Proposal: Additional Spells for Craft Wand

[BarBearian]

Proposal: Add Animal Friendship, Speak with Dead, Speak with Animal, and Speak with Plants to the list of spells that can be crafted onto wands.

Arguments in Favor:
— Other than the small skill bonus granted by the Speak with spells, no mechanical advantage is being provided
— Spells are purely for RP flavor and would open up additional RP and storytelling opportunities for players (w/ DM support)

Argument Against:
— These spells, and the associated RP, could be considered ‘class defining’ and therefore should be limited to the classes with access to them as part of their spell list
— The server’s limited developer resources should focus on more important priorities (e.g., EE project)

Aside: Obviously this is a self-interested proposal since my PC would directly benefit from access to some of these spells. With that said, I do not see any of the spells listed above as game-breaking or having a material impact on server balance or the RP landscape. Would love to hear other folks thoughts as I am sure I did not capture all of the relevant arguments for and against. Regardless, I completely understand if the DM Team decides to maintain the limitation already in place.

[selhan]

Some of those is already a thing

Not sure about the whole speak with dead one regardless tho, its going to come down to the spell level i believe

[doctorsimon4]

Speak with animal and speak with dead can already be crafted on wands. Unsure about the other 2

[BarBearian]

Wonderful news!

I was going off the list on the wiki: https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Craft_Wand

[doctorsimon4]

Wonderful news!

I was going off the list on the wiki: https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title=Craft_Wand

You want this page https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... aftability

[BarBearian]

Based on that list, the Speak with spells are already available.

Only one that would need approval is Animal Friendship

[renshouj]

My opinion is that the server's roleplay is already so defined by wands that substitute casters entirely, it's kind of sad. Seeing people use wands and scrolls for something that a relevant character is right there to do cheapens the roleplay. Why would you ever need a druid if you can just use wands, why would you ever get a cleric if you can just use a heal pot, why get a wizard when you can cast remove curse from boots you always keep on your inventory, why get another person involved at all when you can do it all yourself and be a one-man-swiss-army-knife, with a pre-loaded response in the form of wands for every RP situation that might show up.

It's true, adding the ones missing from this list would not impact PvE balance (and I say all the above thinking about this type of request in general, considering other spells that one would want added), but I absolutely think it'd further impact the RP landscape for the worse. I'd go further to say some DMs might be tired of seeing plot threads resolved basically solely through wand/scroll usage.

If anything, and this is my opinion obviously, I'd wish to see UMD less popularized.

[DM Mirror]

My opinion is that the server's roleplay is already so defined by wands that substitute casters entirely, it's kind of sad. Seeing people use wands and scrolls for something that a relevant character is right there to do cheapens the roleplay. Why would you ever need a druid if you can just use wands, why would you ever get a cleric if you can just use a heal pot, why get a wizard when you can cast remove curse from boots you always keep on your inventory, why get another person involved at all when you can do it all yourself and be a one-man-swiss-army-knife, with a pre-loaded response in the form of wands for every RP situation that might show up.

It's true, adding the ones missing from this list would not impact PvE balance (and I say all the above thinking about this type of request in general, considering other spells that one would want added), but I absolutely think it'd further impact the RP landscape for the worse. I'd go further to say some DMs might be tired of seeing plot threads resolved basically solely through wand/scroll usage.

If anything, and this is my opinion obviously, I'd wish to see UMD less popularized.

+1
I've been of the same opinion here.

[Steve]

My opinion is that the server's roleplay is already so defined by wands that substitute casters entirely, it's kind of sad. Seeing people use wands and scrolls for something that a relevant character is right there to do cheapens the roleplay. Why would you ever need a druid if you can just use wands, why would you ever get a cleric if you can just use a heal pot, why get a wizard when you can cast remove curse from boots you always keep on your inventory, why get another person involved at all when you can do it all yourself and be a one-man-swiss-army-knife, with a pre-loaded response in the form of wands for every RP situation that might show up.

