How to play evil / covert classes? Metagaming and you.

[TheDwarfGristle]

Hey, just a couple of general questions on people's experience with playing evil. Looking for inspiration and guidance. Not that I'm evil, of course *rolls bluff*

1. Are you openly evil? How do you experience that on the server?
2. Did you create a biography? Did you put in the evil aspects as well? (Alignment, deity, classes)
3. If your evilness can be found on the forums, do you experience metagaming, and how do you experience it?
4. If you could restart now, how would you recommend playing and roleplaying evil?
5. Would you prefer openly or covertly playing evil?

Of course, if you have experiences of covert classes on the good alignment spectrum (Harpers, maybe?), I'm also interested in those experiences!

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.

[renshouj]

Don't play anyone evil actively (at the moment, which will soon change), but have in the past and I love it. So sharing my insights.

1. I've played both. "Open evil" gets, as you might expect, far more hostility... If you want that or not is up to you, it probably depends on what kind of character you want to play (sly, subterfugy vs evil faith preacher).

2. What i've done and would recommend doing if you want a bio approval is to make a very safe (no alignment, classes, deity) public bio, but send to the DM team a more complete one with everything they need, or just make a public journal and have a fully private bio, it's something I did on my half drow (her journal here).

3. I haven't much, but I know some people absolutely do, if people are obviously metagaming do report it to the DM team as it is against the rules.

4 & 5. Fully depends on the character imo, you couldn't be covert evil if you were a Talos priest, for example, and it'd also be smart to not be an openly evil assassin. In general, I'd say it's smart to be careful, don't wear a corset made of bones everywhere if you are a necromancer, and in general keep a low profile at least until you get a footing as a character and find like-minded individuals.

[doctorsimon4]

Hey, just a couple of general questions on people's experience with playing evil. Looking for inspiration and guidance. Not that I'm evil, of course *rolls bluff*

1. Are you openly evil? How do you experience that on the server?
2. Did you create a biography? Did you put in the evil aspects as well? (Alignment, deity, classes)
3. If your evilness can be found on the forums, do you experience metagaming, and how do you experience it?
4. If you could restart now, how would you recommend playing and roleplaying evil?
5. Would you prefer openly or covertly playing evil?

Of course, if you have experiences of covert classes on the good alignment spectrum (Harpers, maybe?), I'm also interested in those experiences!

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.

1. Yes / No. - I play a red wizard of Thay but have also used alias' when disguised during my time as an apprentice.
2. Yes, but it isn't public. If you want it approved by DMs you can just PM it them and not publically post it.
3. Unknown, but i am also openly evil as a Red Wizard. I know people OOC are aware of the two identities i use, but they never metagame them as being the same person.
4. Find a concept that is fun to everyone involved. Evil is really fun to play but awful if you force yourself into playing alone. I think starting a cult / joining an existing one can make for fun RP.
5. Both have their perks, i enjoy both sides

Bluff is your friend. Very few people invest into sense motive. A form on non detection is also useful to stop people sensing your allignment

[Riddance]

Didn't had an evil pc here but in long-forgotten TT campaign, so will give of more general answer

In order to play an evil character you should really think through about alignment and what caused it. Having a solid ground for a character to ignore someone's suffering, being ready to commit crime or worship devil (just examples) will made the experience of playing one enjoyable for you at the first place. Just "My character would do that" is considered a poor excuse, as far as I know, so giving him some childhood trauma/ cultural aspects to justify behavior and actions is a go to (but that is appliable to all characters, if being honest). Also, keep in mind that alignment can shift but do not do so easily and especially cannot do so on a whim without using enchantment magic.

If you needed some guidance on which alignemnt to pick, I would recommend Lawful/Neutral Evil. Chaotic Evil usually doesn't hide itself, which means that you will quickly get in conflict with Good-aligned characters (which is ~60% of active basr at the moment?), which may result in pvp and you will likely be stuck with Soubar and other evil-themed locations. Neutral and especially Lawful Evil creatures usually make efforts to not reveal themselves as one until the point where they can do so safely for them.

