Update on Open question to team evil/morally questionable

[Ghost]

In terms of Gholaman’s post: Taking charge of NPC’s under your own command should not be classified as god-modding yet it is. It’s one of the reason Dreadlords of Darkhold were laughed at and not taken seriously by many.

And in a lot of cases, it isn't an issue. Indeed we generally allow leaders of Darkhold, Candlekeep and even non-canon guilds with NPCs to exert some commanding of their NPCs within the areas of their guilds without any need for DM involvement at all.

The problem is if you're going to use those NPC forces to make impacts on the world, such as raiding villages, as if those villages have no defenses that you must overcome.

[zhazz]

We also hear a lot about people hating having to use the forums. Personally I think the forums are great: They invite a more long-form, thought out style of writing that is good for storytelling, than something like Discord. And they provide a good means for record-keeping and the tools needed to search through those records with some precision.

The forums are great for documenting things, and for keeping up with role-play, when access to the game client isn't available (like if you're traveling). They're a great supplement to being in-game. They're great for information sharing, guides, questions, bug reporting, and open requests.

But I personally loathe the documentation part of role-play. While I get the necessity of it, it very much feels like doing double the work. Role-play occurring in-game, which is to be documented on the forums, falls into a few categories of "how to do it":

1. Screenshots
   These are great, but not very searchable. They can also only be taken when the role-play is happening, which it is easy to forget about in the moment.
2. Summary of role-play
   By far the most widely used from what I've seen. It's easily searchable, and can be done at any time. But it can often take just as long to write the summary as it took to do the actual in-game role-play.
3. Log dumping
   By far the easiest. Just copy/paste the entire thing from the logs onto the forums. I've seen it a few times, but it's often difficult to read through, and contain a lot of fluff, which isn't relevant to what is being communicated. Very few people want to read a big wall of text.

If I have 5 hours to spend on the game, I'll nearly always choose to go in-game to do new role-play, rather than spend the time on the forums to write about role-play I've already had. From the handful of people I talk with regularly, this is a sentiment they share. And I think it's part of what is being referred to when forum hate is mentioned.

To achieve something requires documentation, which may just be sending a summary to staff. That documentation can either be done by strictly forum role-play, with no in-game role-play; or it can be done by in-game role-play, which is then later on documented on the forums. It's less time investment to just do the role-play on the forums, and available time is a factor for many players.

And specifically because the forums is the only place to document role-play, it's entirely possible for individuals and groups or guilds to spend all their time on the forums, and none in-game, while getting more done in less time than someone who primarily spends time in-game. The highly active forum participants can basically limit their in-game activity to whenever a DM wants to run an even for them, which is more likely to happen for them with the "effort and investment" their documentation portrays. Still without ever being in-game.

That's where I believe another part of the forum hatred to come from.
People who play the game need to spend additional time on the forums to document. Or they can avoid playing the game, and just do documentation, with far greater success at achieving something.




I think the DM team is doing a great job. Even more so when considering the tools at their disposal. So take the above with a grain of salt. It's not a stab at the staff, or any players. It's an observation, and some lamentation of the way things are (for now), which, while necessary, isn't ideal.

I've already posted a suggestion in another thread (Restructure or Status Quo) on how to move some of the documentation work inside the game. So I won't repeat it here. It's the only suggestion that I do have, however.

[Rain]

Hidden: show

We also hear a lot about people hating having to use the forums. Personally I think the forums are great: They invite a more long-form, thought out style of writing that is good for storytelling, than something like Discord. And they provide a good means for record-keeping and the tools needed to search through those records with some precision.

The forums are great for documenting things, and for keeping up with role-play, when access to the game client isn't available (like if you're traveling). They're a great supplement to being in-game. They're great for information sharing, guides, questions, bug reporting, and open requests.