It's true, adding the ones missing from this list would not impact PvE balance (and I say all the above thinking about this type of request in general, considering other spells that one would want added), but I absolutely think it'd further impact the RP landscape for the worse. I'd go further to say some DMs might be tired of seeing plot threads resolved basically solely through wand/scroll usage.

If anything, and this is my opinion obviously, I'd wish to see UMD less popularized.

I also agree with Jojoel. Even though I tend to maximize UMD on every PC that I can, I also very much dislike how many Classes become devalued by its existence. So while the Server may have been designed for countering UMD proliferation and use, I’d say keeping any “role play” based uses from getting added.

[selhan]

I see a lot of nice good points, and agree to alot of them if this was a perfect world. But the truth of the fact is theres just not enough of these Wizards, Clerics , FS, Druids to go around for be available or even matching alignments etc.

Where can an evil aligned character go to find an "active/available" Priest or Priestess to tag along for a dungeon run or even be around for wards if I was or even offer to pay? Top of my head I just dont see none nor can I think of one specially on my "time zone". Nothing but Tyr's, Selunes, Sunites . Fat chance asking them for a Recitation spell and expecting the full bonus much less an endure element spell.

The game as changed due to population numbers / popularity of class, in my opinion its the reason why most has to resort for being able to pull off solo play tailored around the PVE design. Like any MMO, a player gonna study a boss, its means to attack, how it attacks, its whole routine and then try to 1 of 2 things, be prepared for prevention or the process.

Removing such access to spells only gonna do two things I suspect

1, Ppl gonna rebuild once again to tailor with handling the PVE Content without other class
2, Voice for revert
3, Change Servers

Because theres still not gonna be "available Buffers" around the clock. As much as I would like to be able to dump my UMD and allocate those points else where, with what I do and how I play the game on this server, its was a Necessity for me to have high ranks in it. I was given wands with druid spells like I shown, never once found a need to even use them, thus why they sit in bank for years, because My sort of character and a druid to even be squaded up to do things is something in the rare zone unless the druid is evil aligned and can get drunk off rum lol. Emmanuel the only Druid that my character even manage to get into conversations wit and thats because he use to come by the tavern other then some randos I might meet some along the Trade Way or something in the rarest occasions.

I guess over all, wands like a Smartphone . Although I been meeting a Druid lately for short duration at a time for herbs not their spells, because I can carry the herbs with me .

[renshouj]

Where can an evil aligned character go to find an "active/available" Priest or Priestess to tag along for a dungeon run or even be around for wards if I was or even offer to pay? Top of my head I just dont see none nor can I think of one specially on my "time zone". Nothing but Tyr's, Selunes, Sunites . Fat chance asking them for a Recitation spell and expecting the full bonus much less an endure element spell.

You're missing the point. What I'm talking about is not stuff like Death Ward, IMA, Recitation. It's stuff like Speak with Dead, Stone Tell, Bless Water, Detect Scry, Commune with Nature/Commune, etc etc. Things that are mainly (or even solely) RP functionalities. Not "Buffers", idc about that, it's not about removing PvE-centric buffs, but about not adding more RP-focused spells into consumables. Imagine a wand of Omen of Peril lmao

[Deathgrowl]

I have a potentially hot take: Potions (and especially master alchemist elixirs) are a bigger issue than UMDable wands for matters of trivialising magical effects.

At least UMD requires the user to invest in something! Potions just need to be drunk.

That said, as someone who has far too many wizards (and other casters) in his vault, and have had even more in the past, I also always feel these kinds of things (whether wands, scrolls or potions) reduce the RP value of true casters. Why ask a wizard to prepare teleportation spells if the rogue with literally no magic training can just read a scroll and hit the perfect geographical spot? Why request a cleric Speak with the Dead for an investigation if a swashbuckler can just use a wand with the exact same effect?

