How's the Evil RP going?!?

[Akroma666]

Would it help if Evil Minded PCs had a common ground "hang out" place, in order to not be chasing or missing individuals around the Server? Or is that far to OOC for the majority of Evil Minded Characters?

Or, would it help if there was a private guild-like forum that ACTED like an evil-minded grapevine of news and rumors (requiring a written submission/proof that would justify your Characters membership) to generate cross-faction/guild RP in a semi-public manner?

Would it help if there were some "evil aspect" RP storylines coming out of the 1352 Campaign, that Characters could RP with/towards?

Or has it become every person for themselves (and I mean this as an unintentional but resulting paradigm)?

Steve, it's been my opinion that evil is so divided both IC and OOC that no one really wants to work together or meet. I think a few people build alliances, but i don't think it will be as simple as scooping up all the goodies for a lich army raid.

I would find a way to make evil factions want to work together and then the evil rp meeting grounds will come out itself. I think the real problem is with agenda and attitude.

[Steve]

1. Evil-minded most often have no common, IC goal (something evidently needed to be fed to us by DMs, which I'm not preferential to, however, Players simply cannot offer what DMs can).

2. Evil-minded RP could use some avenues to pursue outside the general milieu—apart from what good-minded can get involved in or against.

3. The risk to take by being active evil, and collaborative evil, must see an equal, potential, tangible reward...if success is manager through the RP. This is obviously not an alignment specific issue, however, being active evil not only has less avenues to explore, it can also create a general ostracized result...and really, very few people play on BGTSCC to remain IC, or worse OOC, isolated.

Here are the Areas—public place options—where a PC of the darker mindset could/should find like-minded individuals:

The Swordarm Inn in Roaringshore
The Broken Goblet in Roaringshore
The Blushing Mermaid in Baldur's Gate
The Winding Way in Soubar
Market place in Darkhold

[aaron22]

Come to the Thayan Enclave. We don't judge.

uh about that... i did that once and was killed pretty quickly. it was perfect. i loved the RP and had no problem with it, but may not be the best place for a "hang out" LMAO.


anyway.
i play evil in various forms. I would love to have a place that i could go that i could find others of similar form. with some of my characters personalities it is difficult to form alliances that last very long while maintaining my RP properly. often i am left alone to do things solo and that is a dangerous place because i WANT to RP.

playing evil is my choice. It is exciting and challenging and that is why i do it.


as far as the damwun goes.. if i log khar without others around, her next meeting will be with death in the nexus. she is way too dumb and violent to be out by herself

[Tekill]

What I am about to say has all been discussed before, on these forums...

I want to start by pointing out that Evil RP should not focus on pvp or creating OOC conflict.
Evil acts or events that is not DM controlled really should have cooperation with everyone involved. Especially if you plan on doing it on a regular basis. It will affect your reputation in an out of character. I hate to say it be we have become very touchy with our pvp- especially when we lose (we need to use kid gloves). Also, the more random the exchange/encounter is the more you should play it safe pvp wise. PVP and conflict is still vital – its just when Frequency and randomness are added- use safety wheels.

There has been numerous excuses why evil can not organize as well as the good/neutrals.

1-low evil population (there is enough of us.)

2-Evil players can not get along. (i.e. my god hates your god so I hate you. We do not have to get along– they make it work in the UD- maybe we should find out what works down there and try it on the surface).

3-DM's are not giving enough evil love. (Evil tried to organize before but it is always an uphill battle. In the DM's defense- evil players have a history of being trouble makers, especially re: pvp. Lets have the evil players and DM's hug it out!)

4-OOC dislike about how others RP evil. (meh- discussing this would be opening a can of worms – we all have opinions).

5-Good to evil balance is tipped towards the good (maybe true but it gives evil something to work towards- use it in RP - a common goal that could make enemies unite. Tip it back. I know I'm oversimplifying it but good tends to win in the end, in most fantasy settings so let them have their tar-tar sauce!)

6-Evil does not have the Dukes to provide guidance and leadership to. (In this thread and past threads there was suggestions of a faction that could link other factions- the best suggestion IMO was a Thieves guild. All other factions would hook up with the thieves guild of BG for contracts, intelligence, assassinations, or just hang out in the Thieves Guild karaoke bar and lounge).