But I personally loathe the documentation part of role-play. While I get the necessity of it, it very much feels like doing double the work. Role-play occurring in-game, which is to be documented on the forums, falls into a few categories of "how to do it":

1. Screenshots
   These are great, but not very searchable. They can also only be taken when the role-play is happening, which it is easy to forget about in the moment.
2. Summary of role-play
   By far the most widely used from what I've seen. It's easily searchable, and can be done at any time. But it can often take just as long to write the summary as it took to do the actual in-game role-play.
3. Log dumping
   By far the easiest. Just copy/paste the entire thing from the logs onto the forums. I've seen it a few times, but it's often difficult to read through, and contain a lot of fluff, which isn't relevant to what is being communicated. Very few people want to read a big wall of text.

If I have 5 hours to spend on the game, I'll nearly always choose to go in-game to do new role-play, rather than spend the time on the forums to write about role-play I've already had. From the handful of people I talk with regularly, this is a sentiment they share. And I think it's part of what is being referred to when forum hate is mentioned.

To achieve something requires documentation. That documentation can either be done by strictly forum role-play, skipping in-game role-play, or it can be done by in-game role-play, which is then later on documented on the forums. It's less time investment to just do the role-play on the forums, and available time is a factor for many players.

And specifically because the forums is the only place to document role-play, it's entirely possible for individuals and groups or guilds to spend all their time on the forums, and none in-game, while getting more done in less time than someone who primarily spends time in-game. The highly active forum participants can basically limit their in-game activity to whenever a DM wants to run an even for them, which is more likely to happen for them with the "effort and investment" their documentation portrays. Still without ever being in-game.

That's where I believe another part of the forum hatred to come from.
People who play the game need to spend additional time on the forums to document. Or they can avoid playing the game, and just do documentation, with far greater success at achieving something.




I think the DM team is doing a great job. Even more so when considering the tools at their disposal. So take the above with a grain of salt. It's not a stab at the staff, or any players. It's an observation, and some lamentation of the way things are (for now), which, while necessary, isn't ideal.

I've already posted a suggestion in another thread (Restructure or Status Quo) on how to move some of the documentation work inside the game. So I won't repeat it here. It's the only suggestion that I do have, however.

It is actually kind of wild how true some of this is. Especially the part of forum RP vs IG RP. I’m inclined to say that it’s sadly discouragingly true how an entirely forum based guild would likely be leagues ahead of an entirely IG RP guild in terms of progress.

It almost makes me visualize CIV 6, where science/art civilization could win the entire game without ever having been discovered or interacted with by the neighboring civilization essentially gaining a ghost victory. That’s kind of what forum guilds are.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

I've already posted a suggestion in another thread (Restructure or Status Quo) on how to move some of the documentation work inside the game. So I won't repeat it here. It's the only suggestion that I do have, however.

Tooling could be made where a marker is placed to reference by in a request, and the conversation viewed by staff without needing log submission, like a wiki marker in a way for cited references.

I’m inclined to say that it’s sadly discouragingly true how an entirely forum based guild would likely be leagues ahead of an entirely IG RP guild in terms of progress.

I've witnessed this with single digit activity pop guilds gaining NPC counts hand over fist through what I assume was only forum activity, whilst the Vanguard's was a few NPCs from effort in game, despite having shelled out numerous hours in our effort and in game presence. Perception wise that faction may have only put in a few paragraphs with a more generalized approach but was rewarded more heavily. In particular the appeal to hearts that suddenly reinforced mercenary ranks on their part.

[Tekill]

How do you feel those expectations and aspirations, so troubled as they presently are, will be met without solutions being discussed?

That is an friggin great question Aspect of Sorrow. Well said!
At the very least he is not exercising wilful ignorance and then in bad faith, disruptively criticize anything he doesn't agree with without supplying any constructive ideas, suggestions or solutions of his own.
Maybe he should though- It won't solve anything but at least he will have a false sense of superiority.

You mentioned tangible actionable tasks?
Care to supply us with a few of them?

EDIT: Crud! I promised not to post anymore on this thread! This was the last one I promise-promise!