Hidden: show

Spoler: Evil always acts for his own profit even if it means using others as expendable resource and won't do anything that could harm them. So, they need a decent self-preservation instinct and planning

. So, you can try playing a covert evil and reveal yourself when noone can stop you, play it open and likely face some hostility from good-aligned chars (but that would depend on what you do infront of them, actually), play it open and join other evil characters or come up with something else. Evil characters can work with good ones in team by the end of the day, if they have a common goal and not actively trying to screw each other. Not a common thing, but it does happen

As for the questions of forum, metagaming and such: if you do something, there are chances that rumors will spread - but not guarantees. And using information from journals and public bio's are usually frowned upon, unless I misread rules.

Hidden: show

On other side: if someone tries to find information about your character on forum or just stumbles on rumor and read it - doesn't it mean that you made an interesting character?

So, can't say that my sheet of text will help much. In practice, as one of DMs said : "Let it flow", roll up a character you like and want to play, give it a few shots, see if you actually like playing him and try to find few people with who you can play him without being concernced. And just have fun in the end

[Deathgrowl]

1. Basically always openly evil on my evil characters. I find secret evil ends up not really being evil, just scheming behind the scenes and then being the host of charity events and soup kitchens in practice, never really putting their evil in action. There are a few exceptions to this, but they are almost exclusively keeping up a more neutral fascade than a good one. In any case, I enjoy evil to be proud and unapologetic. So with my orc blackguard of Gruumsh and my more recent Untheric human blackguard of Tiamat, the service to their god is front and center, as it ought to be in almost every case for blackguards. Zealous and dark.
2. Yes.
3. Not really any more than my good aligned characters have been subject to. In fact, probably less, as some of my good aligned characters have been more involved with intrigue (though never as a non-good fascade).
4. Try to join the Zhentarim or the Thayans. Be openly evil. Be unapologetic. Pick an evil faith and play a zealot.
5. Already answered above: Basically always openly. The only exception is if I one day found interest in trying to join the Thieves' Guild with a character. But then I'd probably do the more neutral fascade than make it seem like my character was some innocent do-gooder.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

1. Played a handful of Shar specific characters, the UD based one is more overt than the surface one was, though the latter was secretive and far reaching enough that the impact of it is still roleplayed today of events seven years ago. The former is admittingly more solo than the latter, wherein the noise around the latter was the draw. The focus of most players (and zero on staff) ever caught the actual movement underneath as it was frequently deflected collateral. It was pretty meaningful writing particularly with the one on ones, and the relationships that evolved spun into significant long-term opportunities in its outset. I will say that it takes a lot more work for subversive RP as the reward is less immediate but if/when it pans out in the long term the investment is worth it.

2. A loose biography was set, when a lot of writing occurs over the life of a character it can deviate too wildly if you let it, but I stopped and removed it after some time as the years drew on and the pages upon pages of the commitment began to form its own monster.

3. I'm very cautious on this side of the fence, I spent a lot of time adjusting certain details so that knowledge of a thing cited to another is easier to trace back and cull. The Drow's short stories are ignored because the inherent condition of his existence merits no reward to obfuscation, so most of the writing forum side was a little bit of a blending writing flex of the Drow's muscle, but some portion of it may be shared by the surfacer. Those that were involved in the story in its trenches can pick out the differences.

4. Lawful evil or CN, never CE. I don't find CE to be rewarding for the long term story. Perhaps if I wanted to feel out the CE space and permit closure after a time just to get it out of my system, but I've a preference for long invested things.

5. Covertly, unless there is an environment that supports the open one, which this PW historically struggles to keep. Darkhold of late is doing a pretty good job though.

RE Harpers / Information
This PW is low on the active pop count, somewhere in the 200, 300 with about 100 being hard core enthusiasts. Rumors, and rumors of rumors are a commodity which is frequently blabbed in the open outside the FAI. If you're hunting for a sneaky venue it will probably disappoint unless you're the one putting the clamp on the control flow of that information.

[selhan]

1 - If playing secret evil, its quite easy playing a different persona, however you need to be very careful in what you do because metagaming will hurt your rp. Generally given this sort of role playing game, meta knowledge shouldnt be giving an influences, but it does, either by accidental, and sometimes even intentional. (Some jerks just cant help themselves)

2 - If you (Decide) to try to play an open evil character, there can be some very good rp out of it, however the con is that where you go and venture out to can have limits. If your Rping an openly evil Zhentrim, you do not want to be "Hanging" out in Baldurs Gate. The risk of you being arrested etc is very real. However it doesnt mean you absolutely can not enter the city. You just have to really think about it. If your banned in the city, and you need to get into the city, the question is how? There are a few ways in the city without having to pass by Fists and Watchmen guards at the gates. Some characters know how. Ask the right people. However dont slip into the city and hang out in the most obvious places like the Wide or Temple or Manaborn Districts. You'll be just asking for trouble. The Lower City by lore is where its more likely to find scumbags so to speak, pirates even. Hide your scry status, use a disguise if your on the most wanted list or something, be immersing, you should be able to blend in with the right crowd if you have put in the effort too.