I wouldn't nerf UMD as a means to buff oneself. But perhaps I would argue that access to certain scrolls and potions is too great and too cheap. But I don't know how to balance all of this in a way that doesn't feel like we're arbitrarily cutting off some spells just so the casters get their (very) brief moment to shine in between the astonishing battle prowess of the warlocks, rogues and fighters. It has to make sense in-character why some utility spells are less useful for non-casters.

[wangxiuming]

My opinion is that the server's roleplay is already so defined by wands that substitute casters entirely, it's kind of sad. Seeing people use wands and scrolls for something that a relevant character is right there to do cheapens the roleplay. Why would you ever need a druid if you can just use wands, why would you ever get a cleric if you can just use a heal pot, why get a wizard when you can cast remove curse from boots you always keep on your inventory, why get another person involved at all when you can do it all yourself and be a one-man-swiss-army-knife, with a pre-loaded response in the form of wands for every RP situation that might show up.

It's true, adding the ones missing from this list would not impact PvE balance (and I say all the above thinking about this type of request in general, considering other spells that one would want added), but I absolutely think it'd further impact the RP landscape for the worse. I'd go further to say some DMs might be tired of seeing plot threads resolved basically solely through wand/scroll usage.

If anything, and this is my opinion obviously, I'd wish to see UMD less popularized.

+1

[renshouj]

I have a potentially hot take: Potions (and especially master alchemist elixirs) are a bigger issue than UMDable wands for matters of trivialising magical effects.

At least UMD requires the user to invest in something! Potions just need to be drunk.

That said, as someone who has far too many wizards (and other casters) in his vault, and have had even more in the past, I also always feel these kinds of things (whether wands, scrolls or potions) reduce the RP value of true casters. Why ask a wizard to prepare teleportation spells if the rogue with literally no magic training can just read a scroll and hit the perfect geographical spot? Why request a cleric Speak with the Dead for an investigation if a swashbuckler can just use a wand with the exact same effect?

I wouldn't nerf UMD as a means to buff oneself. But perhaps I would argue that access to certain scrolls and potions is too great and too cheap. But I don't know how to balance all of this in a way that doesn't feel like we're arbitrarily cutting off some spells just so the casters get their (very) brief moment to shine in between the astonishing battle prowess of the warlocks, rogues and fighters. It has to make sense in-character why some utility spells are less useful for non-casters.

I mean, yeah, I don't disagree. While it was removed (just recently), we literally had a map that had Commune With Nature mushrooms. For anyone to use. Isn't that a bit insane? Also everyone that needs mindblank is just popping some Juniper Berries as if it's the same thing, because mechanically it is! But in RP it really shouldnt be. Why is a common berry straight from the bush granting a magical mental barrier strong enough to stop fiends from piercing it.

Truly it's a bit more of a systematic issue than just "remove X", it's complicated to even begin to do something about it that also doesn't feel like you're taking too many toys away from people. Many (and I truly mean MANY) discussions have been had, and are often reignited, about this issue, and there are some ways to try and affect it, but yeah, it's complicated.

[selhan]

Those are even more difficult to get a hold of in my opinion. Theres a large array of spells unknown to most thats rp use only. But the same thing stands trying to find a person to gain access to some of those is reaching in the dark void. Omen, Favor spells , status etc . Took me making a mage and cleric to even know some of those things even out there. Like the main reason why most go to characters like Ashenie for her rp services is because 9/10 shes available ig .

Not saying people need to give up RL to be available for such things but we just dont got the numbers where the chance and likeliness of finding those would be always present. Convenience will always outsell anything.

Until we start seeing some neutral shamans or something standing around the clock in a location accessible to all possible characters, people gonna spend and reach for their smart phones if not spam for DM intervention..

That Talona player is quite the established herbilist even tho questionable services, has actually been quite useful, their another one. Winding Water got nuked, , and Ilmater a bit off for some characters so if not by the auction, you can go to the poison lady for bloodstaunch.

Smartphone factor Smartphone lol


UMD Requirement should of been higher But then again, who likes busting chops in a dungeon only to reach the final boss and gets nuked with a death spell upon start of the fight? Players play tailored to whats designed.