[Aspect of Sorrow]

How do you feel those expectations and aspirations, so troubled as they presently are, will be met without solutions being discussed?

That is an friggin great question Aspect of Sorrow. Well said!
At the very least he is not exercising wilful ignorance and then in bad faith, disruptively criticize anything he doesn't agree with without supplying any constructive ideas, suggestions or solutions of his own.
Maybe he should though- It won't solve anything but at least he will have a false sense of superiority.

You mentioned tangible actionable tasks?
Care to supply us with a few of them?

EDIT: Crud! I promised not to post anymore on this thread! This was the last one I promise-promise!

You can begin your adventure here with all the same gusto you did for that gaslighting attempt. If you require assistance in reading what is eligibly constructive ideas, suggestions, and solutions, you can begin by reading the individual responses on this thread with text to speech enabled given visual comprehension shortcomings on your part. Tangible, actionable tasks litter the forum here as well as the BGTSCC discord, your glossing over the proposals doesn't invalidate their existence. The post literally above yours has an actionable suggestion from a technical standpoint in lieu of another player's own.

[selhan]

My opinions-

Forum RP : For any players that remember the days of Proboards will understand the importance of Forum Rp. You have day to day players, weekly players and so forth. Players that want to stay in the loop, want to still be involved even tho RL prevent them from doing so. Forums RP affords the opportunity. Many players enjoy reading how other players views this world of BG we play in. Sometimes its exciting when you read something in regards to you, from other players perceptive. My Goblet post grew to that. It was initially for DM's to *SEE* the activity going while they were not online during my time zones. However in due time, other players enjoyed the read and would message me to keep it up for it was an entertaining read for them. I dont post to show off writing skills, I only got a G.E.D But years of BG taught me. Its other players postings you can say thanks to that bit.

This Thread: Has surely grew to be a complaint thread. My complaint is only, I wish many of you with the energy to complain could put in the same energy to get in game and Rp.

Factions NPC's: To gain faction NPC's I had always assumed each and every npc recruited had to be Rp'd with DM oversite , without it the recruitment if null and void. Unless something change and Im mistaken? TO any faction I think the cap of NPCs should remain between 300-500 . Learning more towards 300. (Only because server population isnt like what it use to be. If I myself can have 500 npcs, wth do i need player members for?)

State of DM's : Which I dont find to be on the topic but since many have, I will put in my own opinion. I cant really say anything much on DM. All that I had worked with was engaging and they created some really great fun. 99% of the time with 1% being a complicating issue that I wont speak about cause its not my business too. But there is some things I DO want to point out.

DM's are players too,
DM's are sometimes Dev's
DM's are sometimes Admins
DM's have a Real life.

We want them pushing event/plots / rp etc
But we dont see all the complaints / drama rants via PMs
We might be forgetting the "Player Bio Requests" that they have to go over. ((Yall see how many damn player request there is? Some alts got alts!))

DM workload is many, maybe some restructuring internal side needs to be at work but why bash and complain? Why not encourage or better yet try to help? Meet half way or apply to the Team yourself? So many areas within the server I wanted alterations on, wanted to give some areas a new look. Must I have continue to keep putting in request to Devs to have it done for my enjoyment? Thats not savvy at all. So I joined the Dev team and been tackling areas with their help and advise while they can continue finishing up their own big current projects.

State of Evil/Morale: Which IS THE SUBJECT OF THIS DAMN THREAD

I really dont know what others are doing. But all of my evil deeds are being done and succeeding. But as much as I want to spam a DM to get some really big things happening I dont why..cause other players killin their mojo. I want a DM that Wants to work with me. Not be forced to work with me. Its more fun that way.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

My opinions-

Forum RP : For any players that remember the days of Proboards will understand the importance of Forum Rp. You have day to day players, weekly players and so forth. Players that want to stay in the loop, want to still be involved even tho RL prevent them from doing so. Forums RP affords the opportunity. Many players enjoy reading how other players views this world of BG we play in. Sometimes its exciting when you read something in regards to you, from other players perceptive. My Goblet post grew to that. It was initially for DM's to *SEE* the activity going while they were not online during my time zones. However in due time, other players enjoyed the read and would message me to keep it up for it was an entertaining read for them. I dont post to show off writing skills, I only got a G.E.D But years of BG taught me. Its other players postings you can say thanks to that bit.

