New Players / Player Retention and "getting the word out" about BGTSCC

[Steve]

So...I've been thinking about ways in which to "advertise" BGTSCC as a D&D 3.5e role-play Server, after some recent Discord discussion here that was...not really uplifting.

The only totally fair statement that came out of it was: BGTSCC needs a steady influx of new players, if it will continue to be a vibrant game community.

A point made that without Steam carrying NWN2, there is a simple blockage to random new players seeing the game, picking up the game. Also, I think BGTSCC missed out on using the recent D&D movie as a "gateway" to getting new players who are interested the Forgotten Realms. I personally think BGTSCC biggest "competitor" is D20 and other online-esque table-top gaming sites/support. But that doesn't mean there can't be some crossover.

So what can be done? I was considering if making a reddit community page would be beneficial. It would have to be monitored, because...obvious reasons. Other avenues of endorsement? Any other positive ideas from anyone else? Someone did mention perhaps a Forum site make-over.

This started on Discord, but perhaps a more focused discussion here is better suited to a positive result!!!

(extra exclamation points for Deathgrowl)

[selhan]

Media Ads -
Trailers etc.

Nwn2 is a old game and there's way more better candy eye games out there. The thing that keeps it from being totally dead is that most here are fans and enjoy being able to RP on this platform.

Advertising helps, may not help by a whole lot due to the age of this game and our server but even to get 5 new ppl helps. I strongly doubt we will ever see the once 80+ online every again but any addition helps.

Competition with Other Servers-

Lets be honest and real, theres only three other existing nwn2 servers out there worth even mentioning. Haven, The Rise of Neverwinter, Sigil

Haven's = More Social / Smut than setting Rp, but is consider a rival to BGTSCC far as active online. Adult rating content and Server Custom Class Feats and easy leveling and craft system is what keeps that Sever afloat. Theres little to no DM events, staff support trickles.
Sigil = Planescape RP? I dont really know, I tried it and just couldnt get past the first 10 minutes of it after character creation and appearance. Only remember some R2D2 looking robot walking up and down the street after I spawned in.
The Rise of Neverwinter aka TRON = is the newest of all four thats has a much older time setting like 100 years before our Time Setting, with subjective numbers far as population. Adult rated, Its basically old school BG with less rules. Has been known at rare times to have higher population than BGTSCC. I mean for me, during my out of this world Time zone, I can find 3-15 online on BGTSCC, vs TRON 1-3 with High Ping. This is just my own experience, others might see different. Its been rumored to be a server with DMs very troll like. *Rez killing players* I myself never seen it, each time I log in its basically ghost town.

I hear Nwn1 EE pw servers has far more numbers in regards to online activity like three four times more from what I been told. They are obviously doing something good. But for me, meh as much as I did enjoy nwn1 the graphics is far worse than nwn2.

Content / Rule Change? -

I really dont know what to tell ya. In my opinion there should always be more than one route to try and increase population. I myself has gone to other servers and passed the word of the type of fun I have on BGTSCC. Many do give it a try, some stay, others come across reasons not too. Such reasons stretch between the PG 13 rating to build rules to community personalities. And theres some that end up playing back and forth switching between servers.

My Concluding Opinion-

Is someone out there that can create a nice advertising Video of our server, that could help?
Figure out what nwn1 is doing that gains so much attraction and pick up good habits from them could help?
Review and Reform rules , server rating, and content that could appease more people from other servers while keeping our own?

I know Reddit was a thought, its a discussion that came up before and I seen it myself and those negative comments. But hey does that mean we stop? I mean other games have bad reviews too and they still going strong. Theres no way we can please everyone , thats a fact in life. I myself would love to see the average 40+ online without half of them just peoples alts. But at the same time, I realize whats real. And whats real is, this is a very old game made off of some complicating tech that makes our coders frustrated or go into rage mode lol

Between the other nwn2 servers, I can say, when it comes to plots, DM, Dev support BGTSCC wins. Last time I seen nearly 70 ppl online was during our Time of Troubles Event. Gonna have to go back and review everything that happen there and try to come up with something similar or on the same level as that plot.

[Avanos]

im working on a video.

soon..

you will all see..

[blazerules]

Thats ominous

[Steve]

im working on a video.

soon..

you will all see..

There is also a video here:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=52574

[Tekill]

D&D is more popular than ever imo.
I think word of mouth among D&D players is where the potential for growth could be found. Speaking of word of mouth, I just watched a great documentary on Prime Video: Eye of the Beholder: The Art of Dungeons and Dragons.

There are quite a few of us, among this nwn and nwn2 community. But we tend to jump around a bit from server to server trying to find a 'certain something'. I think that 'certain something' is a sort of creative expression of the imagination. Internet nerds from around the world have figured out a really cool way to play D&D and to be able to do so on their own time without having to go hang out in their friends basements.