I think there really needs to be a way for us to network more. Networking is the take away word here. I sum up all this rambling with- We need to network people! Network!!!

We are just to fractured right now. We need to establish a more present and detailed system for organizing...I mean networking. Set up a thieves guild- maybe have it run by DM's.

We will stay fractured and impotent without this networking.

Random suggestion: As players we can purchase buildings right. Can't we put up our own temples?

Again, what are the drow downstairs doing with their low numbers to accomplish all their wicked evilness? What can we emulate from them?

I have been thinking about what we can do if we do "network" a bit more. I guess it would be about finding ways to convince the others to accomplish our own selfish goals, maybe. Tek'Ill would like to start a kidnapping ring, perhaps....something.

[Steve]

I've tried a number of times to jump start both IC and OOC means in which evil networking can start. I realize many are not interested in RPing with me, nor my Characters, however, I haven't seen anything started by another, work—a network of like minded evils—that lasted longer than half-year, max...yet.

And I've been here on BGTSCC a looooooong time.

I've come to assume that it can only work by starting early, in Character development. Otherwise, Player connection to PC individuality combined with the long road to Level 30, usually turns off any Player from taking a risk with an existing toon. That is why I argue for greater reward for that risk, and unfortunately, that reward can only come from the DM side. I'd be happy to learn—and better to experience first hand —if you can prove me wrong.

And, well...it looks like the one DM willing to give attention to evil-minded PCs has just bit the dust. So it doesn't look good. It would be nice to hear from the Campaign Coordinators at least once in a while, to find out what avenues actually exist in developing storylines, for the Evils.

A guy can dream, right?!?

[Akroma666]

I've tried a number of times to jump start both IC and OOC means in which evil networking can start. I realize many are not interested in RPing with me, nor my Characters, however, I haven't seen anything work that lasted longer than half-year, max...yet.

And I've been here on BGTSCC a looooooong time.

I've come to assume that it can only work by starting early, in Character development. Otherwise, Player connection to PC individuality combined with the long road to Level 30, usually turns off any Player from taking a risk with an existing toon. That is why I argue for greater reward for that risk, and unfortunately, that reward can only come from the DM side. I'd be happy to learn—and better to experience first hand —if you can prove me wrong.

And, well...it looks like the one DM willing to give attention to evil-minded PCs has just bit the dust. So it doesn't look good. It would be nice to hear from the Campaign Coordinators at least once in a while, to find out what avenues actually exist in developing storylines, for the Evils.

A guy can dream, right?!?

Bravo! And +1

[Storm Munin]

Evil on the server have 1345-1351 done this:

1. Created a stalemate over Triel, leaving it a desolate place still years later. (WIN)
2. Lost and retaken Darkhold.
3. Aided Amn in winning the Amn - Baldur's Gate war (Assassinating NPC leader and raided aid caravans).
4. Gained 3 Seats on the Conclave of the City of Dark Weaving (Good 0, Neutral 0).
5. Saved the City of Dark Weaving by divine intervention during the Alhoon War, with the consequence of a population boost in Lolthite fervor.
(With the sorceress toon responsible under death threat from both her guild and the Temple of Lolth as consequence of her independent actions, mind. Evil begets evil?)
6. By deceit caused uprisings vs Eilistraeeans and the public floggings of such faithful.
8. Kidnapped and ransomed several good toons (Surface!)
9. Created NPC halffiends (still waiting for DMs to exploit this though).
10. Innumerable assassinations.
11. Innumerable acts of highway robbery.

The list are far longer than this, many things I am probably unaware of as well.

But lets not say Evil has not had an impact on the server!


As for how to better promote Evil together on the surface I believe we had a good thread going, with little ingame efforts seen by me so far sadly.

I dunno perhaps we, the (sometimes or ever) players of surface Evil, have a hard time being social enough to find stable larger communal relationships.
In a way this however is also at times the curse of team Good.

Perhaps we are too picky about what sort of Evil (race, class e t c) our toons choose to align themselves with?
Honestly, I know most of my evil toons (I) have a prejudice vs cooperating with stupid and wierd Evil.
The rare exception being my quite insane rogue tester character.


/M

[Steve]

being social enough to find stable larger communal relationships.