I don't believe there's any effort to dilute the forum RP side, rather that the weight of real-time effort can appear undervalued by a summary or now GPT entry. On the same hand long form messaging also adds time for staff review when requests are made.

This Thread: Has surely grew to be a complaint thread. My complaint is only, I wish many of you with the energy to complain could put in the same energy to get in game and Rp.

Those that have a complaint about the environment are seeking changes for better accommodation, and many of them, nearly all, have spent an inordinate amount of time in their in game RP to try and forge new narratives for themselves and their accompaniment. You're almost as old as I am here, you know there's a lot of room yet for improvement, and often static has to occur if it means there can finally be a weld.

Factions NPC's: To gain faction NPC's I had always assumed each and every npc recruited had to be Rp'd with DM oversite , without it the recruitment if null and void. Unless something change and Im mistaken? TO any faction I think the cap of NPCs should remain between 300-500 . Learning more towards 300. (Only because server population isnt like what it use to be. If I myself can have 500 npcs, wth do i need player members for?)

Historically the values and scale were all over the place, the past few years saw the correction of it but you can still manage to end up with a faction that, if NPC rules vs PCs apply, has some eyebrow raising results. Optically there doesn't seem to be a strong enforcement of faction decay when player activity is no longer present.

DM workload is many, maybe some restructuring internal side needs to be at work but why bash and complain? Why not encourage or better yet try to help? Meet half way or apply to the Team yourself? So many areas within the server I wanted alterations on, wanted to give some areas a new look. Must I have continue to keep putting in request to Devs to have it done for my enjoyment? Thats not savvy at all. So I joined the Dev team and been tackling areas with their help and advise while they can continue finishing up their own big current projects.

There's no question that the administrative portion of BGTSCC is heavy; compounded by the aforementioned requests, and on top of that the correspondence that has to await answer. The aim is to mitigate what that looks like as much as possible such that the players behind staff have more they can creatively do with the playerbase.

I really dont know what others are doing. But all of my evil deeds are being done and succeeding. But as much as I want to spam a DM to get some really big things happening I dont why..cause other players killin their mojo. I want a DM that Wants to work with me. Not be forced to work with me. Its more fun that way.

There's no interest in forcing DMs to do what they don't want to do, recognized at times obligation takes precedence, but you also want those endeavors and those enablements to meet in the middle with a better flow and understanding for both parties. Sometimes it's a communication issue but that's got to be less than 5% of staff issues, but also no one is a mind reader for either side of that fence. Being a little more upfront with goals, and amicable with what is altered will help but history for some has offered hard "No" than "Let's talk it out."

[Rain]

Why would anyone feel the urge to put their energy in game when this thread (which again are complaints that have lingered for years) clearly showcases that people feel as though their time is being wasted doing so?

More and more of you are literally just reading the last page of responses in this thread and saying things that make you look ignorant to the 11 page discussion.

Call it a complaint thread all you like. There are a reason these complaints are sprouting here. Because I ‘Guarantee’ you a year from now these same complaints will be foretold yet again. (I’d love to be proved wrong though.)

P.S: Doesn’t matter anyway, with how this thread is shaping up, they’ll just lock it like the last thread, until another one just like this one starts the train again.

[DaloLorn]

The last thread wasn't locked. Rhifox asked that a new thread be opened to avoid necromancy: Nothing more, nothing less.