Escape into a world that will take you on an 'Indiana Jones' style adventures while also allowing you to artistically create a niche for yourself, in a world shared by a Forgotten Realms collective Imagination. If such a world could exist then I guarantee such a world could not fail. Such a place would actually become too popular. In fact once the formula for such a world is created - I will also guarantee, you will have your 2nd wave of MMO's trying the same thing ( but then at that point corporate greed would then utterly ruin everything- as per usual). Right now all RPG fans are looking for that 'certain something' of an online RPG experience.

I think if you look at the evolution of this server, we have gone through so much trial and error that when it works this server really works well. It really can achieve that 'certain something' - that high adventure mixed with a creative outlet.
But how does BGTSSC get to that polished end state where, all of us participating, especially DM's and skilled/talented/veteran RP'ers come together to create this harrowing but exciting realm?
We are already aware of the answer and stated it a thousand times on this forum. It is about the journey and not the destination. It is about enjoying the failure just as much as the victory (perfectly demonstrated semi-recently by the followers of the Frost Queen- I'm the one that is supposed to chicken people- not you!!!).

I think once we can actually live that answer to that question we will organically create a real online D&D like atmosphere that will draw people.

My personal opinion on how to achieve that 'certain something' would be to have a community where players act more like DMs in terms of encouraging RP from other players (something I learned from Terri Lalani). The challenge I would say for those of us that are skilled/talented/experienced/modest RP'ers would be create characters who's personalities rallies as many other player to get involved as possible (something I learned from Calvinus, and also Zerros of Soubar). If we have a community of players that enjoy failure just as much as victory, a community that focuses on sharing the spotlight with others, and a community that focuses more on the journey than ones own character sheet, then we will achieve that 'certain something'. If we can accomplish that than I can ensure you that the problem becomes, how do we get rid of all these new players!

I need a another drink!

[gedweyignasia]

A few things that might make it easier to retain new players:

• Remove unused assets or assets which are less popular to reduce the size of BGTSCC download and make it take less space on disk
• Redesign areas and flow to be more navigable, easier to "read", and generally more friendly to new players
• Simplify/streamline UI to avoid overwhelming new players
• Prune gameplay systems to remove things which do not see much use and are complicated
• Continue improving "Recommend" choices to make the default options a playable build
• Rebalance to make powerbuilding less useful
• Remove RCR so veteran players don't skip the low levels
• Increase incentives to RCR so veteran players will have more mid-level characters instead of all epics
• Slow down leveling speed so that PCs are better spread across the level range, making it easier for players of all levels to find a group
• Dramatically increase leveling speed so new players can get to 30 easily
• Get rid of all grandfathered gear bonuses so new players feel they're on level ground with veteran players
• Loot wipe or downgrade existing items so new players feel like they're on level ground with veteran players
• Make looting significantly easier so new players can quickly get on level ground with veteran players
• Encourage new-player friendly guilds with roles for new and low-level PCs that empower those PCs to have an impact in the world

Obviously a lot of these come at the expense of existing players and a few are contradictory options where we're in an uncomfortable middle ground. I'm not recommending any of these here, just pointing out some issues and ways to address them. Don't panic; I'm just pointing these options out as a player. Nobody's about to take your things away. I can look at any item on this list and understand why a player would hate it/think it's a bad idea, so you don't need to yell at me.

[whatsittoya]

A few things that might make it easier to retain new players:

• Remove unused assets or assets which are less popular to reduce the size of BGTSCC download and make it take less space on disk
• Redesign areas and flow to be more navigable, easier to "read", and generally more friendly to new players
• Simplify/streamline UI to avoid overwhelming new players
• Prune gameplay systems to remove things which do not see much use and are complicated
• Continue improving "Recommend" choices to make the default options a playable build
• Rebalance to make powerbuilding less useful
• Remove RCR so veteran players don't skip the low levels
• Increase incentives to RCR so veteran players will have more mid-level characters instead of all epics
• Slow down leveling speed so that PCs are better spread across the level range, making it easier for players of all levels to find a group
• Dramatically increase leveling speed so new players can get to 30 easily
• Get rid of all grandfathered gear bonuses so new players feel they're on level ground with veteran players
• Loot wipe or downgrade existing items so new players feel like they're on level ground with veteran players
• Make looting significantly easier so new players can quickly get on level ground with veteran players
• Encourage new-player friendly guilds with roles for new and low-level PCs that empower those PCs to have an impact in the world

Obviously a lot of these come at the expense of existing players and a few are contradictory options where we're in an uncomfortable middle ground. I'm not recommending any of these here, just pointing out some issues and ways to address them. Don't panic; I'm just pointing these options out as a player. Nobody's about to take your things away. I can look at any item on this list and understand why a player would hate it/think it's a bad idea, so you don't need to yell at me.