This. I'm not talking about holding hands during long walks in the park, however, imagine the benefits to RP, especially IG RP, if evil minded PCs congregated in the same place, even just the minority of the time!!

I am pretty certain that even in playing evils, we Players want to share our Characters in direct and indirect social or social-action RP. Even just getting together a group of one-eyed, 9 fingered, unbathed mercs to raid a tomb would be a start. Then, when that "gang" returned for grog, the more insidious minded would join in for larger manifestations of evil action.

But, I say it again: who is willing to risk it?!?

[RamenKing]

Honestly im not even sure how one goes about RPing with evil PCs, outside of OOC PMs and introduction.

[Steve]

Honestly im not even sure how one goes about RPing with evil PCs, outside of OOC PMs and introduction.

A post above, I listed a number of locations currently on BGTSCC where you'd likely find Characters—both PC and NPC—that are evil aligned (as well as free thinking Neutrals). Good aligned would most likely avoid such places, unless in disguise (as I imagine it...though I'm sure through creative RP, there are more reasons).

The Swordarm, for example, has been DM-sanctioned to be a "safe" evil zone, in terms that if Good aligned were found there, their lives would be in jeopardy by the proprietor (not like KOS jeopardy, but certainly, responsible RP required and assumed risks to be upheld).

And of course Darkhold has its own high level of RP responsibility in honoring the setting, the environment.

Sure, this could be said about the entire Server if you wish, but in terms of giving the evil-minded some privacy in order to thrive, the places listed above provide fairly enough to get RP started, and more.

The places, however, remain rather unpopulated. That simply has to change!

[Sputnik]

Honestly im not even sure how one goes about RPing with evil PCs, outside of OOC PMs and introduction.

Well, for starters, not every evil person is an obvious cackling murderkillrape trope.
Most are not, I can assure you. I can also almost guarantee that your character has evil folk in his circle; they are just clever enough to mask their intentions.

The greedy merchant who overcharges people during tough times is a good example of everyday evil that flies beneath the radar of most. Evil folk can be a part of society, can be popular and can even have friends. It's a mindset, rather than rules written in stone.

(Steve addressed the rest quite well)

As to the OP's question, here is my 2cents..

For me, it's been a lot of behind the scenes action. A dash of intrigue and many backroom meetings. Working with others of a like mind.. The pulling strings kind of evil, not so obvious. Watching it all play out has been interesting.

That being said, working with evil PCs can be very challenging. Trust is always an issue.
The problem of "Too many Chiefs, not enough Braves" is prevalent on that side of the alignment fence, as well. A good half of the evil folk I've met think they're King Shit and go to great lengths to prove it. The constant ****-measuring gets old pretty quick.. Talk about narcissist egomaniacs..

If one has the patience and is a decent judge of character, one can wade through the mire of egos and backstabbing to have a good time.

[edited to remove crude language]

[Tekill]

There has been some great examples of evil RP on this server both past and present- no doubt. And I am sure there will be more to come.
There are a lot of spaces where us villains can plot and scheme- also very true. Geography is definitely not an issue.
And it is also true that there various kinds of evil and that there is a certain amount of ego that comes with a lot of evil players. It has been mentioned previously that there is a whole segment of “infiltrator” style evil RP'ers who live among the goodly manipulating and leeching from them from within. Good stuff! That does not need to change.
Some players want to run their specialized evil groups, such as churches, military orders that do not deal with outsiders that much. That's cool too.
I mentioned earlier the pvp rules are set up so we evil types have to rethink how we RP evil – we cant just resort to violence every time. Thugs are fun to RP at times but have short lifespans. It is a different kind of evil RP that is required for this server.

And it is true that the evil players have tried to network in the past but such plans seem to always fail fizzle or fracture (the 3 f's -woo). I think Steve just mentioned probably the main reason for this. It fails because the negative sanctions outweigh the positive rewards in regards to openly RP'ing evil. Not to mention player ego.

I am pretty certain that even in playing evils, we Players want to share our Characters in direct and indirect social or social-action RP. Even just getting together a group of one-eyed, 9 fingered, unbathed mercs to raid a tomb would be a start. Then, when that "gang" returned for grog, the more insidious minded would join in for larger manifestations of evil action.

How do we do this?