[Ashenie]

Hello there,

First of all, it's really sad, and somehow very heart-breaking, that some of you, at several levels, for different reasons, because of different experience and with different attempts reached the same conclusion : that the game feels - at time - barren, that everything requires Dungeon Masters, that Evil is hard and straining to play, and that you feel like you are unheard. I am sure that "Evil" players are not the only players to feel this way. Over the course of the years, similar feelings have touched all categories of players. Some are less vocal, some feel bad about saying it, some just drop it... Either way, it can come as a shared perspective, although amplified when it finds echos, bad experiences and painful moments that somehow often overshadow everything else.
In either case I feel sorry, and sad, that on a game, we reach this point, whatever reasons, truth and experiences are behind.

I really hope it gets better.

While I understand the perspective listed above, and really more detailed in all the pages, with "complaints", or simply exposition of painful moments and the feelings that linger, I do feel like there are still many opportunties to create, for Evil, for Good, for Neutral, for everyone in between.

As some have stated earlier in this post, we are one community. So we are all in this together.

For me, the question is not revolving around "What is preventing Evil from taking shape?", it is more "What can we do to move forward?". There are surely reasons and causes all behind this, and they could probably also be adressed, separately. But I am a believer of opportunities. Even if the caneva is not perfect, what is there to take, here and now, beyond waiting for providencial changes?

Priviledge smaller goals towards a larger end : Example of building a Temple to Beshaba
Some answers feel like "hard-no". While it can be discouraging, I found that favoring smaller goals can help. This is, for example, instead of building a temple to Beshaba, to first write a curse-book with insanities (within PG13) , to have a roleplay presence in the area and preach - even if no one is listening. It declines for me in three branches, that nurturing separately can contribute to a larger goal :

• Individual roleplay : This is the roleplay you do with yourself. Write prayers, books, prepare rituals, study necromancy, patroll an area alone, collect gold, make rumor and forum post... the list is numerous. It is important to have something to do on your own, that also develops your character because, in my understanding, this contributes to make your character deeper and impactful. In our Beshaba example, wirting a whole curse-book with studies of dread magic, blood magic, tainted magic, or something else, can help, and can be so interesting and so much fun! Or a notebook of all misfortune you see, or else.
• Player-to-player roleplay : This is for me the core of everything, the link between everything that will allow you to make a step. It ties individual roleplay with requests, it makes everything real, it spreads roleplay. Finding opportunities to interact together remains essential. Especially with player driven events : a congregation of witches discussing dark magic or demons, a conclave of tyrants, a festival, a public preaching... It will draw attention. And that helps a lot. In our example of Beshaba, we can even imagine something from a player to player opposition : A priestess found Ashenie and her unyielding wish to uphold hope. She took offense. You can reach me as player to ask me if you can write a curse book about my character, and do it. I could even attribute some of the failures I endure to the Eye of Beshaba. All of this while informing Dungeon Masters. It's not properly speaking a spell, it's not an attempt to ruin my character, it's relation building through hatred and spiritual endeavors. We need little oversight from Dungeon Masters to do this, except for a few real effects (I failed because Beshaba's eye, etc), for which they can just give approval.
• Dungeon Masters request : This is to impact the world. But the world can't be impacted by a character that does not impact other players. Likewise, impacting other player can require ressources, and those ressources you can build alone in individual roleplay. While a request is pending, lean back to the two previous points. It will keep your roleplay going. Speak about this intention to build a Temple to Beshaba. Let it known you wish to find ressources. Continue preaching. Write another entry in your curse book because someone mocked Beshaba. All of these do not need their approval and will make your presence more real. Continue to build hatred towards Ashenie and spy on her, and hire people to do it.. etc (always with consent that part against other players, or you run into issues)
  
  
  • Your request is approved : Great! Move forward, fill your roleplay with that new request.
  • Your request is denied : Try to ask Dungeon Master if any specific reason (roleplay and out of roleplay) led to deny it, and if you doubt, how to play around this refusal. Remember a denial is not the end of your project. A temple was denied? Fine, I wish to desacrate the area. It's not possible? Fine, I will research about more powerful disecration. How do I do? Well, I get my curse book written, and use Candlekeep. I will try to apply there for a while and use their ressources, then move forward.
    As the example states, priviledge other goals. Do not let your major goal fall, but side step and find other causes to sustain it. And maybe you will not reach this first goal you have but you will find, along the way, other goals - and perhaps more interesting.

