How to gain a title?

[Ithilan]

In my experience characters that seek IC titles are generally highly oriented towards RP, both within a guild and without. Those type of characters generally tend to rise in their guilds towards being leaders and notable members. I do not think it matters so much if you are a guild leader as much as it is that your character is influential among the PC population and drives RP. Generally guilds are a good vehicle to do that. But overall activity and drive are more an indicator than just being the top of a guild.

Very true, I just wanted to say I hope the premise isnt you have to be in an influential possition within a guild.

[dedude]

Remember it is perfectly viable to have a title without having it added to your mechanical name tag. Depending on the title you probably need DM approval first, but that is much easier than having to change your actual name with all that entails.

If you have been granted a title you can add it as information on your examine-description, if it is something people would know about.

[Ariella]

In my experience characters that seek IC titles are generally highly oriented towards RP, both within a guild and without. Those type of characters generally tend to rise in their guilds towards being leaders and notable members. I do not think it matters so much if you are a guild leader as much as it is that your character is influential among the PC population and drives RP. Generally guilds are a good vehicle to do that. But overall activity and drive are more an indicator than just being the top of a guild.

This is pretty much it, there are people without guild leadership who have titles, one is even religion based. Just drive rp and be inclusive, it might take a while but youll get there. Others may have other rp conditions e.g nobility requiring oath of fealty, the dm team will tell you those if you pm them though.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

Are there rules on using disguise to rename you as....example.... Dreadlord of Bane...for RP use?

The DM's PMed me a long time ago and said no you are not allowed to use the disguise system to give yourself a title.

At that time they also told me that "The" signifies an honorary and it is not allowed but "of" is allowed. Currently though the DM's are discussing if "of" is allowed anymore. It seems English might be a no no but French "de" or German "von" is allowed. This has me confused as either English is the official common thus other languages would be meta or they are treated as dialects of common thus should be treated the same as English. The only other option would be to treat them as gibberish which would be highly immersion breaking as characters named "El Banyo es Enfuego" or "Ich bin Kaiser" are allowed by such a concept.

[Steve]

Are there rules on using disguise to rename you as....example.... Dreadlord of Bane...for RP use?

The DM's PMed me a long time ago and said no you are not allowed to use the disguise system to give yourself a title.

At that time they also told me that "The" signifies an honorary and it is not allowed but "of" is allowed. Currently though the DM's are discussing if "of" is allowed anymore. It seems English might be a no no but French "de" or German "von" is allowed. This has me confused as either English is the official common thus other languages would be meta or they are treated as dialects of common thus should be treated the same as English. The only other option would be to treat them as gibberish which would be highly immersion breaking as characters named "El Banyo es Enfuego" or "Ich bin Kaiser" are allowed by such a concept.

It's a puzzle.

Because IC, your toon can call itself ANYTHING it wants to, disguised (mechanically) or not. And, considering that Name Tags are considered OOC information—with the idea that your toon never knows the name of another toon unless you have PROOF they were introduced...which can also be with an alias—does it really matter now-a-days what are Characters are named?

As example, my character Baggar refers to himself as Baggar of Clan Orcslayer. But I do not expect that to become his Name Tag or Title, and thus, I'm content to have him named Baggar Orcslayer.

Well, it does matter. Both for practical/mechanical reasons—identifying a Character that you SHOULD know but has the same appearance/face as a tens of other Toons—but also for the fact that getting a title has always been see as a Reward for good RP.

Let me give you an example: Captain Mealir Ostirel. When I was a DM, I petitioned for Valefort to receive the title Captain, all without his own knowledge. I had not only RP'd with him player side for years, but as a DM, witnessed his great RP and direction as the actual Captain of the Whistling Wanderess. So, as you can imagine, the DM team voted unanimously to grant that title of Captain to the character, as a reward to Valefort, for his long term and invested RP.

So Titles really do matter, because it promotes for Players to remain invested in a Character for the long term, and, for that Character to fulfill a role outside of just Being.

