's not like anyone needs more than one herbalist character and it would prevent semi-exploits like above. Would also prevent everyone with an herbalist character having 10 alt ranger/bards with class skill survival and access to invis and exp retreat.
That will only cap people who harvest to cover their differing crafters/RP they may or likely have. I agree with FireWolf, just because you may not see a reason to have multiple harvesting type characters doesn't mean other players should be inhibited from that. If the system remains as it is, one person gets a harvest every so long, then the apples for that orchard could have a specific tag that no other places have, which means then, only those six nodes can be used for the Orchard Man.
Green Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:41 pm
Well, I agree with Dalolorn's suggestion to make harvesting limit caps per player instead of per character. It's not like anyone needs more than one herbalist character and it would prevent semi-exploits like above. Would also prevent everyone with an herbalist character having 10 alt ranger/bards with class skill survival and access to invis and exp retreat.
That will only cap people who harvest to cover their differing crafters/RP they may or likely have. I agree with FireWolf, just because you may not see a reason to have multiple harvesting type characters doesn't mean other players should be inhibited from that. If the system remains as it is, one person gets a harvest every so long, then the apples for that orchard could have a specific tag that no other places have, which means then, only those six nodes can be used for the Orchard Man.
Well, originally I suggested that Mr Orchard Man become a normal once per 7 day quest and I still think that should be the case. 1200 gold and 600 xp is a LOT for about 1 minute of time every reset. As long as it's as it is I will continue to take advantage of it for my mechanically horrible (right now) character, but that doesn't mean I think it's good for the server for it to be like this.
[edit] Obviously the format of the interaction would have to change.
Farmer: "Hey, can you help me? I have to fill an order for apples for the [insert name of posh house in Beregost, I forgot what it's called] Estate that they need right away but I threw my back out this morning. I need six apples right now but I'll pay you for fewer if you can't reach six. Either way, it's gotta be now."
Then you go and pick apples. When you come back you have the option to turn in any number of apples up to 6 and once you've turned in your apples (even if it's only one) you can't do it again for 7 days.
Green Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:05 pm1200 gold and 600 xp is a LOT for about 1 minute of time every reset. As long as it's as it is I will continue to take advantage of it for my mechanically horrible (right now) character, but that doesn't mean I think it's good for the server for it to be like this.
Yes, that's definitely a huge outlier in our server's rewards. Probably needs to be brought in line with other methods of obtaining XP.
RE: Herbalism products that have charges and are therefore not stackable.
They take up a lot of inventory space and the 3 item limit in the auction means it'd be hard to sell them in bulk. BUT.... I have an idea: every herbalism product that has charges could ALSO have a "unique power" ability that adds its charges to another of the exact same item, up to 50 (insert appropriate number) charges.
You have a mandrake root essence with 3 charges. You make another one. Use the second one's special power to add its charges to the first. 2nd one disappears and the 1st now has 6 charges.
You have a mandrake root essence with 2 less than max charges. You make another one. Use the second one's special power to add its charges to the first. 2nd one now has 1 charge and the 1st now has max charges.
It does not appear that Nashkel, Amn has a publicly accessible cooking station.
I've looked through all the buildings, and cannot find one. I note that the Northern Lights inn has a kitchen, but it is both behind a locked door and in an area that cannot be pathed to, so I have been unable to check there.
I'm not sure how much the area needs it, but the well in the middle of town being a water-source could also have value.
2-4 portions per production would improve the RP utility of the investment and actions performed, and avoid implying that a quick snack for 1 bonus HP for a minute involved an entire 9-inch pie or whole roasted boar carcass. Multiple portions for a finished product would allow for distributing portions, rather than making a single serving that cannot be shared despite Chocolate Cake's claim (as defined by Dictionary.com, at least not without creating multiple.)
Has this thread passed its prime, or can I suggest something? And if I find possible bugs / questions about the herbalism functionality, is this the place?
Suggestion
This might pertain to The Sorcerous Sundries only
The inventory fiddling is a bit of a bother, and running to and back from the Storage bookshelf to the Herbalist's Bench unnecessarily tiresome. Please consider placing the Storage bookshelf central in the room. In that way you can have the storage window open while you interact with the workbench. This works for the Alchemists workbench, The Surgery Tools and Distilling Tool, being more proximate to the Storage Bookshelf.
It would be helpful if you could see in the Event log when you craft something, what items were removed from inventory before adding the result item to the inventory. It would be easier to double check back what you actually crafted (as in the possible bug Workman's Poultice vs Workman's Balm below.)
Possible bugs
I made a Balsam Ointment. Its special properties is Healer kit +5. No charges. But I can sell it to the Sorcerous Sundries vendor for max value (in this shop 1100 gp). I feel something doesn't add up.
And this, I am not 100% sure about this, can't try it a second time, ran out of nettles.
Crafted a Workman's Poultice and received a Workman's balm.
Thanks for the new herbalism! Though the inventory of the storage gives Edward a headache, luckily he knows how to craft a drop of laudanum to ease the tension!