I dunno most of these sound pretty neat

[krighaur]

Less long and epic plots, more everyday adventures
***************************************************************

Every servers I have been have long plots. They are often well done, but their problem is that they need a lot of work from the staff, need lot of time from players, and they inevitably end with only a few players involved for many reasons.

The result is that it creates resentment, jealousy, suspection of favoritism, out of game play (discords, forum, PM) which lead to the dramas that appear on a regular basis in every server. Each drama ending with some players quiting, and not always the one that were complaining.


These sort of plot are in fact trying to translate in a PW world the feelings of a tabletop game, but for many technical and human reasons it does not work for a crowd of people with different objectives and time zone.


So if you want to attract and retent more players, you need to switch to more small plots involving more players. So the player lambda who comes and know nobody will have something unusual (in the sense of something lead by an human, a DM, not something scripted he can sees everyday) from time to time. This guy will then tell his friends, hey the server BGTSCC is cool.

Please don't jump at me saying, it's my fault, that I should do this or that, I am not talking about me, I am talking about all the players you have all witnessed, who comes full of hope en enthusiasm, and who disappear some week later.


If I would resume my post it would be : just ask yourself for each plot done here what is the ratio player looking at it at start/player active in it at end ?


NOTE : sorry if this not an elaborate language, english is not my born language

[Steve]

Some good ideas/suggestions here. Thanks for taking a look.

I'd say there are two points of perspective here: the "how to make BGTSCC better" angle, and the "what makes/can make BGTSCC more attractive to new players to join and old players to return to." Both are valid perspectives. Both are challenging in that it's all very subjective.

With considering some of the responses so far:

— Advertising BGTSCC as a role-play Server—first and foremost—in the Forgotten Realms using the NWN2 game/toolset, has to the be the main "tag," as both RP and FR are aspects that many want to partake within, or already are, but either PnP-based or just literature-based. Considering the age of NWN2, it's likely so many do not even know it exists as a platform for entering this rich world(s) of experience. Does that mean BGTSCC has to become RP elite? I say no, however...it does need to align itself to a statement of "role-play gains the best rewards." Why do I use those terms? Because to have meaningful experiences (Role-play itself) and to gain meaningful resources (Items, Status, Custom, etc.) are rewards to the Player. Games reward in the winning of them, in the completion of them. Since BGTSCC does not really function on "winning" nor is there a real "end" on a Permanent World format, the aspect of rewarding players who play here has to be clear, solid, existing and...promoted.

— The platforms that represent BGTSCC—the Forums and the Wiki and Discord..and future ones?—could use an update/cleaning/refresh. For my part, I've been trying to keep the BG Wiki up-to-date and clean up where I can, make it more useful and organized. I do what I can with the permissions I have as I'm not Staff. I say this because I think those of us who aren't Staff can still have a positive effect on keeping BGTSCC vibrant and progressive. Essentially, if new players see a living community and one engaged in a slow but constant improvement, that can balance out the "old" aspect of the NWN2 game itself. I recently stumbled across the Thain PW server web page. Compare who that page works to our Forum (Main) page....https://islandofthain.org/

— Advertising and keeping up-to-date the Staff (DMs, DEVs, QC, etc.) and the projects ongoing and especially what has been implemented most recently, is a good way to show the vibrancy of the Server and Community. A little self-promotion and congratulation is a good thing.

— Some discussion and/or implementation of a "can we make the initial entry into BGTSCC either 'easier' or at least more engaging/rewarding at the start?" Do new PCs need to start at Level 3? Do new PCs need to start with some "tokens" to shop for new gear? I think the recent PC Biography reward system was a good idea, but...that has seen or gotten little traction, at least that I am aware of?!? Either way, like I've always said, one thing BGTSCC could benefit from is more low level activity and investment, so that being a newbie or even just enjoying those pre-Level 10 aspects of the Server in general RP become more meaningful, beyond the "I learned the hard way" and "Whew! I'm glad THAT'S over with!"

— Consider a greater new player agency? And if that is already there, can it be promoted better? Players who have invested on BGTSCC for years have gained and deserved the rewards for such Role-play. But now all new players have the time or willingness to invest so much or for so long. How can the average or below-average gamer-in-terms-of-RL-time have a quality experience on BGTSCC? What does that even look like? If someone can describe that picture in words or actual images, it might be a good form of advertisement for new players, as in a "I see myself in that" vision.

— I think BGTSCC gains and maintains respect for keeping to Core D&D and FR values. Some of those things, like mechanics, might be badly designed from the PnP get-go. But with so many people possibly already invested in the Forgotten Realms Canon from PnP or from other media (comics, movies, books), that BGTSCC is a Permanent World hosting this Canon, people have a solid entry point. So, also one aspect in which to advertise. In fact, as I've come to learn, pre-1370 DR and pre-Spellplague are the least "fleshed out" of eras. So, BGTSCC is unique in existing in this more "un-described" era, yet still connected to Lore and Canon as best it can.