On a personal note, I do think that names such as Steve of Waterdeep, would be a suitable name and allowable. However, if you look at history, you'll see that those individuals that have made it into the history books ACTUALLY made some difference IN history. Otherwise, unknown peoples ended up with surnames that are mashups of actual professions, for example, you can read about it hear.

[Juramenta]

At that time they also told me that "The" signifies an honorary and it is not allowed but "of" is allowed. Currently though the DM's are discussing if "of" is allowed anymore. It seems English might be a no no but French "de" or German "von" is allowed. This has me confused as either English is the official common thus other languages would be meta or they are treated as dialects of common thus should be treated the same as English. The only other option would be to treat them as gibberish which would be highly immersion breaking as characters named "El Banyo es Enfuego" or "Ich bin Kaiser" are allowed by such a concept.

Stop telling them my super secret back-up plan if I would ever fail to achieve a title!

[Juramenta]

the progression would be nice if it follows steps
for example :

lady
sir
milady
priestess
noble
captain
knight
baron
baroness
lord
Dreadlord
Overlord
Shadowlord
Duke


lets say 1 year active increase, or 6 month active can gain 1 level increase in title. would give a long term progression and oversight of what a character might become, provided the character follows the other rules and criteria that the DM wants them to be.

in real life example is certificate :

Diploma or A level took 2 years
Degree took 3-5 years
Masters will take another 2 years
Doctrate another 2-4 years
Associate professor another 2
Professor another 2
lastly Nobel prize if lifetime dedication

just my two cents on this idea ^_^

I agree that gaining a title when it is hard to achieve definitely gives you a better feel of achievement.
Linking it to active time might be hard though. Are you considered active when you play daily, weekly or does it only count when you manage to draw other player's into rp?
Think linking unofficial player rep instead of years would be a good idea as well.
Like Steve said about Valefort, even when he did it from a DM position.

Ithilan made a good point about being active yet not involved with DM storylines.
Wouldn't it be nice if there was a system where player's are able to promote each other?
You cannot expect the DM's to follow someone entire progress during it's time on the server, but other player's can. So if there was a system where we could promote someone and the DM's would then get a notification of it. They can then decide to focus a bit more on said person to see if they agree as well.
That way the player's who are active yet not always in the spotlight are able to gain a title without requesting one themselves.

Even when a guild only promoted each other it wouldn't be a problem because the DM's still decide if it is truly earned.

I am saying this not for me. I am bold enough that when I want something I do not only want it today, I want it yesterday. Screaming it from every roof untill I cannot be ignored anymore.
But if titles are being seen as a truly epic achievement instead of a really fun goal for all active characters te achieve, I rather want someone who truly deserves it.
You only get the people who truly deserve it if you involve everyone and not only those who are in the spotlight.
At least that is my take on it after reading everyone's opinions on it.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

The problem with titles being something determined by DM's is that it becomes "all who you know". A player that RP's with people at 2 am every night when no DM's are on ever for 5 years straight has virtually no chance of getting a title even if they request it. A player that RP's with a character that happens to be controlled by a DM will get pushed through the pipeline for a title really quickly. Yes the theory is that forum RP counts too but in reality DM's do not generally have time to read through thousands of posts and trying to figure out if that player posted it all in one subforum or six different subforums. . . A good example of which would be Kraak Helzaks RP getting declined due to having too few active players during the siege of BG. I ended up PMing the DM team and forwarding screenshots and a dozen threads and PM's to prove we were active and trying. A day late and a dollar short as they say since the event series ended. Not anything solvable really but definitely a problem with the system.

[Calodan]

The problem with titles being something determined by DM's is that it becomes "all who you know". A player that RP's with people at 2 am every night when no DM's are on ever for 5 years straight has virtually no chance of getting a title even if they request it. A player that RP's with a character that happens to be controlled by a DM will get pushed through the pipeline for a title really quickly. Yes the theory is that forum RP counts too but in reality DM's do not generally have time to read through thousands of posts and trying to figure out if that player posted it all in one subforum or six different subforums. . . A good example of which would be Kraak Helzaks RP getting declined due to having too few active players during the siege of BG. I ended up PMing the DM team and forwarding screenshots and a dozen threads and PM's to prove we were active and trying. A day late and a dollar short as they say since the event series ended. Not anything solvable really but definitely a problem with the system.