Do not let negative spirals take hold
Of course, all of this is beautiful on paper. In reality, facing a "hard-no" is painful, and discouraging. I have personally found that cheering each other, and helping each other and discussing it helps. If we stay focused on the frustration caused by the denial, and get drawn into that spiral, everything turns dull, bitter, and discouraging.
By no means I mean it's easy and we just have to do it. Of course it's hard, of course it's straining, and of course it shouldn't be. But we are all human, we don't always communicate well, even with the best intentions.
I also know many of you tried to build evil like presented above and felt it was vain. It is also the responsability of other players to make evil feel real. I take my own example, but I have been hunted, cursed, and a lot of other things. For me, roleplay is precious, so I always tried to make the evil feel real. This does not mean my character was changed into a coward or someone really scared or else. I kept my line. But I included the curses and assassiantion attemps in my routine, and it made the difference. So I have two advices here :
- For those who wish to commit evil "against" other players : Be as gentle as you can be out of character. Reach your targeted players, chose them wisely, work with them, make sure they - as players - do not feel under pressure. It's a game, nobody should have a bad experience. Do not force the experience onto others when they are unwilling : this will be bad for everyone. There is always a reason you can find to not to target someone specifically. Maybe that woman is charming and you don't want to ruin her - yet. Maybe this warrior, even if you disagree with him, has firm principles and that echoes with your Banite side. Etc..
- For those who accept to be the targets : Make it feel real. Speak about it, take oaths against it, patroll the area, find bodyguards... nurture roleplay in every way to help it- as long as it fits your character of course. Do not hesitate to reach those players who target you and tell them if they went too far. Often, it's not intentional. None of us are mind readers. If there is conflict, do not hesitate to ask for help to Dungeon Masters too.

Invest current Evil organization or places
There are many opportunities and they are easier when built in already evil areas. This can include :
- Baldur's Gate (Umberlee, Sewers, Thayan, Thieves Guild, abusive mercantile, abusive city watch and flaming fist..)
- Amn (Anti-mage propaganda)
- Darkhold & The Zhentarim (Political roleplay, army, spies, agent, etc)
- Soubar (Full lawlessness)
- Uruk Lurra (Orcish tribes)
- The Underdark (Drow culture)

There are already factions set in place. You can use them, you can find alliance, you can compete... etc. There are probably more existing opportunities. It's always easier to start with something existing, because an exisiting organisation helps you to settle somewhere, take hold, continue your work undisturbed, or not as easily stoppable.
On side note, this is a lot of places in the server, and almost all of them. Although it's not all type of evil that can go there, it's still (ironically) most of the server. Maybe not all of those are desirable, gather enough activity, or allow you to play the type of evil you want. Sure it's not perfect, but at least there are "some" opportunities to consider.

Finally, I wish to answer a few common thoughts exposed during the thread, because they can feel terrible for those targeted or involved :
- I believe Dungeon Masters and Builders are willing to make the world more real and impacted by player actions. This is not at all cost and by all means, but this is a general direction that, I feel, is commonly shared in every conversation I see. I have so far not seen anyone saying "This should stay as it is because the world is not supposed to be dynamic". In that sense, they make efforts, sometimes a lot of them. Why those efforts are precieved as "not enough" can be a real question too. Elements of answer given here in this thread are communication, past wounds, bad experiences, strain and fatigue, etc... And why giving them voice and place can be important, allowing another experience to take precedence can also help.