3 - If your playing a Drow or a black orc and trying to come into the city, you better need your best efforts to remain unseen and to avoid godmodding npcs because realistically, If anyone sees you to include an NPC, theres going to be screaming and calling out for Guards.

4 - A bio with all your in depth Detail information can be submitted to the DMs privately via pm. You could still make a public one lacking of the sensitive details Unless your character is the type they dont care who knows what. Because in all honestly bios do get meta'd sometimes. Like I said before some jerks just cant help themselves.

5 - If your intent to play openly evil, make sure you do your homework. You really have to consider where the character can be safe to linger, where are the areas they really just cant go to without the high risk meeting hostility. Most "Players" that do play evil ingame are not evil at all behind the scene. But with that, they too risk doing "good" things in game for the sake of rp and fun. And that is where you dip into the category of Quality. Can one really separate themselves from their characters or not. Looting in areas where the chance of running into a good align character , one must have their mind set at the ready incase such an encounter happens. Theres ways to act the evil, but leave room for Rp and avoiding making yourself as a player to look like your just an asshat. The Hardcore players that play evil wont step foot in Good Turf and vice versa. And if there happens to be a need to do so, they do it using their brains and not being stupid to just waltz in there killing immersion.

My character Sel working from a tavern in a lawless pirate village has seen some "smart good" looking for rp to "pitiful good" doing everything wrong trying to rp.
I myself gives consideration in a persons gameplay, but sometimes...sometimes...I have to chase them out through Rp because the immersion breaking is just too much. Sel wont walk to Elf Town cause he's known as a pirate by elves. But has he actually been known to commit crimes? Nope, so I have that to walk almost anywhere else. After all, known to bartend in a pirate village is not that bad as being known as a pirate that has raided towns and villages or other ships.

I look at Thayans as yes evil, but BG Thayans are to me, Putting up a façade trying to sleaze their way into politics to gain influence and acceptance all the while walking a thin line to avoid being banished from the city. Doesnt mean they are not enslaving people after dark or practicing evil spells in the basement. So long as they are doing it right and not letting anyone see or find out then hats off to them. But playing a Thayan you surely gonna get some ppl openly showing distaste and dislike. The Thayan pretty much can handle such encounters several ways. Put on a nice smile and handle it like a boss, or walk away and wait to find the person in a secluded area and burn the flesh from their bones when no one looking! Just dont get caught cause you can get the whole faction kicked from the city.

[Zar'shalee]

Are you openly evil? How do you experience that on the server?

Yes, I play drow, priestess of the Spider Queen. I would describe the experience as tedious due to low amount of people who main Underdark characters and if they do they do not play Lolth-sword drow.

Did you create a biography? Did you put in the evil aspects as well? (Alignment, deity, classes)

Nope. I've writen "biography" only retrospectively and I do not see it as something nessesary. If playing secretly evil character I would 100% avoid writing public biography as people will use that knowledge to already put you into some box before they even meet your character in game.

If your evilness can be found on the forums, do you experience metagaming, and how do you experience it?

If you really want to play a secretly evil character I would avoid posting on forum, or make an alternative account not related to your in game character.
And even if you are openly evil character I would also avoid posting on forum about your activities especially if they are related to some wider plot and intrigues.

If you could restart now, how would you recommend playing and roleplaying evil?

I would move in only with already established group of friends and players who are fully dedicated to play evil group. Playing evil character is lonely at times (because you are naturally limited by the zones you can or cannot go) so having a group of friends that are tuned to the same wave as you is a way to go.

Would you prefer openly or covertly playing evil?

100% openly evil. In covert evil it is only a matter of time before you get metagamed (as if intentionally or unintentionally). And investigation of who originally leaked the info into IC only do more harm then good to community in my opinion.

[TheDwarfGristle]

Thank you all very much for your input, and for sharing your experiences.
This is very helpful.