Should we try and form another faction like a thieves guild?
For it to succeed would it would need to have a DM organizing it keeping it afloat?
Could we even find a DM willing to do this?
Leadership would have to be fluid – changed fairly often. Or no leaders?
Maybe it would have to be a faction you would not need to join...just show up? A faction that's not a faction- that way it would allow interaction with other factions to be more organic -does that even make sense?

And more specifically -

Banditry/Robbery -How do I rob someone? Do I give them a chance to escape without giving me any gold? I suppose I would need a good disguise- where can I find more info on on using disguises?
Extortion – We would need strong numbers to pose enough of a threat, wouldn’t we?
Pick pocketing only gets you coin right? Do I get experience for being successful? Could I make any gold if I use it a lot- like a lot, a lot?
Assassinations- Has its own section on the PVP rules. Having a “network” thieves guild type thing would really be beneficial to assassins....this wasn't really a question....
Prostitution – c'mon guys its a PG13 server, sheesh! ….But what about escorts?
Spying/treason – money for intelligence. Who wants to know?
Burglary – Would most likely need to be -DM events sneaking into other factions guild houses and stealing from them!
Kid napping ring – ((this is my idea nobody take it without including Tek'Ill)). This is an example of some eville that will need planing. What other evil plots can us players cook up?

[Steve]

I am a strong believer in that every Guild/Faction should be "headed" by a NPC if that Guild/Faction is based in canon Forgotten Lore.

Thieves Guild of Baldur's Gate is an example, with a documented NPC. Knights of the Shield as well.

The reason is so that the DMs have a constant vehicle to give and receive orders/requests/RP from PCs/Players. It also provides consistency and longevity, over relying on a Player to head up a Guild and continuously watch Guilds die when that Player leaves the Server.

Ego amongst Players is a thing, on all sides—we simply need to work together from out a fair bit of OOC shared desire to see our Evils shine in the shadow. But I'm going to say it again: to be courageous enough to take our existing or new Characters to this level of RP, the rewards—let's say instead the possibilities—need to equal if not out weigh the risks.

Yes, DM help is needed. Yes, that will be difficult to get, because 90% of DMs come from long established Good Characters and have most likely been burned by some evil playing Players and really are not interested in helping out. As well, there is the simple fact that DMs are typically the generators or evil NPCs and storylines with Evil to challenge the forces of good—how do Evil PCs help the DMs evil NPCs without generating any perceived favoritism?!

All you need to do is look at how the Server works: a group of Players come together with PCs under relation or shared goal, form a longstanding group or faction, operate together often and tightly, then receive attention, get a private forum, get a Guild House, and have given and generate constant RP. Which is great!!

Evils rarely manage this. And if they do, it remains fractured, such that strife is often what links the factions, if anything.

I mean, you have to give credit to those still playing Thayans and Zhents, because they keep up appearances and really try to represent the Canon in order to have rich RP experiences on BGTSCC.

However, they both need help and need to give "help" to the general evil milieu, I think. Or maybe not help, exactly, if we're all stretched thin and also need to truly represent our Chatacters evil ways, but instead, be given common goals from Storylines and the Server Campaign in order to reliably support a common "domination" and "might makes right" experience and world building agenda.

[aaron22]

But, I say it again: who is willing to risk it?!?

I do everytime i log in.

as far as meeting in those places.. well its not fun to sit in an empty pub for several hours hoping an evil PC metagames enough to see me there. I want to RP, so typically i hang out near the FAI or Eastern farmlands. not all my characters are obviously evil, but some are very much so.

IMHO... i think there needs to be some amount of metagaming to get anything started. at least a time and place to meet. introduce each other. so when we see each other at the FAI or something we can get it going IN GAME. I can see that this is happening right now, right here. but really its all just a few people telling each other they desire to meet.

in a perfect world... a DM or intrepid player could create a scenario that would bring us together in a manner that makes game sense. i would, but i have not any ideas yet.

[DM Aureus]

...
in a perfect world... a DM or intrepid player could create a scenario that would bring us together in a manner that makes game sense. i would, but i have not any ideas yet.

I'll think of some way to get a starting scenario for evil players. Something that can be set up within about 30 minutes, so that I can hop online every now and again and get evil players a bit more organised and going, in a bit of a secret way.

Should anyone have suggestions, I'm open to them. If not, I'll come up with something nice
I'll look to get something started for december.