I just do not understand why you were denied on the siege RP. HOV had 2 members for the most part at the time of the siege. Yes we had 4 or so for a good portion of the server mega plot that year but at the end it was me and MedalofValor all we did was show up. Was pretty easy actually. I know Kraak had a feed into the warcouncil at the time because Lord Revenark was a member. From what I understood in much of our planning as the war council was to include dwarven militia to help defend the gate as well. We were depending in the sturdiness of Kraak fighters to aid the war effort at the time. However just because I do not understand does not mean you are not right or I am right either way it just seems odd because I participated in a lot of that RP forum or otherwise and I was but one person. I can not logically see how multiple people could not realize their RP during that time. Shows what I know I guess.......

[Ithilan]

The problem with titles being something determined by DM's is that it becomes "all who you know". A player that RP's with people at 2 am every night when no DM's are on ever for 5 years straight has virtually no chance of getting a title even if they request it. A player that RP's with a character that happens to be controlled by a DM will get pushed through the pipeline for a title really quickly. Yes the theory is that forum RP counts too but in reality DM's do not generally have time to read through thousands of posts and trying to figure out if that player posted it all in one subforum or six different subforums. . . A good example of which would be Kraak Helzaks RP getting declined due to having too few active players during the siege of BG. I ended up PMing the DM team and forwarding screenshots and a dozen threads and PM's to prove we were active and trying. A day late and a dollar short as they say since the event series ended. Not anything solvable really but definitely a problem with the system.

This has always been the problem and will always be the problem, we can not expect absolute neutrality from the team and wont ever get it, so friendly relations, time zones, guild memberships or what not will factor in to the decisions. Much like Steve writes above with the decision of Maelir, he went out of his way to reward Valefort and though that is completely justified and I am not disputing the contribution of X player or character, it is the core of the issue for me. There are DMs who are focussed heavily on a selective group of players and drawn towards them, this is perpetual in NWN1 & 2 and wont change ever. Which means the staff gravitate more towards the people that they interact with frequently or particulary enjoy, deliberately or not they contribute heavily towards X characters progression towards fame and reknown, in their given niche of the server.

Then we fast forward 8 hours and watch the DMs and the player go to bed, a bunch of unknown misfits log on in the morning hours and saunter around and create memorable RP interactions with eachother while noone is around to see it or hear of it, since neither of the players are outspoken in the forums or post very much and when they do, its skipped over and disregarded as that "unknown guy".

This is very real and always has been, even the european based DMs are in sync with the US player base and though I do like a majority of our current staff (and know I have not been around the past 2 weeks) I can understand the frustrations of team evil on many parameters, since most of the active staff have ongoing plots with a selective group of players usually and the conclussions to these things seem neverending, which is not necesarilly bad, but when the trend is you have 5 events for one guild in a week and 0 for any other, I think there are problems to detect. I just hope it doesnt spiral out of control, but this helps reinforce the staff side impression of X players being exceptional and while these people are given the chance to have an actual impact on the world around them, others might not be and at the end of the day, that sounds like a premise for being granted a title. So as I see it, the DMs choose very much whom is eligible and fit for it based on criterias that they help the player to fufill themselves.

I find it flawed and always have. But I am also at odds with titles in the first place and find it basically OOC vanity since the format is you make the request (unless you are someones favored protege apparently) purely OOC and that for me breaks the immersion of it and makes me just roll my eyes OOCly while bending my head around it ICly, do I acknowledge the guy with a flashy title in his name or not, is it self proclaimed, where is the duchal announcement of nobility being granted, where is the usually courtly procedures, oaths sworn, fealty declared etc. or is this just another of the many I meet that introduce themselves so diligently by title, station, occopation or achievements. My character wouldnt be able to tell the difference and so I largely ignore them.

Titles on this server reaks of OOC vanity to me and lacks IC immersion in the given format. But what puts me off really is how selective it is at the moment, I could go in depth with a lot of things, but I dont feel like stepping on more toes than I do with this post already.

