New Players / Player Retention and "getting the word out" about BGTSCC

[Ghost]

I recommend good faith introspection as to why players are quitting in the first place. Focus on marketing once you’ve stopped the bleeding and have a product that is conducive to player retention.

People quit because they can't bully others in PvP as they please without consequence.
People quit because they get harassed and bullied into PvP situations they don't want to be in and don't report it.

People quit because they aren't allowed to force their conflict narratives on others.
People quit because someone is trying to force them into RP they don't want to be in and don't report it.

People quit because they don't want to respect the setting.
People quit because others disregard the setting, godmode and metagame.

People quit because they perceive favouritism when they get consequences for their reported rulebreaking.
People quit because they are victims of rulebreaking and don't want to report it.

People quit because they make requests with unreasonable expectations that get rejected.
People quit because they don't want to make requests to move their character's plans forward.

Also, people quit because it's an almost 17 year old game and there are other games they want to play.

[Zanniej]

I had this topic in the back of my mind, because I applaud such initiatives. Also, I love the people bringing a positive outlook and trying to make this a better server. I appreciate the effort to make it a positive thing happening. It's one thing to be able to flag issues and challenges, another all together to bring positive change.

I'm going to preface this with stating my "role". I am currently the owner of this server. Name on the tin. Not much more. I am not leadership, and don't act as such. I'm just a failsafe, and a bit nosy at times. I love this server, and do what I can to keep it going. But I currently have no role in the server direction or leadership.

Having said that, I do have some ability to help facilitate change, and will always gladly do so. My personal experience is that, if you put in the work, and try to bring change in a positive way, you can get quite far (I feel it's how I became forum developer, moderator, admin and eventually owner of this server). Antagonistic behaviour will quite often backfire, as apart from doing all the work on your own, you will always need others when working on a collaborative project. And since I consider this server property of the community, I definitely see this as a collaborative project.

I still need to fully go through this topic, to see the suggestions given, and see where I can help in making them possible. But I will help wherever I can

[Rinzler]

Forgive me, Ghost. I forgot you have all the answers and are never wrong about anything.

[DaloLorn]

As opposed to you, who have all the answers, are never wrong about anything, and don't bother to share your wisdom?

[Ghost]

Forgive me, Ghost. I forgot you have all the answers and are never wrong about anything.

Resorting to personal attacks only shows you have no response of reason.

[DaloLorn]

Forgive me, Ghost. I forgot you have all the answers and are never wrong about anything.

Resorting to personal attacks only shows you have no response of reason.

It's worse than that. He has a response, but he doesn't care to offer it, and just sticks around in forums and Discord(s) to dwell on past injuries. Same reason Bregan's giving Malodia's surface raids a wide berth, despite regular status updates showing Tekill's last resort is actually working out.

[Avanos]

Sometimes I think that people quit because a DM will tell them:

"as a dm, I'll 100% support it too"

Then they get crickets?

But I think a better solution would be:

Gather a group of players + dms who are willing to have a reasonable discussion about this.
Make a private discord for those individuals.
Have the discussion, come up with a plan and act on that plan in order to market it to the D&D community.

Personally I think that negative posts like this are also enough to turn people away. But who am I to say?
I'm just a filthy cringe pvp monger that wants to bully others in pvp as I please without consequence.

[Avanos]

It all boils down to lack of leadership, it's a pretty easy solution, change server ownership.

Before letting it die might as well give it to someone that wants to do something with it and has the skillset to see it through.

I don't mean me, but like, AoS would probably take that offer faster than you can say "ded"

Of course then you have to contend with all the people arm chairing their refusals because of a decade of personal dramas but at the end of the day, are they doing anything about it?

I don't mean me, but like, AoS would probably take that offer faster than you can say "ded"

Flat NO.

He had his chance.. shouldn't have squandered it.

[Steve]

Please, can you all not take this to a personal level? You see what the thread title is. Have some respect, and if you have some issue you need to vent, start your own thread.

Or better yet, take it to a private discussion. Cheers.