— It might very well be appropriate to remove some assets and "shrink" down the Server until the population does—if ever—rise again. I really enjoy the plethora of Areas to visit, but it's also very much true the current population is spread thin among a vast Server. Perhaps if there was a concentrated effort on player and staff sides to create "nodes" that are frequently populated and act as launching points to Adventure, the vastness would be balanced out. It is also important that those Nodes would be listed and described easily for new players to find them.

— Simply put, BGTSCC needs both Long Form and Short Form campaigns and events. Run by both DMs and players. It's possible.

[gedweyignasia]

It might very well be appropriate to remove some assets and "shrink" down the Server until the population does—if ever—rise again. I really enjoy the plethora of Areas to visit, but it's also very much true the current population is spread thin among a vast Server. Perhaps if there was a concentrated effort on player and staff sides to create "nodes" that are frequently populated and act as launching points to Adventure, the vastness would be balanced out. It is also important that those Nodes would be listed and described easily for new players to find them.

I might be mistaken, but I don't believe areas are taking up very much space in our download. It's mostly heads, armor variations, new creatures, object appearances, etc. in pretty much that order.

[Avanos]

im working on a video.

soon..

you will all see..

There is also a video here:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=52574

This is disgusting..
I see surface elves that aren't dead.

Pitiful attempt at a trailer..
Mine will be better.

[Steve]

It might very well be appropriate to remove some assets and "shrink" down the Server until the population does—if ever—rise again. I really enjoy the plethora of Areas to visit, but it's also very much true the current population is spread thin among a vast Server. Perhaps if there was a concentrated effort on player and staff sides to create "nodes" that are frequently populated and act as launching points to Adventure, the vastness would be balanced out. It is also important that those Nodes would be listed and described easily for new players to find them.

I might be mistaken, but I don't believe areas are taking up very much space in our download. It's mostly heads, armor variations, new creatures, object appearances, etc. in pretty much that order.

If one is concerned about the "footprint" of the game files, yes, you are right. I was more speaking to how the actual experience IG of having a vast playing field and yet having difficulty finding anyone to engage with. Now, usually some entry nodes are inhabited by a few players each day, but that doesn't actually mean a new player will find engagement.

[Tekill]

Having read my first post on this thread again, it seems I was coming accross as being a bit naive or idealistic. So I will add the following to provide a bit of clarification to my first post.

To postpone entropy there needs to be change.
Change requires resources and an effort among enough people willing to want to change.
We arguably have resources but we do not have an effort by people willing to change.
Sure we make small changes, we update mechanics at times, we complain a lot and we make endless suggestions. But the actual effort to change or even the willingness to change, to avert entropy, is simply not there.

Hypothetically speaking, if we were serious about changing/adapting/evolving the server to one that better caters to new players, we would first need to focus on the servers overall philosophy. Once there is a general consensus on that front, we could then work on altering what mechanics needed to change in order to facilitate this changed/adapted/evolved way of approaching the game.

It would take work, and cooperation – with no guarantee that it would work.

But I have to ask at this point- without a commitment to actually invest in changing/adapting/evolving by us veteran players, DM's and Admin, then what is the actual purpose of this thread other than to hear ourselves talk?

Why dont we just accept that there are not enough of us willing to try to change, and simply enjoy the game as is, while it eventually comes to a natural end state?

Those are not rhetorical questions.

[gedweyignasia]

It might very well be appropriate to remove some assets and "shrink" down the Server until the population does—if ever—rise again. I really enjoy the plethora of Areas to visit, but it's also very much true the current population is spread thin among a vast Server. Perhaps if there was a concentrated effort on player and staff sides to create "nodes" that are frequently populated and act as launching points to Adventure, the vastness would be balanced out. It is also important that those Nodes would be listed and described easily for new players to find them.

I might be mistaken, but I don't believe areas are taking up very much space in our download. It's mostly heads, armor variations, new creatures, object appearances, etc. in pretty much that order.

If one is concerned about the "footprint" of the game files, yes, you are right. I was more speaking to how the actual experience IG of having a vast playing field and yet having difficulty finding anyone to engage with. Now, usually some entry nodes are inhabited by a few players each day, but that doesn't actually mean a new player will find engagement.

Oh! As far as areas go, yes, I strongly agree that a more hub-and-spoke type layout would make it easier to find people to RP with, benefitting new and old players alike.

I misunderstood this as referring to my earlier post about reducing the initial download and total storage requirements for BGTSCC, which can be a barrier to entry for players who might want to try a PW.