How do you on the staff differ between all of these things? Whom is eligible for item rewards through forum RP, who gets titles for their OOC inquiries etc. etc. its a headache I can do without, but the dangerous word here is of course favortism and it will occur regardless of intentions.

What im afraid of is just that its spiralling more in one direction than another, as it has many times in the past as well. But for now we dont just have two title holders that all the DMs chase after, lets hope it wont ever succumb to that again.

[kleomenes]

I ended up PMing the DM team and forwarding screenshots and a dozen threads and PM's to prove we were active and trying.

This sort of makes me think of the most recent request I submitted, where I did this element with my first PM. I think its the only fair way a request system can work - that players have to do some legwork to provide evidence of the RP they base their request on.

Providing evidence of RP in documentary form (screenshots, RP posts etc) is something available to all players whatever their timezone, and provides something objective for DMs to assess. Which is a way to precisely to avoid what you are suggesting, that the RP exposure of a given player can swing the process. (Although I do think the whole "who players play with" thing is a bit off base. I think more commonly than who people play with, what skews requests is what timezones DMs are active on and how often players actually tap them up for input. I know I rarely talk to DMs IG but some people seem to make requests a lot that way)

What it requires is players being in the habit of documenting their RP. Perhaps because I play in an intrigue guild with a lot of RP happening behind the scenes, I have that habit anyway and so I do not find it such a burden. I realise thats pretty subjective.

Still, I know its a drag. That PM I refer to above took me a couple of hours to compile

[Vogar Eol]

Recently, I was fooling around the on my lowbie Bard for fun. I ended up pooling together a group of some seven lowbies following him around leveling. I had met them all separately over the previous few days and he introduced himself as "Bob".

So in the larger group, when a new face asked him his name... He said, "Call me Bob". I used the disguise to change his name to just that, Bob. We ran around for a while killing things, Bob leading the charge with songs and snark.

We eventually came upon the Wrymling in second level of Hilltop Ruins. No one else really could hit it due to having inferior gear, but Bob could. He killed it and promptly stated, "Hence forth, you all shall call me 'Bob, Slayer of Wyrmlings'." Then using disguise, I changed his name exactly to that.

Everyone was having a blast. In OOC I received quite a few tells saying how hilarious it was. I even got a tell from "Lord Cold Shoulder" (or whatever he calls himself, lol). He loved the use of Bob... just from seeing it on the player Scry list. We even named Wombatlord's Elf Wizard "Fingers", because he was picking locks and casting spells. He used disguises to tag himself with that nickname too.

An important point is these were just temporary things used to accentuate the RP, however. I eventually RCR'ed "Bob", and several players were sad to see him go. All because of some RP, disguises, and a couple fake titles and nicknames.

[Xanfyrst]

Took me 2 years in undercover in an enemy guild to get my Zhentarim character a title. As is usual with me, I didn't involve the DM team much, but tried to involve as many layers in as many ways as possible. In the end I guess the result spoke for itself.

On the other hand, I have seen at least two characters get a title for far far less work than others who never received that honour. Always puzzled me how that worked.

[Vogar Eol]

I hear you Xanfyrst. I did similar on Aertheca server in NWN1. Took me three years of IC reputation farming, including paying rookies to run up to me with fake messages saying things like "Lord Eol, urgent message from the Sharkuu Ambassador!". Was too much work for me to attempt again, and political intrigue tends to make OOC enemies...

Tell a lie often enough, eventually reality is shaped and it becomes the truth.

[DM Dialectic]

I recommend just PMing the DM Team if you have questions about getting a title for your character. There is a lot of incorrect information in this thread as well as long out of date information, if it ever was accurate, regarding why titles were or were not awarded in the past and how the DM Team takes into account and records RP as such.

If you have a complaint as to why someone did not receive a title and you think should have (or the inverse situation of received a title and you think should not have), please PM the DM Team as well describing the circumstance. If you have a process complaint on how titles are offered by the DM Team, please PM the DM Team as well.