[Tekill]

I do not think we should STFU, per se....
But leaning into our personal prejudices to gripe at each other certainly wont solve anything. We have tried it, remember?
Didn't work!

Someone said, (was it Steve?) and I am badly paraphrasing here - that there should be enough players or whoever around that are willing to actually invest some of their OOC time to volunteer and try to make a difference. Perhaps a group of volunteers can be organized who would work closely with DMs/Decision Makers to try and come up with some ideas for change/improvements that would draw new and old players.
A sort of Think Tank. They would have their work cut out for them but it might be interesting.

I have tried other servers and although there are some aspects that really irritate me about BGTSCC, I think I still like this server the best. I think people out there are missing out on the fun.

[Avanos]

I'm making two videos for bgtscc..

A secret one that you know about.. and a super evil RP trailer..
You should be a part of it sir tek of kill.

[Ravial]

Frankly, a game being old didn't stop Jedi Knight: Academy multiplayer community from remaining and going strong.

It's not a matter of age but quality. Nwn2 has trash-quality source code but it's something we have to live with and, seeing how the server developed, contended with it quite well.


People usually remain in the game if they have friends and encounter a friendly attitude. The server itself is not bad. Heck, 8 years ago it was by far more bare-bones than it is currently. It's a community problem, not a game problem.

[selhan]

idk about this discussion anymore , i mean like i said there was 58 online this past weekend, that seems good in my opinion. Will it be 58 constant each day doubtful but will just have to see what the numbers look like next weekend . I do know there is players coming from other servers and a few brand new ppl with some returning names . I think we can rule out critical status theory but still not the best status.

[Zanniej]

I'm happy to see so many people still so passionate about this game, server and community. I just hope we can all direct that energy to coming up with good ideas, instead of directing it against each other.

While it's certainly valuable to target problem areas, without (someone) offering some sort of proposed solution, it is little more than complaining. And of course people should be able to complain, but if I'm reading it right, Steve's intention of this topic is to bring positive change, and not to vent and complain.

A couple of challenges that I've read so far:

• There is a blockage of people seeing, and picking up this very old game.
• Lack of coding devs

A couple of ideas that I've read so far:

• Piggy-back on recent movies
• Creating a Reddit community
• Forum make-over
• Media ads
• Videos
• Word of mouth

I've also listed the more specific suggestions here:

• Remove unused assets or assets which are less popular to reduce the size of BGTSCC download and make it take less space on disk
• Redesign areas and flow to be more navigable, easier to "read", and generally more friendly to new players
• Simplify/streamline UI to avoid overwhelming new players
• Prune gameplay systems to remove things which do not see much use and are complicated
• Continue improving "Recommend" choices to make the default options a playable build
• Rebalance to make powerbuilding less useful
• Remove RCR so veteran players don't skip the low levels
• Increase incentives to RCR so veteran players will have more mid-level characters instead of all epics
• Slow down leveling speed so that PCs are better spread across the level range, making it easier for players of all levels to find a group
• Dramatically increase leveling speed so new players can get to 30 easily
• Get rid of all grandfathered gear bonuses so new players feel they're on level ground with veteran players
• Loot wipe or downgrade existing items so new players feel like they're on level ground with veteran players
• Make looting significantly easier so new players can quickly get on level ground with veteran players
• Encourage new-player friendly guilds with roles for new and low-level PCs that empower those PCs to have an impact in the world
• Less big plots, more everyday adventures
• Steve's sharable promo-text
• Create a front page for our forum

I could also quote this entire post by Steve as a directional thought for advertising.


One thing I certainly want to do on short notice, is creating a new front page for our community. But I could use some help with that. Especially with the content of the page, but I'll take whatever help I can get. Steve's example might be a good baseline.


Apart from that, the primary thing is that we need people who are willing and able to carry some of these things. I'd love to enable people trying to bring positive changes, and will gladly work with anyone trying to make them.

I will also see where I can add a bit more myself.

[whatsittoya]

Widen the gap between party member levels before they start getting experience penalties (or no experience at all) which feeds into the next idea,

which is to devise some method through which higher level characters can mentor lower level characters


I have turned down dozens of adventures because of the above penalty.