- The Good or Neutral players share a similar experience at times. There have been mention of "auto-win" which, indeed feels terribles, but also nullifies the efforts Good or Neutral players do. I do not mean to compare if it's harder or easier for this or that group, each of them have their own strain. Also, as an analogy, if I had to build a Hospital of Ilmater in the center of Darkhold, I doubt I would have an "auto-win". For some evil attempts presented here or tried elsewhere, the attempt was close to this difficulty too. The laws are also not always evil-friendly. So keep in mind, even if it's difficult sometimes : We are all in the same boat.

- Some attempts of reassurance have been met as restrictions or "soft-no". While it was said that the setting could be altered, but that taking all parameters into account might be wise, it was sometimes interpreted as a soft way to say "it's not going to happen". I firmly believe that a lot, really a lot, can happen. But the higher is the goal, the longer is the road. Pushbacks will be met - do not doubt it - with failures probably, and they are also roleplayed pushbacks and failure. Make something out of them is my advice : a lesson learned, a new focus, a new hatred... So enjoying the journey as much as the end can be crucially important, so we can all have fun together.

Thanks for having read this far.
As an end note, by no means I mean to say that it's wrong to share hurt feelings and bad experiences. I don't also mean that "Just do what listed above, it's easy and you will be in good position, so get good!" It's not the idea.
The idea was for me to expose that, in the current setting, in the current status, there is still much to do. It doesn't mean it couldn't be changed and improved either, but one does not exclude the other.

Let's build evil, good, neutral roleplay, and have great fun together! I am personally happy if someone succeeds, even on the so called "opposite side". Many evil players can tell, I have sometimes reached them to cheer them, congratulate them, or help them go through their difficult times.

This is nothing more than my vision, my advices, and my own experience, so feel free to say it's irrelevant.

I really hope it helps,

Cheers,

Ashenie

[Steve]

To be frank, this thread just seems like a circle-jerk of complaining without any real suggestions or solutions to anything.

This part of your post makes me think you actually didn't take the time to read the thread.

Its so many pages long its impossible to keep up with at this point

Theres -a lot- of complaining in here, and a few bits of useful stuff in between it all.

Do you have any idea on how your written words here may be perceived? That your attitude in words maybe adding to the frustration?

Has anyone from Staff yet acknowledged there is a problem perceived by a part of this community, and that there is a willingness to address it? Has there been one suggestion that a Staff member acknowledged as worthwhile to pursue or enact?

Am I wrong in my understanding that this thread is “too much” for DMs to read, and might as well give up on trying to communicate?

[Rain]

This part of your post makes me think you actually didn't take the time to read the thread.

Its so many pages long its impossible to keep up with at this point

Theres -a lot- of complaining in here, and a few bits of useful stuff in between it all.

Do you have any idea on how your written words here may be perceived? That your attitude in words maybe adding to the frustration?

Has anyone from Staff yet acknowledged there is a problem perceived by a part of this community, and that there is a willingness to address it? Has there been one suggestion that a Staff member acknowledged as worthwhile to pursue or enact?

Am I wrong in my understanding that this thread is “too much” for DMs to read, and might as well give up on trying to communicate?

Imagine a server representative basically saying. TLDR.

[Louvaine]

Honestly, I can't blame SB here. We're dozen pages in and this topic isn't even close to the initial conversation. I move we lock it and start new one for tips on playing evil and feedback on procedures. Even Tekill's new thread is closer to the spirit of current conversation. And it has less bickering in it.

[Almarea90]

Alright folk, this thread has been moderated already and I really don't want it to be locked as the majority of people seem to be participating in a constructive manner. People are of course free to talk about what they think doesn't work on the server, after all things won't get fixed if we don't speak, but this must be done in a respectful manner.

I have unfortunately seen passive-aggressive or right out aggressive replies which sour the mood of the thread for everyone. If someone's point is not clear, please ask for clarification politely without underlying hostility. If you notice such attitude in previous posts, please do not follow up in kind but rather notify the moderators so that the thread doesn't spiral out of control.

I will reiterate, as I did many times, that we are all here to have fun and we are all on the same side regardless of divergent opinions.

Thank you in advance for your understanding.